Grandma using school to get around low contact

[CrunchyApple3]

To be frank, I don't have a great relationship with my Mum. She's always behaved like she has this weird obsession with my life and that she's entitled to know everything about it. When I was a child living at home, this caused me no end of grief - I couldn't keep a diary, get mail without her opening it, or get changed after a shower without her barging into my room and trying to look at me naked. She would constantly criticise me and try to shame me, I grew up with massive confidence issues from listening to her negative comments about my body. There was some physical abuse too when I was very, very young but the mental stuff was far more damaging to me.

I'm a private person and I don't care for anyone, let alone my nosy Mum to know every detail of my life, and once I left home and started to assert my personal autonomy this caused her to get way more obsessive. The less I shared with her, the more she pushed. Once she even broke into my house while I was on holidays and went through my bedroom, then tried to claim that she was "only try to help" by cleaning it for me while I was away. I was 32 years old at that point! This was the trigger I needed to really set down some boundaries with her and not put up with her crazy anymore.

These have mostly worked and given me some space and peace of mind. While Mum stopped coming to my house whenever she felt like it, she is too proud to outright ask me if I'm up for a visitor, so instead she just does weird things like comes to my house (unannounced, still) and leaves things in my driveway for me to find later. It's bizarre as heck but it's like she's doing it just to have a little power flex? I don't know but I just let it be because pick your battles, I suppose?

I have an 8 year old who is in school. I have continued to keep my mother at arm's length, because over the years she's demonstrated to me that she's not a safe person for my kid to be around. Mum has never been left alone with my daughter, she's never babysat her or had her sleepover. Putting aside the fact that I don't trust her, Mum has some medical conditions that limit her mobility and physical strength. If there was some kind of emergency, I don't think she'd be able to react quickly. So my kid sees grandma once every 2-3 months or so - my partner and I will invite grandma over for dinner or we'll go out for lunch somewhere. The last time we had lunch together, Mum started talking about my daughter's school and asking whether they needed volunteers for the canteen. I told her that it was quite physical work involving needing to lift heavy trays of food out of the oven and that you need to be on your feet for most of the day, so not to worry about it. I wasn't bullshitting her, and she lives an hour away from us so I thought that would be the end of it.

But no, about a fortnight ago I got a message in the school p&c group chat welcoming their newest canteen volunteer - my mother. So I went to the school and spoke to the office staff and canteen manager, and warned them that my daughter was not to be taken out of class by my mother and not to be left alone with her, or allowed to be picked up by her after school. The school said they understood, and they'd send an email out to the teachers to get the message out.

About a week later, I received a phone call from the school principal to let me know that after my Mum's first canteen shift, she'd shown up at the office asking to have my daughter come out of class and see her. The staff member told her that they don't like to interrupt the kid's breaks and Mum left, and the principal said "I don't think she was very happy about it". I thanked her for letting me know and asked to pass along my thanks to the staff members as well.

I am just so tired of my Mum trying to push her way into my life, and trying to do it in ways where she can claim plausible deniability and pretend she's "just trying to help!" and make me out to be unreasonable. AIBU?? I've never told my daughter why she is never left alone with her grandma or babysat etc but maybe it would be reasonable to do so now?

Jesus fuckin christ, have I fell into some parallel universe?
These demented cunts trying to justify an abuser, who is continuing into her daughters adulthood, go and have a bloody word with yourselves!!
she’s your mother crap, is that; crap.
The behaviour ppl are expected to tolerate because you’re related is shocking, would you tolerate it off a friend? no you wouldn’t!
OP stand firm and protect your wee girl, go NC and don’t look back.
I’m 15 yrs NC, I tried to give her a chance but could see history repeating itself and cut her off to protect my girls.

Surely they cannot "get rid" just on the say so of the Op?

They can get rid for whatever reason they want. She’s a volunteer not an employee so I don’t think employee rights come into play and even if they did she’s been there less than a year so she has no rights. If the OP tells the head a summary of what she’s said here and sensible head wouldn’t have her back. Or the head needs to say is that they currently have enough volunteers and don’t require her services….they don’t even have to say why they’re getting rid.

Hi OP,
Please realise that instead of treating DD like she did you, that your ‘D’M could try to use DD as a weapon against you. So dripping criticism of you in her ear, undermining you & championing DD to win her affection.

This may be harder for you to spot & fight because you will be looking for DM making snide comments to DD about (eg) her appearance, when more likely it would be ‘Your Mummy is too strict, you should come & live with me instead’ type comments. This wouldn’t work now, but when DD becomes a teenager any natural conflict between you could be exploited.

Op I had something similar, relatives, low contact using school public facilities to turn up and gawp then grab dd.
It felt like such an invasive yucky manoeuvre. Awful.
It's all so awful.

