. . . to expect a bit more help in children's ward?

[TiredStressedFrustrated]

DD (18 months) was admitted to hospital yesterday (sent to A&E by GP due to fast, shallow breathing and high heart rate, but dehydrated, all as a result of upper respiratory tract infection and not being able to keep any fluids/food/calpol down). Since we've been here, I've been really dismayed at how hands-off everyone is - I've been handed a syringe and told to get eight syringes of water into DD every hour overnight, I was handed a plastic cup and told to get a pee sample (this has proved impossible, the tiny pee that she did I missed and it was absorbed into her nappy, even when she threw up everywhere, housekeeping handed me a pack of wipes and said "are you okay cleaning the floor up with these?" - this is while I was holding a very upset toddler covered in vomit.

Now don't get me wrong - DD is my responsibility and of course I want to look after her, clean up after her etc. It just feels like there's no support from the hospital staff at all - they just hand you the equipment for whatever needs doing and expect you to do it all, whilst they dip in and out and take obs every few hours.

Is this normal? I'm struggling to get DD to take the syringes but they just say "oh dear . . . " I haven't been able to get a urine sample but they tell me really need it so keep trying . . . I don't know. Maybe I'm just tired and stressed but I feel like we're just muddling through ourselves and we may as well be at home

Well, next time anybody asks you to clean up the vomit the answer is obviously no! You can’t, they need to do their job!

Ask for some apple juice instead of water? We were told by staff at the hospital we were in for DS that that's the go to for dehydration. Also I'd try her own cup that she's used to rather than a syringe. Things are strange enough for her as it is without having a syringe shoved in her mouth. They probably want you to use a syringe so you can measure how much she's taking but if you roughly know how much is in the cup that should be enough. Have you brought her buggy, could you go for a little walk? Take the juice with you?

There's no excuse for them not helping you when she was sick, I'd mention that to the ward supervisor.

Have you had a break op?

Yes cross posted about the urine pad realise you have to get an uncontaminated sample. That is tricky, I have done it myself but it was a boy and he was two.

I'm not sure you are still there hon, but you might try contacting the patient advice and liason service if they have one at your hospital.

It's different from making a formal complaint as they will often negotiate with staff for you whilst you are still there.

In my experience changes are made as soon as they intervene.

You are in a vulnerable situatoin and need some support you must be so worried.

Try to google PALS with your hospital name. Hope you have one.

@NonBinaryNumbers

My DC got a little plastic bag to stick around the genital area. You then put the nappy on as usual, but the wee is collected in the bag for the urine sample. Maybe ask if they can give you one of those? Getting a toddler to pee in a cup sounds impossible!

Sometimes they want what they consider a "clean sample". Apparently a cup that has potentially had all sorts of fingers in it is considered a "clean sample" but a collection bag isn't.

I have no idea why. (Sat for hours trying to catch one from ds who waited until Inleft him alone while I had to go to the bathroom)

When my 5 year old was in for a week my MIL who is a former nurse said she was very shocked by the lack of nursing care. Not the fault of the staff, just a total change in culture I think - she said 30 years ago parents would not have been on the ward as much so nurses did everyhing.

I felt like you OP I was a bit sad and distressed by lack of nursing care.

As a veteran of many different childrens wards (ds now too old for them) it always seemed me that childrens wards are not staffed to function unless parents are able to stay and are hands on.

I was OK with changing ds's bed when he puked over it as it meant it was done straight away rather than waiting for a nurse. I was given his meds and tubbe feed stuff - I do it at home anyway so no big deal, if Id escaped for a shower or meal then staff did it. But I was always asked by the admitting nurse if I would do "cares" and said yes.

Thanks for sharing advice and experiences, everyone. I think I felt a bit overwhelmed earlier - almost as if I had several near-impossible tasks to complete and was failing at every single one of them!

I totally get that parents should be doing the care - I want to, she's my DD - it just seemed like I was being handed things to use and given instructions left right and centre and it was a bit "okay, this is a lot, we came here for help but it would be easier at home . . . "

She's still very poorly; I'm thinking we're here for another night

@TiredStressedFrustrated

Thanks for sharing advice and experiences, everyone. I think I felt a bit overwhelmed earlier - almost as if I had several near-impossible tasks to complete and was failing at every single one of them!

