Grandma using school to get around low contact

[CrunchyApple3]

To be frank, I don't have a great relationship with my Mum. She's always behaved like she has this weird obsession with my life and that she's entitled to know everything about it. When I was a child living at home, this caused me no end of grief - I couldn't keep a diary, get mail without her opening it, or get changed after a shower without her barging into my room and trying to look at me naked. She would constantly criticise me and try to shame me, I grew up with massive confidence issues from listening to her negative comments about my body. There was some physical abuse too when I was very, very young but the mental stuff was far more damaging to me.

I'm a private person and I don't care for anyone, let alone my nosy Mum to know every detail of my life, and once I left home and started to assert my personal autonomy this caused her to get way more obsessive. The less I shared with her, the more she pushed. Once she even broke into my house while I was on holidays and went through my bedroom, then tried to claim that she was "only try to help" by cleaning it for me while I was away. I was 32 years old at that point! This was the trigger I needed to really set down some boundaries with her and not put up with her crazy anymore.

These have mostly worked and given me some space and peace of mind. While Mum stopped coming to my house whenever she felt like it, she is too proud to outright ask me if I'm up for a visitor, so instead she just does weird things like comes to my house (unannounced, still) and leaves things in my driveway for me to find later. It's bizarre as heck but it's like she's doing it just to have a little power flex? I don't know but I just let it be because pick your battles, I suppose?

I have an 8 year old who is in school. I have continued to keep my mother at arm's length, because over the years she's demonstrated to me that she's not a safe person for my kid to be around. Mum has never been left alone with my daughter, she's never babysat her or had her sleepover. Putting aside the fact that I don't trust her, Mum has some medical conditions that limit her mobility and physical strength. If there was some kind of emergency, I don't think she'd be able to react quickly. So my kid sees grandma once every 2-3 months or so - my partner and I will invite grandma over for dinner or we'll go out for lunch somewhere. The last time we had lunch together, Mum started talking about my daughter's school and asking whether they needed volunteers for the canteen. I told her that it was quite physical work involving needing to lift heavy trays of food out of the oven and that you need to be on your feet for most of the day, so not to worry about it. I wasn't bullshitting her, and she lives an hour away from us so I thought that would be the end of it.

But no, about a fortnight ago I got a message in the school p&c group chat welcoming their newest canteen volunteer - my mother. So I went to the school and spoke to the office staff and canteen manager, and warned them that my daughter was not to be taken out of class by my mother and not to be left alone with her, or allowed to be picked up by her after school. The school said they understood, and they'd send an email out to the teachers to get the message out.

About a week later, I received a phone call from the school principal to let me know that after my Mum's first canteen shift, she'd shown up at the office asking to have my daughter come out of class and see her. The staff member told her that they don't like to interrupt the kid's breaks and Mum left, and the principal said "I don't think she was very happy about it". I thanked her for letting me know and asked to pass along my thanks to the staff members as well.

I am just so tired of my Mum trying to push her way into my life, and trying to do it in ways where she can claim plausible deniability and pretend she's "just trying to help!" and make me out to be unreasonable. AIBU?? I've never told my daughter why she is never left alone with her grandma or babysat etc but maybe it would be reasonable to do so now?

Do schools really want volunteers in canteens? I've never known that to be a role where volunteers are asked for in school.
Seems odd that she asked if there was a volunteer role there and then there is one. Is it not a paid job?

I have a strained relationship with my Mother. When DD was young she used to collect her from primary school when it suited her but didn't feel the need to let me know first so I would be waiting for DD to come off the school bus. Apparently it wasn't my place 'to tell her when she could collect her granddaughter'.

I had to go to the school and request that my DD got on the bus every day unless I called them first. My DM wasn't happy but she got over it.

I'd second not telling your daughter. The school seem to be taking this very seriously and that should be a form of comfort. If she doesn't quit bit keeps up insisting on seeing your DD, the school will no doubt find a way to be rid of her now knowing the reason behind why she's volunteered. If you're really worried, have you considered going NC and even asking the police for advice re a restraining order? I know this sounds OTT but to me, her behaviour is quite scary.

You dont have to be embarrassed about your mum OP, she clearly has some major issues. The school will handle her in school and you have out of school covered.

I suggest you continue as you are with arms length visits but be aware she may try similar at things like guides that your dd may take up. Might be worth warning group leaders of any activity that takes volunteers.

I think you can start to talk to your dd about your childhood. No need for huge details but as this is a conversation you'll need to have eventually it would be better if she grew up understanding that there were issues.