Covid in this regard has been wonderful

• abusers usually don't question their behaviour in a rational, open logical way in respect of others boundaries.

That's part of the problem, a lack of self reflection and honesty.
If they were that way inclined they probably wouldn't be acting in heightened entitled and abusive ways.
It's like the Mil threads were there has been horrific behaviour and people say "just talk to her", usually that's been attempted early on! They don't respond to just talking because they don't care or respond to anyone.

Wow there are a lot of comments, I really didn't expect so big of a response. Thank you again to all the people who have shared kind words and support, I really appreciate it. While I can't respond to every single comment I want to express my thanks for your advice and say that I have read every one, and intend to save some in a file for future reading whenever I start to second guess myself or get the guilts, which admittedly happens sometimes.

Some comments I do want to address -

Mum breaking into my house. No she did not have a key and I'm puzzled as to why anyone would think I'd ever give her one. But even that is beside the point - what normal person thinks it's ok to go uninvited into their adult child (and their partner's) bedroom and go through their drawers?

Why is Mum still involved in my life - Honestly the longer her crap goes on for, the more I wonder this and struggle to come up with an answer. It used to be "because I can handle seeing her in small doses and I don't have a lot of family, also my relationship with my brother is likely to end if I cut off my mother". But reflecting on this, those seeing her in small doses have become less and less frequent over time, I guess my fuse has just gradually gotten shorter. I think back to how when DD was younger I used to see Mum a lot more, but she only lived 5 minutes away. A few times a week when DD was a newborn, then I got sick of Mum showing up at my house uninvited and unannounced and pushed it back to once a week, then over time when DD was a toddler Mum started up with the manipulative and shaming comments.. e.g. "look how chunky she is" "you're a meanie if you don't give granny a hug". I shut these down and told her that I wouldn't tolerate such comments then I distanced myself more, visits went down to once a month and the comments about DD's appearance stopped. Then around the time DD was 3 we moved about 1.5hrs away and the visits got less frequent again but we still couldn't get through these without grandma making some kind of passive aggressive comment, usually about how little she gets to see DD which I just roll my eyes at.

I don't know what she brings to my life anymore. I guess DD likes her, but what 8 year old wouldn't like a person who gives them chocolates and toys every time they see them. We don't have a lot of family nearby, they are almost all overseas on both my and my partner's sides. I guess I was hanging onto some fantasy that if I just shut down Mum's meanness and weirdness whenever it popped up things would improve in time but writing this out, it's clear that this hasn't been the case.

Also to all the posters in this thread who have said they felt that my childhood was like their own, I'm so sorry. You deserved so much better

OP, you sound so clear and honest with yourself.

I think it is natural to hold out hope for the relationship we all would like to have, and to come to terms, grieve, for the relationship that never was or is lost. It’s why so many of us stay in all kinds of relationships that are unhealthy or expired.

AttilaTheMeerkat often posts good books to read on this matter.

Your actions and instincts are strong. The person you can trust and rely on is you. I wish you love and strength in your journey.

OP - your mother must have completed a DBS form to enable her to work in a school. I imagine you didn't report her break-in to the Police, otherwise that would have had to have been flagged up and she might not have got her DBS.... Just a thought for the future

You are doing the right thing for your dd. As a PP suggested, when dd is a teenager - be careful of the 'poison dripped into her ears' about you. I'd be cutting right back now, rather than in a few years time.

@AbsolutelyPatsy

mediation is not for people who have rights, it is for grandparents who want to see their grandchildren, they have no rights, so mediation is the suggested way forward.

That's a very, very weird concept of what mediation is about. Mediation is used in all sorts of contexts and is open to all sorts of people. However, I very much doubt that it is the way forward here.

I suspect the volunteering will stop if your mother can't use it to see OP's child on her own. She may well come to the conclusion that two hours' travel plus a lot of hard physical work just isn't worth it for the occasional odd fleeting glimpse. However, it would be worth double checking that she's not likely to encounter your child "accidentally" in the corridors and that she isn't having conversations with her in the dining room.

I think the volunteering gives her lots of fuel for her narrative of “I’m a loving caring granny doing everything I can to be kind” and a new possibly delightfully shit stiring audience to cause maximum upset to OP. I’d ask her not to volunteer at dds school as you want dd to have some privacy. If she continues I’d contact the police. Breaking into your house and going through your bedroom drawers is not anywhere near normal and neither was the forced invasion of your toilet/bedroom/diary as a child. I’m so sorry OP be very sure it’s ok to have your boundaries.

What was she looking for in your bedroom???

@5zeds

What was she looking for in your bedroom???

That's so no relevant to the issue at hand...why did you think it was relevant or appropriate to post that?