I totally get that parents should be doing the care - I want to, she's my DD - it just seemed like I was being handed things to use and given instructions left right and centre and it was a bit "okay, this is a lot, we came here for help but it would be easier at home . . . "

She's still very poorly; I'm thinking we're here for another night

Sorry to hear she's not better, have the talked about a cannula for IV fluids? Might be easier and if she needs IV antibiotics they can use it for that too.

Cleaning the floor is not your job.

The rest…

I remember being crouched on a dirty bathroom floor time after having set up my toddlers portable folding potty because she was insistent that was how she try to go, so then I would have to practically lay on the hospital floor holding the cup trying to get it in the right spot to catch. Then of course she wouldn’t go because she won’t go in strange circumstances. It took most of a day. A nurse would have had no chance at all.

There have been other admissions where care has fallen to me even as dd has gotten older. It’s never been about the staff though, it’s been about dd. Sometimes she will even ask if mom can do something instead of a nurse.

Being in the hospital with your child is nothing short of exhausting. There is just no way around it. You are emotionally stressed and there are crazy demands placed upon you. I think it’s easier to get through if people just admit that it’s hard.

Whenever I have seen cleaners in hospital they have had gloves and a gown on. Did they even offer you gloves or a gown or did they just expect you to kneel on a hospital floor on God knows what and wipe the floor with bare hands? All while trying to comfort a poorly, upset toddler. Absolutely disgusting. No wonder NHS hospitals are so grubby, cleaning needs to be done properly, not by patient's parents FFS.

Hope your DD feels better soon

My experience of getting a 'clean catch' sample from an 8 month old, 18 month old and 2 1/2 year old (same child, different times): I wanted to be given a special parenting prize afterwards. It really felt like an achievement that deserved external recognition. It is SO hard to do. At 8 months, we basically opened the cup placed it over her uretha and put the nappy on over it. When we saw she was peeing, we quickly grabbed the cup to ensure some drips stayed in. Older, sat her on potty in front of Peppa pig with cup with lid off in centre of potty: when she eventually peed, put hand in to steady cup. She'd never been on a potty before but the tv helped! I thought we'd lost most of it but got enough. Finally, had her on toilet and put pot in: this required a second parent on hand to steady her. Again, they don't need much, but they need a 'clean catch' so straight into the cup.

We gave apple juice, when she was very very little and we were admitted she was on a drip. I think you should consider asking about that, though it is really unpleasant.

Its v hard, esp if you're there solo. I think in general though its 'normal' except the vomit, I'm in a different country and everything you've described would be pretty standard except I'd expect to see the doctor at least twice a day. Think of it in terms of adults: an adult would be asked to provide a urine sample, would be given drinks and told to take them, same with food. The nurses would do obs, medication, etc. The parent is there to provide that extra 'care' that kids can't do for themselves.

Its really hard though OP, I think sometimes you do need to push back: if they want you to do something hourly overnight I'd make the point its not possible for you to care for her if you get no sleep, and to ask if someone can do it for certain hours so you can rest. Spell out the problems you're having. Ask for juice or lollies or ice chips, flag your fears about dehydration, esp if she's not producing urine (though I appreciate the main issue might be catching it!) Its always rubbish being in hospital so I hope she feels better soon.

If the urine is vital- they could still do an in out catheter- although that can be distressing to an older toddler.

Gas is your friend in this situation. To be honest I don’t believe there’s a lot of difference between trying to catch it in a cup and the stick on sterile bag when it comes to a toddler for a clean catch. Immobile babies, you can use a carefully positioned piece of sterile cotton if needing a culture.

There’s no way I’d be cleaning up vomit or diarrhoea. Cleaning up my child, yes, cleaning the surroundings, no. Doing the rest is fairly reasonable, you don’t stop being a parent because your child’s in hospital. If you were at home you’d be doing things around the clock when they are ill (ask any single parent) so that doesn’t change. Being in hospital with a child is utterly exhausting. The reality is if for whatever reason you can’t get fluid into them and it comes to a point then that’s okay as you are in the right place for the staff to do their job and they’ll put in a line and get fluid in. That’s what they are there for, to step in if necessary with medical care if required, not to dither about trying to play aeroplanes trying to get it in orally. That sort of stuff stresses kids when strangers try and push it so parents just have to dig deep and go the mile and then essentially someone will step in if that fails.

