I know IABU in not wanting to ask for maintenance. Need some sense!

[swiftt]

I’ve posted about this situation before. Back story: I have a 3 week old baby. Her dad is involved but we are not together, and we never have been. He stayed with me for 2 weeks after her birth and is currently seeing her for a few hours every other evening and more at the weekend. He works full time. I’m on maternity leave and it drops down to approx £150/week as of this month.

I asked if we could have a discussion about maintenance amounts months ago and he put it off, we argued and eventually he said we’d sort it nearer the time. Well, she’s here now and we still haven’t come to an agreement. I know I need to bring this up with him again but he has made some comments recently about money and I feel like I’m walking on eggshells when I think about bringing it up. We had a newborn photo shoot done last week and when I asked him to transfer me his half for the photos (this was agreed well in advance of doing the photo shoot) he said, ‘oh, I want a new TV. Will you pay half?’ Then said he was just joking about how he wants something and I should pay half for it. I asked him in advance if he wanted the photos done and gave him the option of saying no, so to pass that off as a joke really felt like more of a dig to me.

He’s also made other comments in the past about how unfair maintenance is etc, and I feel like I’m just anticipating an argument about him basically not wanting to give me money, even though it’s for our daughter. I said to him before that even if I don’t end up needing the money for her, I’d save it in a bank account for her. I’m not the type to go and spend it on crap for the sake of it.

He’s coming over to see her tonight and I really need to nail this conversation as I’m well aware that I’m just dragging it on and making it worse but I feel so anxious about it. For context, he has bought a couple of packs of nappies and brings some stuff in from the shops for me when he visits (had a c section so I can’t drive yet). I’ve bought anything else we’ve needed for baby since she was born and haven’t asked him to contribute.

Also very aware of how pathetic I sound in this situation. I usually don’t have issues with assertiveness but he’s really difficult to have a conversation with and I’m not feeling totally in the right headspace just yet, with dealing with a newborn, sleep deprivation and doing it mostly on my own. From my other threads, I also know this doesn’t bode well for co-parenting but I just need advice on the here and now.

Bottom line here: I feel irrationally guilty about asking for child maintenance money even though my daughter is entitled to it. How do I grow some balls?!

@claralara42

That is obviously not going to happen here. The guy is an arsehole. The OP is seeing CMS as a bad thing because he has made he feel like she should not be asking him for money.

It isnt a bad thing. The OP is not the bad one. She is doing nothing wrong.

You've got it swiftt.
He's shown himself unreliable, when he was meant to be helping you with the baby, so don't give him the chance to be a dick about money for years and years.

I'd do it properly personally.

Stop faffing about and just contact the CMS. You know bloody well that if you manage to get an agreement out of him it won't be enough. They will take what he can afford, which will be much less than he would have paid out if he'd stayed in a relationship properly supporting his child.

[quote swiftt]@Fiddliestofsticks they charge him more though, don’t they? Rather than doing it direct? Again, as daft as it sounds I seem to be more concerned about the impact on him for some reason. I just hate rocking the boat and really want to keep things civil, even though I know he has to pay it. Need to give my bloody head a wobble.[/quote]
He doesn't care about the impact on you does he? Fuck him, go to the CMS and get it sorted now

I would offer him the option.

Hey Dickhead, we need to sort what you are going to pay for your daughter. I’ve looked at CMS and you should be paying 15% for her. Would you rather pay that directly to me now, or put it through CMS? CMS will be more expensive for you but I know some people prefer it. Let me know which option you would prefer, so we can start payments from next week.

This man is so awful OP!!! You are a saint for tolerating him.

Send him an email if you are uncomfortable raising it in person. This is the law and he has to pay at least the legal minimum. Go through the CMS they will instruct him on the amount he has to pay and when he has to pay it- so it won’t look like you being unreasonable. They will only charge him 20% if he refuses to pay and that’s his own bloody fault.

I know how hard it is, but
You have to stand up to this man and set boundaries now. Otherwise it’s another 18 years of him bullying/ walking all over you.

You got this!! 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻

Years ago I was raising my 3 alone after I split with my ex and he gave me all sorts of grief for asking for maintenance even though me and the kids were on the bones of our arses constantly and he earned quite well. I asked the same question here and was told by women spanning over 20 odd pages to cut him out of the discussion and go to the CMS. It’s not his place to tell you he can’t afford the child you created together.

I did just that and I held firm (grey rocked) him throughout the tantrums that followed. I came back to my thread for support a lot during those weeks.

Initially it was difficult and he tried every trick in the book, including listing his outgoings that he wouldn’t be able to afford his he paid me (Nice car, savings, pension and would have to downsize as he couldn’t afford his house. That his gf would leave him if he wasn’t contributing properly!!) The kids and I were being threatened with eviction at the time. I stuck to my guns. Eventually he realised I wasn’t giving in, and he couldn’t worm his way out of it with the CMS.

I’ve been receiving every penny of the maintenance he should be paying for about 7 years now and our lives are so much better. He even raises it after the annual review without a peep anymore.

The reason the CMS have power in this area is because it’s morally and legally his responsibility to pay for his child. I felt just the same as you, so so guilty - and he didn’t give a second thought to what I was going through it the fact the kids were going without. Everything he says that’s unfair about it, tell him applies to you and his child more, and do not back down. It’s the best advice I ever got.

Thanks again to all the fabulous women of Mumsnet who supported me to achieve that. My kids are happier and healthier as a result and OP, you and your baby deserve the same. Fight for it!

I really think you should do this over a message or email rather than phone. He WILL try to push things in, make out you're being unfair, and it's much easier to be bulldozed in person.

