I know IABU in not wanting to ask for maintenance. Need some sense!

[swiftt]

I’ve posted about this situation before. Back story: I have a 3 week old baby. Her dad is involved but we are not together, and we never have been. He stayed with me for 2 weeks after her birth and is currently seeing her for a few hours every other evening and more at the weekend. He works full time. I’m on maternity leave and it drops down to approx £150/week as of this month.

I asked if we could have a discussion about maintenance amounts months ago and he put it off, we argued and eventually he said we’d sort it nearer the time. Well, she’s here now and we still haven’t come to an agreement. I know I need to bring this up with him again but he has made some comments recently about money and I feel like I’m walking on eggshells when I think about bringing it up. We had a newborn photo shoot done last week and when I asked him to transfer me his half for the photos (this was agreed well in advance of doing the photo shoot) he said, ‘oh, I want a new TV. Will you pay half?’ Then said he was just joking about how he wants something and I should pay half for it. I asked him in advance if he wanted the photos done and gave him the option of saying no, so to pass that off as a joke really felt like more of a dig to me.

He’s also made other comments in the past about how unfair maintenance is etc, and I feel like I’m just anticipating an argument about him basically not wanting to give me money, even though it’s for our daughter. I said to him before that even if I don’t end up needing the money for her, I’d save it in a bank account for her. I’m not the type to go and spend it on crap for the sake of it.

He’s coming over to see her tonight and I really need to nail this conversation as I’m well aware that I’m just dragging it on and making it worse but I feel so anxious about it. For context, he has bought a couple of packs of nappies and brings some stuff in from the shops for me when he visits (had a c section so I can’t drive yet). I’ve bought anything else we’ve needed for baby since she was born and haven’t asked him to contribute.

Also very aware of how pathetic I sound in this situation. I usually don’t have issues with assertiveness but he’s really difficult to have a conversation with and I’m not feeling totally in the right headspace just yet, with dealing with a newborn, sleep deprivation and doing it mostly on my own. From my other threads, I also know this doesn’t bode well for co-parenting but I just need advice on the here and now.

Bottom line here: I feel irrationally guilty about asking for child maintenance money even though my daughter is entitled to it. How do I grow some balls?!

I don’t even know where to start with a contact agreement. She’s only a month old. The flexibility works both ways at the moment but I do definitely want a routine for her and a set schedule when she’s a little older.

Hi OP

I know you wanted to try and be friends and have an amicable co parent relationship with him but he is making this impossible. I think you need to accept that he isn't making a great start at being a parent, at the moment you can't trust him to put your daughters best interests first, and he certainly doesnt give a shit about what is best for you. He is only looking at his point of view not considering yours or your daughters and thats unlikely to change. I think you need to accept this and try and take a step back, engage with him less and stop hoping he will be reasonable; he won't, he will continue to engage in these tit for tat conversations, not changing nappies because it's not his turn or not helping care for his daughter because of some way he perceives you've somehow got it better than him. Stop trying to involve him in any family type activities like days out or photos or anything, he is massively ungrateful for all your efforts and throws your thoughtfulness back in your face. I can see when you're older asking him to join in with a theme park trip or something and him sulking because you've taken her on more rides. Detach a bit and create some distance and I think it will be easier for you and your daughter. There is no point in involving him if he is going to be snappy and sulky in front of her, it's going to make her paranoid when she is a bit bigger that she has got to keep count of who she does what with so there isn't an argument.

@DrinkFeckArseBrick

OP listen to this advise, it's sold gold and truthful.

He wants to control everything, with minimal effort.. and you are enabling him... it needs to STOP.

*advice

@DrinkFeckArseBrick thank you. I really am going to try and detach myself. I can’t keep dealing with this stress and upset. He always makes me feel like I’m in the wrong.

It is not too early to set a contact pattern, you can for example arrange for him to see her on Tuesdays and Thursday from 6 to 730 and Saturdays from 10 to 12. Being so young and breastfeeding you don’t need to allocate for him taking her out or overnight stays- that will come, in due course, if he is able to maintain the first contact agreement in the first place.

