I know IABU in not wanting to ask for maintenance. Need some sense!

[swiftt]

I’ve posted about this situation before. Back story: I have a 3 week old baby. Her dad is involved but we are not together, and we never have been. He stayed with me for 2 weeks after her birth and is currently seeing her for a few hours every other evening and more at the weekend. He works full time. I’m on maternity leave and it drops down to approx £150/week as of this month.

I asked if we could have a discussion about maintenance amounts months ago and he put it off, we argued and eventually he said we’d sort it nearer the time. Well, she’s here now and we still haven’t come to an agreement. I know I need to bring this up with him again but he has made some comments recently about money and I feel like I’m walking on eggshells when I think about bringing it up. We had a newborn photo shoot done last week and when I asked him to transfer me his half for the photos (this was agreed well in advance of doing the photo shoot) he said, ‘oh, I want a new TV. Will you pay half?’ Then said he was just joking about how he wants something and I should pay half for it. I asked him in advance if he wanted the photos done and gave him the option of saying no, so to pass that off as a joke really felt like more of a dig to me.

He’s also made other comments in the past about how unfair maintenance is etc, and I feel like I’m just anticipating an argument about him basically not wanting to give me money, even though it’s for our daughter. I said to him before that even if I don’t end up needing the money for her, I’d save it in a bank account for her. I’m not the type to go and spend it on crap for the sake of it.

He’s coming over to see her tonight and I really need to nail this conversation as I’m well aware that I’m just dragging it on and making it worse but I feel so anxious about it. For context, he has bought a couple of packs of nappies and brings some stuff in from the shops for me when he visits (had a c section so I can’t drive yet). I’ve bought anything else we’ve needed for baby since she was born and haven’t asked him to contribute.

Also very aware of how pathetic I sound in this situation. I usually don’t have issues with assertiveness but he’s really difficult to have a conversation with and I’m not feeling totally in the right headspace just yet, with dealing with a newborn, sleep deprivation and doing it mostly on my own. From my other threads, I also know this doesn’t bode well for co-parenting but I just need advice on the here and now.

Bottom line here: I feel irrationally guilty about asking for child maintenance money even though my daughter is entitled to it. How do I grow some balls?!

Feel like I need to start a new thread now about contact! I really want to make it more formal, and now seems like a good time to establish that as other posters have said. I have tried before but he always says he’d rather just ‘wing it’ - no consideration for the fact that I’d rather it be planned, and that as DD gets older she will need routine and regularity, not her dad ‘winging it’ when he wants to see her.

So I’ve at least been trying to get him to pencil in his next visit with her when he leaves. He was supposed to be seeing her today. I went for a walk with a friend, purposely scheduled it for earlier in the day to make sure I was back for his visit. Hadn’t heard from him by 2pm so I asked if he was coming over today. He replied at 3.30 asking if he could come over tomorrow instead. Usually I’d just say yeah whatever, but I asked why today. He said ‘my friends are having a BBQ that I’d like to go unless that bothers you’. I have a few issues with this. One, the passive aggressive ‘if it bothers you’ comment. Two, he had plans to see his daughter but clearly those plans only matter if nothing better comes up. Three, could he not have at least had the decency to let me know he was busy today instead of waiting til I had to ask?

So now I really want to schedule proper contact. I don’t know what’s reasonable with such a tiny baby. 2 nights a week for a couple of hours, and a few hours at the weekend is what I was thinking of suggesting. At least that way, if he flakes on his visits then he’ll miss out, rather than just getting to do whatever and whenever he wants at the moment.

Sounds like a good idea. I would text/email him the suggested schedule instead of trying to talk to him about it so he can't twist your words and there is evidence for future custody cases if need be.

Apparently I don’t realise how lucky I am because he’s done much more than most guys would. And I shouldn’t be having a go at him for his plans changing today. I’m just speechless.

As you're looking at visits I thought I'd repost this link...