@Shamoo

I would offer him the option.

Hey Dickhead, we need to sort what you are going to pay for your daughter. I’ve looked at CMS and you should be paying 15% for her. Would you rather pay that directly to me now, or put it through CMS? CMS will be more expensive for you but I know some people prefer it. Let me know which option you would prefer, so we can start payments from next week.

Do not do this. He might agree and pay one or 2 months, but he will start fucking you around. When he does, you have no way to get that money back.

Call CMS. Open a case. Do direct pay to start with so it doesnt cost anything, but it means he is legally on the hook for the payments. If he stops, you call CMS back with your case number and tell them. They will get you the money. So if you call them now, you can enforce all payments from now on. If you wait until he fucks around and doesnt pay, then money for those months is lost. You cant enforce it if you didnt open a case.

He has created this situation where you're actually scared to ask your child's father for money. He has manipulated you to actually care about his financial situation. It's so clever and so common. I was like this with my exDH. I wish I would have gone through CMS (I would have got twice the amount, too, I later found out.)
He would also do this thing where, if he ever gave money or goods- like if he bought a top for our DC, for example- He'd go on about it as if he was doing ME a favour. As if he was being ridiculously generous. It's all so ridiculous.

Remember OP- You're a mother now, and this is not your money. It's for your child. It's not to buy stuff for you, it's for the child. Your DC deserves to have you battling for the best for her, however cringey and difficult it feels (and I know it does...)

As others have said go through CMS. I’ve seen your other threads, he’s just going to get worse as time goes on, he’s got no interest in compromising with you about anything, only in his own interests and what suits him.

The twatty comment about the photos of the baby sounds like him wanting you to lose confidence in addressing things with him- “putting you back in your box” if you like.

Thanks again to all the fabulous women of Mumsnet who supported me to achieve that. My kids are happier and healthier as a result and OP, you and your baby deserve the same. Fight for it!

By the Power of Mumsnet!

It's also important for children's self-esteem. At 18 realising your Dad barely looked after you and didn't even pay. It's really hard.

If he tries arguing that she doesn't need anything right now, try pointing out how much money he'd need if you fucked off and left him to raise a child all by himself.

He bargains with you over everything, like a child.

"Well I went to buy milk, so you need to change all the nappies cos I did my share already"

That type of immature bollocks.

He has childish and selfish written throughout his entire person like a stick of cheap Blackpool Rock.

There's a touch of something else unpleasant there too, I just can't quite put my finger on it. Gaslighting, manipulation, coercive control? Not sure but there's shades of something like it. He equated paying half each for photos with your joint child to him wanting a new TV for fuck sake. That's more than a little twisted.

He will mess you about endlessly. I can almost guarantee he is angling to not pay for a god damned thing towards the raising of that child he helped create. He is making you feel greedy and grabby to aid in this purpose. Stop letting him set the agenda.

Has he said, "well, you wanted a baby. I was just doing you a favour to help you get one, not be a father", or something similar yet?

Hey Derek, so maintenance - are we going to set up a standing order tonight or would you prefer I went through CMS?

Text him. "I can see you don't want to discuss regular financial contributions for our daughter. I've applied to CMS so we don't need to have that conversation and they can decide what is fair. They'll be in touch with you."

"I've decided not to discuss money with you as it seems to result in unnecessary conflict with you. So I'm going to leave it to the government to collect the statutory minimum from you"

And then refuse to discuss it at all. And if he's aggressive or pushy kick him out/refuse to see him/call the police.

I'd bet you money that he's aggressive or pushy about it.

You do not need to discuss ANYTHING about money with him.

We had a newborn photo shoot done last week and when I asked him to transfer me his half for the photos (this was agreed well in advance of doing the photo shoot) he said, ‘oh, I want a new TV. Will you pay half?’

What a dickhead. I remember your thread before. If he comes up with shit like this then he’s not going to agree to pay a regular amount. He doesn’t see the baby as his responsibility. I imagine the current set up is his ideal - he can come whenever he fancies, buys a few nappies here and there to make him feel smug about how he is contributing to his upbringing.

Say something like “Just to let you know I’m putting a claim through the child maintenance service so you’ll be hearing from them shortly”.

The cost of clothes and nappies isn’t the issue. It’s the cost of childcare or the drop in income that’s the main issue with children under 5. If he protests after you’ve said the above, tell that to him. If he still moans, shrug and say he can argue it with CMS and if he refuses to pay it’ll cost him more.

*her upbringing, sorry, not his

I Remember your previous thread, go through CMS.

Write down a list of weekly costs.
Not just the bare minimum (nappies/ food) also heating, electricity, new clothes periodically. An amount for some classes, and some activities. Not extravagant just normal.
Ask him to pay half on x day of the month, by direct debit.

If he refuses ask him what he thinks his baby doesn’t need.
If he doesn’t agree, go to CMS.
If he agrees give him a couple of months and see if he pays on time. If not go to CMS.
BTW he sounds like an arse. Really keeping the peace in the short term is only going to lead to massive issues. Think of him like a child for whom setting non-negotiable boundaries is essential.

Just go through the CMS as if it was the standard thing like applying for child benefit, just drop in oh, you should get a letter from CMS soon by the way. Don’t even bat an eyelid.

Also, don’t tell mention that you’ll be putting the money in a bank account for her because that will give him an excuse for him to say you don’t need the money. He can’t demand you spend it on XYZ.

He's the idiot that kicked off about wanting the birth certificate even though you'd paid for it. Go through official channels. He will fight and argue over every penny and then hold it over you. I know you're trying to co-parent, but he sounds like a child himself.