Everything seems to be very black or white to your mother. So I feel you now have to go no contact with her. It will then make things clearer if you later have to go down the stalking or harassment route later, which I feel is coming.

I wouldn't worry too much from the school side of things, and I wouldn't worry about your dd suddenly wanting to spend time with a relative she barely knows, who behaves oddly. Children are very perceptive and can tell when things aren't quite right, she feels safe with you and that's the main thing.

My 'd'm told me she would sue for access to my dc, claiming grandparents rights. This doesn't exist. I looked it up, and it was clear by her bizarre behaviour that she was trying to build a case for family court, based on the advice available online, but it's come to nothing.

The best thing to do is grey rock in these situations. Be an inert, boring blob. That doesn't mean do nothing, of course, definitely prepare for possible repercussions or weirdness from her, talk to the school, etc, but ignore your mother as much as possible. Every action of hers is going to be an attempt to create a reaction from you, which will in turn feed the beast and cause more drama.

I want a boring life, as much as possible, so I ignore shit stirring. They get bored and move to a new mark eventually.

These days my mother sends birthday cards via an online company, the messages are printed out and the cards are automatically delivered, I think she just has everything set up on account with them. No more creepy messages inviting my dc on extravagant holidays, no more attempts at emotional manipulation, no more trying to get me fired because I'm such an evil daughter, etc. There might be more attempts in future, I know what she's like and she doesn't give up easily! But for now, all is quiet.

Op, just remember that this sort of behaviour is not normal, and other people can see that, so your attempts to mitigate the weirdness won't be seen as anything other than completely reasonable.

Don't engage with your mother, keep engaging with the school.

Ask them for the steps they are taking to protect your DD in writing.

To those saying go NC, I've done NC and low contact at times, and found that low contact takes less emotional energy than NC - so whichever works for you...

I agree the safeguarding lead needs to be aware of the situation. I feel for you OP, it must be a nightmare. I'm really struggling to understand why some posters think this is acceptable behaviour from your mum.

We had a slightly similar situation - we were no contact due to abuse when I was a child and teenager.

My mother also tried to use the school for contact - she turned up outside the school at home time one day asking other parents where my DD was. They reported her to the janitor, who confronted her straight away and asked her what she was up to. She has some sob story about how she wasn’t allowed to see her GC and she had gifts for her.

The school phoned me straight away and I explained that the children never saw her as it was a safeguarding issue due to things that happened in my childhood.

They understood immediately and sent my mother away, explaining that they would call then police if she ever tried that again.

I think your situation is more complex as you still allow your mother to see your child. However what she has done with the school volunteering shows you that she’s an even bigger risk than you thought. She won’t accept the boundaries that you have set up to protect your child. So I’d be going NC if I were you.

I understand that you have allowed LC as it makes you feel less guilty than going NC. But I think you need to put your child’s welfare above your own feelings.

I’d recommend that you get some counselling as going NC can be hard. You’ve spent you whole life being taught that her wishes, feelings, views and opinions are more important than your own so it’s hard to change that.

And ignore that people who say you need to tell her why . Every single person who tries LC tells the parent why. And every parent says the same thing

“ I have no idea why they do this, they didn’t tell me and anyway it’s their fault. I don’t know how my child can be such a hateful and cruel person”.

So know now that’s what your mother will tell everyone. You need some counselling / therapy to help you hold those boundaries and keep you child safe.

From the school’s point of view, they have Done nothing wrong. It’s quite common for parents and Gp to volunteer in schools. Your child still sees their GP and you allow this. However I’d still do what @SnarkyBag says and make them aware of why it’s a problem for her to be alone with your child even in a school setting.

BTW never being alone is not enough to protect your child from an abuser. So many parents in your situation think they are smarter than the abuser and can outwit and control them.

You can’t. Abusers always find a way to abuse, even in plain sight. They whisper nasty comments, take the child to the toilet alone , say unkind things in public and then you don’t confront in case they make a scene.

It’s who they are. Your mother has been like this for ? 40 years or more. She’s not going to have a personality transplant now.

Please dont worry about how the school will feel. You’d be surprised how many behind the scenes issues like this schools deal with. A close friend had an extremely acrimonious separation and had to explain it all to our school (which is a very “pleasant middle class” type of place) and she said they could not have been more understanding, didn’t seem phased in the slightest and said they deal with these kind of things all the time including restraining orders, people trying to get other family members involved in family disputes etc.
I would write a very clear letter and ask for it to be copied to all staff members and kept on file just reiterating that under no circumstances should your mother be granted any individual access to your daughter and she should not be released to your mother under any circumstances.