@Wondergirl100 but nurses now are expected to take a much larger role, I know a nurse of 34 years who always gets cross when modern nurses are compared to older nurses, nurses now take on much of a doctors role which certainly wasn’t the case even not that long ago.

@TiredStressedFrustrated one of the posters explained how to use the syringe to dribble the water it’s quite effective if she will let you. If you have a spare, let her see you drinking from it and act excited and curious. Also agree apple juice or squash will help. A carton with a straw also might help. I hope she gets better and you get some rest. X

Literally my EXACT experience on paeds ward over the weekend. I asked for discharge as i was doing everything myself and i said i would rather do it at home.

Sounds like every time we have stayed in hospital since our DD was 4 months to now at 12. She is a frequent flyer!

Sadly it feels like you are on your own when you take your child to hospital even down to giving medication such as anti epileptic s in our case. Our DD is severely disabled and they don't even provide schooling which long term by children get.

I hope your child is better soon and you can leave asap.

OP if you can't get the fluids in her, the next step might be and NG tube or IV fluids.

One of my kids had similar a good few years ago.

It is absolutely normal, all of the above. You shouldn't have to clear up the sick though, that's unfair.

12years that is

I've had a lot of experiences of this with my DD who was in a lot between 1-3 with sepsis and tonsilitis. The worst thing I found was lack of communication. Never told anything about what was happening or why, just left to sit for hours and hours waiting for someone to tell us something and if I went proactively to the nurses station to ask I was told to go back to the room.

Sounds normal to be honest. Staffing levels are dreadful. Worse at the moment.

I do wonder what they'd do if you couldn't be there!

Similar here.

I was given no information. Totally left alone.

Couldn’t leave my little one as there was no one to be with him so ended up not eating or drinking a single thing from Sunday midnight until Wednesday evening when we were allowed home.

I wasn’t aware of an apparent parents area with tea & coffee but no milk, you have to provide your own. No one told me. No one. As I couldn’t leave my child, i wasn’t told anything. I wasn’t offered anything at all when they came round with bits of food for my child.

No sleep as he was crying in pain for 48 hours, then I was so stressed I couldn’t take my eyes off him breathing when he finally got some sleep.

He needed IV fluids & pain relief. There was NO Drs available to prescribe either for 12 hours so he had nothing, no fluids for over 18 hours and I was told I could not give him any of the calpol or ibuprofen that I had in my bag as it had not been prescribed.
So he sobbed in pain and got no fluids. ( Drs we’re all in theatre all night apparently so none available.)

I wrote a long email of complaint because there were numerous failings. I never got an acknowledgment nor any answer.

Specialist children’s hospital too.
Makes me furious thinking about it.

@imaginethemdragons

Bloody hell that's awful.

Ask for a cleaner to be called next time they ask you to clean the floor, OP! I can’t believe they would ask you to clean it yourself with wipes.

@imaginethemdragons

Similar here.

I was given no information. Totally left alone.

Couldn’t leave my little one as there was no one to be with him so ended up not eating or drinking a single thing from Sunday midnight until Wednesday evening when we were allowed home.

I wasn’t aware of an apparent parents area with tea & coffee but no milk, you have to provide your own. No one told me. No one. As I couldn’t leave my child, i wasn’t told anything. I wasn’t offered anything at all when they came round with bits of food for my child.

No sleep as he was crying in pain for 48 hours, then I was so stressed I couldn’t take my eyes off him breathing when he finally got some sleep.

He needed IV fluids & pain relief. There was NO Drs available to prescribe either for 12 hours so he had nothing, no fluids for over 18 hours and I was told I could not give him any of the calpol or ibuprofen that I had in my bag as it had not been prescribed.
So he sobbed in pain and got no fluids. ( Drs we’re all in theatre all night apparently so none available.)

I wrote a long email of complaint because there were numerous failings. I never got an acknowledgment nor any answer.

Specialist children’s hospital too.
Makes me furious thinking about it.

You absolutely could have given him pain relief.

The nurses couldn't because it isn't prescribed.

But you could have done.