This site - although American I think - gives some interesting info on age appropriate visits...
www.mediate.com/divorce/pg1034.cfm

A new suggestion:

"Now dd is getting bigger and restrictions are lifting and we all have busy calendars /other plans how about the following for the basis of visits?
Mon/Wed/Friday 6-7.30. Maybe we can build up Wednesday night so that you do bath/bed?
And Sunday 10-11.30. We'll need to review when I go back to work of course".

This might be hard, but go nuclear on his arse. He is counting on you backing down, just like he is about the money. How you react to things early on is setting the tone for your future relationship.

And don't feel guilty about it. How do you want him to treat your daughter? Right now, she can't dictate to him, can't stand up for herself. You HAVE to advocate for her. If you don't want him to treat her as an option, it's up to you to get mamma bear about it and stop it.

I hate to say it @swiftt, but please prepare yourself for him not to want this responsibility- he's not being promising so far

Does he feel guilty about all the money you spend on his child? No?

Go to CMS dont lower yourself to begging for what he is legally and morally oblidged to pay

@LittleOwl153 thank you, that’s an interesting read. I have asked him to have a think about what days suit him for seeing her going forward. I’ve suggested 2 nights this week in the meantime. I’m just sick of him swanning in and out whenever he fancies it, and today has just pushed me over the edge.

@KnobJockey I’m definitely not backing down, on the contact or CMS. I’m sick of being a doormat essentially for the sake of keeping the peace. He’s the one who should be trying to keep the peace. It’s not me that will lose out after all.

stop chasing him.

good for sorting CMS out, absolutely go through those. In regards to contact, offer him 2 evenings he comes to you to see her, not take her while shes so little. Go have food/bath whatever out the way let him be responsible. If he does not show on those 2 days, tough. Do not chase.

One thing you haven't mentioned is his family. Has he said anything about them meeting her? I'm wondering if he's even told them?

Gosh OP I feel for you. If it was me I'd not be arsed to have him at all in DDs life and would just go straight to claim maintenance!

Never mind him thinking that he's done a lot for you, does he know how f'ing lucky he is that he even gets to be in her life. The idiot

@LittleOwl153 his family are very involved. His parents want to be a big part of DD’s life, and I definitely have a better relationship with them than I do with him. They live a few hours away though.

@swiftt - 2 nights a week and one weekend visit sounds good. You will feel much better when you know he can't turn up whenever. When he has contact don't sit with him and socialise/make food and drink etc. I fell into that trap! While he is with your baby do things for yourself - have a nap, have a shower, read a book or watch tv in your bedroom etc.

I would suggest Tuesdays and Thursday and Sunday evenings from 6-7:30 to start with.

I would avoid having him around in the morning, midday on weekends as it breaks the day which means you cannot plan anything, especially if he doesn’t show up on time or at all because he stayed out late or had social commitments.
Sunday evenings is ideal because there is not much that anybody is doing at the time anyway so I would say he is more likely to show up and if he doesn’t… it is not as if you stoped everything to wait for him, you would be winding down for the day at that time as well. It would save you from a lot of disappointment and nagging 🤞

If he keeps to these times fantastic, once your girl is a bit older you can start talking about overnight stays, etc. But at this time, short and sweet, the less disagreements you have, the better, having a well established routine will help you to avoid them.

But there is also something you should know and not forget, good diplomatic skills are ESSENTIAL to co parent together effectively. Going the nuclear option is something you should try to avoid because, regardless of what many people may believe, the bottom line is that you can’t force him to stay in touch with his DD, a court order would allow him to have access to his Dd on certain days, but if he doesn’t want to see her, there’s absolutely nothing you can do.

@GrandmasCat

Surely that's so much the better for the DD - if her flakey twat of a father is out of her life before she's old enough to notice how low down his list of priorities she is? If he needs to be handled with kid gloves just for him to pay a nugatory contribution to her upkeep and to visit her regularly then I'd say she'd be a sight better off if he just buggered off out of it here and now.

@grandmascat as someone who has a child (now 17) with a dickhead ex, it mattered not whether I was being diplomatic or not, as he had no interest in being a proper parent who stepped up for their child.