@swiftt

He’s just been over to see her and, stupidly I know, I mentioned that CMS had processed the claim and would be in touch with him soon but I also gave him the heads up that it’ll need paid this month. Well, I’m totally unreasonable because if I’d just waited a few days, he’d have sorted it. He told me he didn’t know how much he was getting paid which is why he hasn’t sorted it already. He categorically did not tell me that, he told me that after I told him I’d gone to CMS! Also, who takes a new job without knowing their salary? I know it’s just excuse after excuse and I’m so annoyed with myself for getting upset again. He left the living room and sulked in my kitchen for about half an hour whilst I fed the baby. I actually thought he’d left. I ended up saying to him that I don’t understand why he’s even annoyed if it was goon to get sorted anyway, well the outcome is the same this way? He’s still having to pay the bare minimum! Then he started on about how I’ve got the ‘better deal’ here because I get to see her all the time. I had to try and explain (again, I know I shouldn’t even entertain it) that actually it’s really hard going being a stay at home mum with a newborn and I could do without the stress of money worries. Well, unreasonable me again apparently. He says it’s hard that he only gets to see her every other day. He knows fine well that he’s welcome to see her here any time he likes, I’ve never stipulated contact and we don’t have an agreement about it so if he wanted to see her more then he absolutely could. Wouldn’t even stay an extra 20 minutes tonight to give her a bath and get her ready for bed whilst I grabbed some cold dinner. Couldn’t possibly do that. Need to stop engaging with him, I know. He didn’t even say bye, just said ‘don’t worry, you’ll get your money’ and left. Kicking myself now for even saying anything in the first place.

he is annoyed as CMS will mean he will be expected to make a set regular payment. He is obviously hoping he just give you a bit of cash here and there when he feels like it. There was nothing to stop him setting up a regular direct debit to your account. Just ignore all his excuses. A baby is v expensive - reduced income during maternity leave, then child care/clothes, extra space and food. a baby becomes a child with all those costs. Good for you for starting CMS so you dont spend the next 18 year asking him for cash . he sounds v v immature.

It's not up to him how any maintenance is spent, don't pander by saying you'll save it.
It's his contribution towards the cost of raising his child, which include a proportion of rent, bills etc as well as food, kit, and any other expenses.You don't need to justify it in any way.
If he won't discuss it properly or agree to pay a regular fixed amount then you'll need to go through CMS.

Also his parting comment shows he still has no clue 'you'll get your money', it's not your money, it's your daughters money, the absolute minimum that she is legally entitled to

Well isn’t he a nasty piece of work? As others have said, he knows how soft you are and how easily he could have manipulated you into accepting him never paying anything. Ever. So now he’s furious that you’ve removed his chance to do that.

It’s good you’ve done it officially. Now you just really need to work on taking absolutely no shit from him. For the sake of your baby. Please, toughen up.

Whatever he give you he'll still be shortchanging you. By hundreds of thousands over the years. What's the cost of a 24/7 nanny half of every week? Then add on clothes, food, nappies, etc etc etc. His contribution won't touch the sides over the years. And you'll be the one making all the sacrifices, social life, career, pension.
If he honestly thought the' better deal' was seeing more of his DD he'll go for 50/50. Laughable. All talk and no action.

Some of the comments he made last night are still swirling round my head this morning. One of them being that if I’m so desperate for the money then he’ll give me it now, to which I had to explain that I’m not desperate, I just wanted it sorted so I didn’t have to worry about it later down the line. Everything just feels so awkward now, I’m dreading the next time he comes to see the baby already.

You're going to have to grey rock him on this OP. Just practise some set phrases - "routine is important for babies to feel secure"; "if I know how much money is coming in and when, I'll be better able to plan her care and save for the bigger purchases down the line"; "CMS only costs more if you miss payments and they have to get it direct from your employer"; "I've said you can spend time with her when you want, just make sure she's not sleeping and we're not doing something else first"; "we can set up a specific schedule for her if that would make you more comfortable" etc etc. Find your own words and practise.

But also keep track of how much time he's spending with her vs being in your house expecting to be fed/entertained, in case he tries to pull a fast one with CMS claiming he's a main carer or something.

You can do this.

He’s now messaged saying he’s worked out his income and offered X amount monthly, going up to X amount when he gets a pay rise in the next few months. I’ve already paid for the CMS application and still want to go through them. Can I accept him paying at the end of this month through a private arrangement before CMS have sorted my claim, or will that mess everything up? I’m just wary it could still take weeks for them to sort things out with him.