Crunchy my mother also broke into my sister's house while visiting her country on holiday - sister returned from work early one day to find her looking through drawers having jimmied the patio door open. She wasn't looking for anything in particular- just said she had a 'right' to go into her 'own daughter's apartment' 😳. Even fleeing to another country wasn't enough to stop her trampling over her boundaries.
For you, moving a bit further away has led her to doing the same with your dd at school, and making it seem acceptable and normal were it not for the backstory that she will be relying on you not to share due to the internalised self- blame or shame, and embers of hope, that she has manipulated within you.
Crunchy, I know the feeling too well of wanting a decent and kind and loving mum, and also the crushing realisation that holding out for a personality transplant in the one you have is pointless. And the sense of isolation afterwards. But your mental health and life may improve immeasurably without her in it.
Mine also tried to turn my very young dc against me by gossiping about me in front of them. Amazing how subtly they go about manipulating others- but as pp said, abusers operate on a manipulative basis anyway.
Good luck and take good care of yourself and dd.

Also don't waste your precious time trying to analyse or understand her behaviour, it doesn't matter and it won't change anything.

You matter more. The Stately Homes threads on Relationships board are supportive

It sounds like you have reached your limit. And that's fine.

Definitely put it in writing to the school again. Make sure you say would like any cover /supply staff with your dds class to be told to keep dd away from your mother.

Hopefully they will end her volunteering.

She wasn't looking for anything in particular- just said she had a 'right' to go into her 'own daughter's apartment'

My IL's tried this with us when we went NC (me) and LC (DH).

Arrived at the house demanding to be let in, FIL yelling at the top of his voice that "my son pays the mortgage on this house and we will come into it if we want to."

They were very swiftly told to fuck off, but the full on entitlement of thinking they could come into our house was unbelievable.

We are both NC with them now but DH has had to stand at our door and repeat over and over "You're not coming in" because they are convinced they can have all the access to our house that they like.

Prior to the no contact, we've had tantrums because:

They've arrived at our house and the door was locked so they had to knock rather than just walk in.

They've arrived and we've been out and we won't give them a key to let themselves in when we are not here.

They've arrived and been let in but been asked not to go in the bedrooms and spare room (used as an office) or read post (that was open but in an envelope on my desk) or read my college work (which had confidential information in it and was in a closed ring binder in a locked filing cabinet and the key was in my underwear draw in another room).

They've arrived and been let in, served food and drink, stayed for hours, but still haven't "been made to feel welcome" - whatever that means.

Some parents just do feel like every aspect of their children's lives is up for grabs, even when their children are now adults.

@LookItsMeAgain That's so no relevant to the issue at hand...why did you think it was relevant or appropriate to post that? because the answer may highlight to OP that there is NO reason to break into her house and look through her drawers that is reasonable and what OP needs is to feel confident that OP is not the one with the problem here. The difficulty with being brought by someone who always puts their own feelings first is you are trained to do the same, and ANYTHING you do that isn’t entirely for them makes you tie yourselves in knots to excuse them and blame yourself.

The principal called me a few days ago to inform me that on more than one occasion, mum has approached teachers in the school and asked them to let my daughter know that she wants to see her. That was the straw on the camels back for me. I emailed mum and told her that I am exhausted by her boundary pushing behaviour, and that I don't want to hear from her again.

I feel horrible. My brother and I met and discussed the situation and he said that mum is desperate to see DD more. I said that I am going no contact because I am desperate to keep myself and my kid safe and whenever I ask mum not to do something she does it anyway, and I have given up on trying to make her understand that her lack of respect for reasonable boundaries between us has left me with no other option.

My brother is heartbroken because he is clutching desperately onto this world view that family is everything and you love them no matter what. I know that's a bullshit ideology and I can't change that for him but I do care about him and I'm sad that he's in the position he's in. I feel sad for my mum because it would be miserable to be in her shoes but accept that she is where she is due to the choices she has made.

I'll get therapy. Any tips or books I should read on moving forward after NC?

I'm so sorry to hear this op it's so traumatic going NC with a parent. I have been NC with my dad for 5 years now.
I agree that therapy sounds good and just the ending of the current situation will feel so freeing in time.
It's all very raw just now. Be kind to yourself

I'm sorry to hear this OP but I think you're making the right decision.

I found Susan forwards books helpful. And the stately homes thread on here.

It's hard when people don't understand.

I think you need to explain to the school that this is a safeguarding issue and that she is THEIR employee. This is THEIR responsibility to set very clear boundaries with, not yours. (She obviously won’t listen to you, but if she wants this job, she has to listen to them.)

Your mum has physically,emotionally and sexually abused you. What ki nd of normal human wants to see a naked teen body and will push on their room to do so. She is a danger and you should be telling school this. I wouldn't be happy at all.