At least when I went nuclear, she wasn't left sat waiting with her bag packed for someone who didn't show up because they got a better offer last minute and didn't think it mattered that they told us, that we would understand anyway. Unless you have had that child sat looking out of the window excited for daddy, I don't think you quite can understand the long term effects on the child. At least after I went nuclear, I'd sometimes get a message cancelling of some kind, so I could quickly make plans and get her out the house.

And, yes, as@Draineddraineddrained says, if he's going to be flaky, best to do it now. If I could go back and get rid of him when she was 2, rather than having years of her disappointment, I absolutely would.

@knobjokey, my child has been in worse places than yours may have. I was diplomatic but I was firm.

Some people have exes that would always go the extra mile to keep contact going(in a good or a bad way), some other have selfish exes that will come in or out of contact, or disappear completely even if they have seen the ex acting as a very caring and involved parent for most of the childhood.

I am not suggesting hurting the child to keep up the contact, but being diplomatic enough to reduce that conflict that will ultimately damage the kid far more than the dad disappearing.

I have a friend who was barred from applying to court about her ex for wasting their time so much with insanely annoying but solvable issues. Ie, she applied to court because her ex was not sending the PE kit to school when needed on the days he had the child. I suffered with the same annoying issue, I just ensured DS had two PE kits and left the extra one hanging on his school peg the whole year.

The way I solved the waiting by the window issue was to do handovers in a public place. He had a 20 minutes window to pick up or bring back DS otherwise contact would be canceled or he would have to keep DS for an extra night. That sorted my ex in less than a week, but I always kept a back up fun plan to distract DS in case he didn’t show up. Before then, I was also advised not to let DS know when his dad was coming to avoid him feeling stood up if he didn’t show up.

I did have to go nuclear once, which I don’t regret as it was a proper safeguarding issue that could affect my son’s life forever. His dad has refused to see him ever since.

Remember this sentence ...

Sorry that doesn't work for me 🌸

If he messes you about again dont ask what he is up to, it's none of your business and will piss him off. Absolutely don't accept him changing his plans if it messes you about though. 'If that's all right with you'...what a prick, he honestly doesnt sound like a nice person, letting someone down at the last minute and not bothering to even tell them. I'd respond with a breezy 'oh what a shame, I've got plans all day tomorrow, at least it's only x days til you'll see her at the next contact time' and turn my phone off

@GrandmasCat I'm sorry you're son has been through bad stuff with his dad.

I still believe that by going nuclear, it's not making him disappear but letting him know she's not a pushover. But even if it does make him disappear- then he clearly wasn't invested anyway. And again, in my experience, I would much rather the test had disappeared at an age where she didn't remember him, than the age she was where she romanticised him for years, because of vague memories.

I don't actually think the dad here will disappear for you going nuclear, by the way- he seems like a teenager in over his head, so acting like you're his mum, rather than him doing it to be controlling. Thoughtless and shitty, but probably not abusive.

@KnobJockey agree. He definitely sees anything that I suggest as me trying to tell him what to do and it’s like he wants to rebel against that for some reason. For context, we are both approaching 30 although I know it probably doesn’t sound like it!

@swiftt can't do anything right- you suggest what to do and you are telling him what to do - react
You don't tell him what to do and his sits and does nothing.

What's been said about the weekend? Has he seen the little one yet?

@KnobJockey yup, absolutely. He also seems to have a stick up his arse about me ‘getting things my way’ and he’s always piping up to say things like ‘I’m her parent too’ even when it’s something really trivial. I tried to gently let him know that whizzing a 5 week old around the room like an airplane when she’s screaming isn’t going to soothe her, and that I usually find some success in cuddling and rocking her when she’s like that. Well, I’m the bad guy and if he wants to whizz her about, then he will because he’s her parent too and I don’t get to decide everything… honestly, it’s bloody exhausting and we’re only 6 weeks in.

He asked if he could see her Tuesday and Thursday evenings and Sunday afternoons. Works fine for me but we’ll see how it plays out. We’re also having lunch with his parents on Thursday which I’m really looking forward to… they think he’s being the doting dad and doing all sorts and it’s not my place to tell them otherwise I don’t think.