I don't see why not - and tell him when CMS come back with their calculation you can repay him any overpayment* if he wants

*There won't be an overpayment, bet you anything

Your not grabby and don't have to justify what it's for.He is her father,your not a couple sharing finances therefore he legally has to pay maintenance.

He is bullying you.I'd simply go through CMS;you don't know how much he earns exactly and I've a feeling he'll try to offer you less money than your LO is entitled to.

If he offers £50 a week and CMS says it's £65, he can up his standing order when the report comes in. If he offers 100 a week and CMS says 65, you can either repay the 35, or he can be a decent dad and let you keep it.

It'll be up to him to make the payments whether he calculates then or the CMS does. The difference is, if he misses payments the CMS will pursue him for them, if the claim has gone via them.

And then they'll take an extra percentage of his calculated claim for their costs, so it's in his interests to make the payments on time.

Sounds like he was more in love with the idea of having a baby and being "dad" than the actual impact of being a proper father to a real child who he would need to be financially as well as emotionally responsible for.

Time for him to grow up and accept the fact of his decision to be a father to a child he helped create. 🌹

I bet he knows that have problems being assertive with him hence him trying to get you to cancel the claim. I suspect that if you cancel the claim then there will be months when he tries to stiff you because it's Christmas or whatever. With CMS you don't have the embarrassment of having to ask where his maintenance payment is so I agree it's the best plan for you. CMS will have his annual income so will be the ones who can judge if the payment is fair. He can top it up if he wants but I'd want to know if he was trying to get me to accept less than the minimum.

I would not cancel the CMS calculation. Let them keep tabs on him. Saves you a lot of hassle.

I'd just say to him that it's fine in the interim but that you will keep the CMS claim live as it will make things easier going forward. Once the CMS have made their calculation you will get the notice as well as him so you will be able to see from there what his reaction is!

If you have any idea of his salary - he should be handing over 12% gross - assuming he doesn't have any other kids tucked away...

Do NOT cancel that CMS Claim...

everything he is now doing, is to stop this claim.

Don't be fooled into trusting him, because up until now has literally fobbed you off with excuses.

Tell him that's great, but you respectfully prefer things were done officially.

He's not going to like losing control. 🌸

Whilst you are on a roll with sorting arrangements you could tackle the visitation.

This site - although American I think - gives some interesting info on age appropriate visits...
www.mediate.com/divorce/pg1034.cfm

A suggestion:

"Whilst we are on the subject of arrangements, now dd is getting bigger and restrictions are lifting how about the following for the basis of visits?
Mon/Wed/Friday 6-7.30. Maybe we can build up Wednesday night so that you do bath/bed?
And Sunday 10-11.30. We'll need to review when I go back to work of course".

Then I'd have dinner FOR ONE in the oven /on the side had her over to him and leave him to it on those evenings. The Sunday gives you the option of a shower (if that's safe whilst he's in the house) or whatever you need to recharge and also the option to send him.out for a pram walk/extend time so he can do something with her as she gets older. I'd probably look at the court order to give you resident/primary carer status before I'd let him take her off out though!

You are doing so well! And the vipers here will support you all the way!

Don't cancel the cms claim, going via the cms protects everyone. They will calculate the amount and then email you both. You can choose to take a different amount if that's what you both agree. However if for some reason he stops paying, if you have an open account with cms you can go via them to recover the amount and they will deal with him. It will also get reviewed with you both annually which means if he gets a pay rise or his pay drops then this is reflected in the new amount.

I strongly suspect he wants you to close the cms account as he's offering you less than he should.

It won't be in the best interests of your DD for you to cancel the CMS claim. Keep that thought in your head. He's trying to pay as little as possible. He'll lie to you. You'll only ever have his word for what he's earning. How can you not see this?
Has he given you any money at all yet? Bought nappies? Formula? Anything?
Do not cancel.

Don't cancel the CMS for two reasons.
One because when you’re dealing with someone like this, it’s good to go official. Two, because you’ve shown him that you’re not a pushover and when you say you are going to do something, you’ve proved you’ll do it. He obviously did not think that you would contact CMS the next morning and was shocked you had. Good on you! Don’t roll over now and undo the great work you’ve done. You’ve shown you’ll try and talk to him about stuff a number of times, but then take it into your own hands when nothing it done. This is a great lesson for him and you are being a great mum to you DD.