List all of the things that your DM did to you - small things and bad things - see the whole consolidated picture and patterns.

Know that when she is requested a boundary she disrespects anyone and everyone and breaks through it time and time again to satisfy her own unhinged urges.

Know that she is now doing this to your DD.

Make it stop. She doesn’t listen to you so go to the school explain in detail and demand she be let go.

This is serious emotionally manipulative, obsessive, controlling behavior - that as you know causes great damage.

Seems like the rest of her family and friends have had enough.

She is disrespectful and dangerous and refuses to cooperate.

She needs serious consequences here.

Your DD doesn’t need this RS.

You don’t need this RS.

The energy and stress managing her is negative and draining - throws a shadow over all your lives that you don’t need to be dealing with.

Hopefully we'll get some hot weather before we break up - she'll be roasting in the kitchen, then it'll become muggy at the end of her shift with all the damp from washing up.

Does your DD have hot dinners? Not to upset her if she does and enjoys them, but that would mean more possible contact - ie not queuing up and being served by your DM. If school are back to normal in September, it might be worth checking where the sandwich children are in relation to the kitchen, ie ours are in next hall, kitchen staff might be able to see a few of them but can't go and see them, and if it wouldn't consider any upset, change her over.

I agree with @C0RINNA. Please do not underestimate the risk your ‘M’ represents. Work with the school to keep her away from your DD.

Can you move out of the area

Why on earth should OP do that, Northern?

There's no way around it. You cannot have her in your life or your daughter's life, you need to get a Restraining Order.

It's really that simple.

I'd be going even lower contact with her after this.

You and the school handled it well but I'd be checking with thee school what plan to do if something like this happens again. I volunteer and I have to abide by code of conduct.

She has upped the ante significantly with this stunt - it’s a v v serious transgression and a clear warning that the focus of her obsession has diverted to your daughter - it’s up to you now to recognise this alarm and up your defences proportionally.

I would ensure she has zero info about your DD routines etc because she could well start to stalk her after school activities etc. I would be thinking ahead to when you DD is older and doing stuff with her friends unaccompanied by adults - going to the park /shops at 10 or 11 and expecting your DM to turn up and interfere. That would be v difficult for a 10 or 11 year old to deal with ... so I would be planning and preparing your DD for that. To start with your DM needs v v little contact and zero info about your lives as she will exploit this. So lower contact - less frequent, less duration, out of your house because she will be gleaning info by being in your home. It NC is feels harder then just meet her in a cafe / park twice a year for your DD birthday.

You need to be clear what the objective is though - you should not be facilitating a relationship with your DD and you DM - she doesn’t need this and she will find it v hard to manage as a young teenager especially with mobile phone etc when you are not with her 24/7 to protect to see and intercept the manipulation and abuse and by then your DD could have been groomed into a confused situation.

Big red flags. This has taken a serious new turn.

what were you not wanting to share with your dm op? when you were a child?

This might have already been said, if so, sorry. Haven't RTFT.

Given that she is just a volunteer (not actually employed) it would be simple enough for the school to retract their decision to have her onsite.

I'd be asking for that to happen asap, it's a safeguarding issue, they need to deal with it. Their first priority is your DD's welfare, OP, not the sensibilities of their volunteer's.

I agree with poster who said that it's good that she's shown her colours to the school early on. I'd be asking for them to get rid of her. Good luck

i would suggest family mediation op

I too would be going NC now. What a fucking crazy thing for her to do
I agree once she is told No a few times she won't go back to do the job.

@AbsolutelyPatsy

what were you not wanting to share with your dm op? when you were a child?

@AbsolutelyPatsy Did you read the OP's thread? She wanted to be able to shower and get dressed without being abused.

And what she wanted to share or not share, is totally irrelevant. That she had no right to privacy or agency is.

Mediation wont help this, only a Restraining Order and getting the mother out completely will.

why is that fucking crazy, @Horehound
she is not the first grandparent to volunteer at a school

Moving house and disrupting everyone's lives as a result just isn't an option. We have friends and community here and DD loves her school.

I sometimes fantasise about going no contact with mum but I have a feeling that it would just set her off and make her obsessiveness even worse.

Thanks to everyone who commented with rational suggestions. To the people who can't understand why I think my mum is a risk for my kid to be around, it's because I don't trust her! She hurt me and put me down to make herself feel good, and if she did it to me she is quite capable of doing it to DD. But even putting the abuse aside, isn't just not being able to trust her enough?

Anyway, I'll go back to the school and talk to them about it some more.