Grandma using school to get around low contact

[CrunchyApple3]

To be frank, I don't have a great relationship with my Mum. She's always behaved like she has this weird obsession with my life and that she's entitled to know everything about it. When I was a child living at home, this caused me no end of grief - I couldn't keep a diary, get mail without her opening it, or get changed after a shower without her barging into my room and trying to look at me naked. She would constantly criticise me and try to shame me, I grew up with massive confidence issues from listening to her negative comments about my body. There was some physical abuse too when I was very, very young but the mental stuff was far more damaging to me.

I'm a private person and I don't care for anyone, let alone my nosy Mum to know every detail of my life, and once I left home and started to assert my personal autonomy this caused her to get way more obsessive. The less I shared with her, the more she pushed. Once she even broke into my house while I was on holidays and went through my bedroom, then tried to claim that she was "only try to help" by cleaning it for me while I was away. I was 32 years old at that point! This was the trigger I needed to really set down some boundaries with her and not put up with her crazy anymore.

These have mostly worked and given me some space and peace of mind. While Mum stopped coming to my house whenever she felt like it, she is too proud to outright ask me if I'm up for a visitor, so instead she just does weird things like comes to my house (unannounced, still) and leaves things in my driveway for me to find later. It's bizarre as heck but it's like she's doing it just to have a little power flex? I don't know but I just let it be because pick your battles, I suppose?

I have an 8 year old who is in school. I have continued to keep my mother at arm's length, because over the years she's demonstrated to me that she's not a safe person for my kid to be around. Mum has never been left alone with my daughter, she's never babysat her or had her sleepover. Putting aside the fact that I don't trust her, Mum has some medical conditions that limit her mobility and physical strength. If there was some kind of emergency, I don't think she'd be able to react quickly. So my kid sees grandma once every 2-3 months or so - my partner and I will invite grandma over for dinner or we'll go out for lunch somewhere. The last time we had lunch together, Mum started talking about my daughter's school and asking whether they needed volunteers for the canteen. I told her that it was quite physical work involving needing to lift heavy trays of food out of the oven and that you need to be on your feet for most of the day, so not to worry about it. I wasn't bullshitting her, and she lives an hour away from us so I thought that would be the end of it.

But no, about a fortnight ago I got a message in the school p&c group chat welcoming their newest canteen volunteer - my mother. So I went to the school and spoke to the office staff and canteen manager, and warned them that my daughter was not to be taken out of class by my mother and not to be left alone with her, or allowed to be picked up by her after school. The school said they understood, and they'd send an email out to the teachers to get the message out.

About a week later, I received a phone call from the school principal to let me know that after my Mum's first canteen shift, she'd shown up at the office asking to have my daughter come out of class and see her. The staff member told her that they don't like to interrupt the kid's breaks and Mum left, and the principal said "I don't think she was very happy about it". I thanked her for letting me know and asked to pass along my thanks to the staff members as well.

I am just so tired of my Mum trying to push her way into my life, and trying to do it in ways where she can claim plausible deniability and pretend she's "just trying to help!" and make me out to be unreasonable. AIBU?? I've never told my daughter why she is never left alone with her grandma or babysat etc but maybe it would be reasonable to do so now?

How sad that OP has had to share more very personal information to convince posters that she is telling the truth.
OP doesn’t owe any of you any justification

This sounds like a nightmare situation @CrunchyApple3 but it sounds as though school have handled it well.

@LizJamIsFab

I’d leave school to manage your Mum.

I think only allowing her to see her grandchild once every 2-3 months at a meal (when more is possible) is quite harsh. I get that you want to treat her harshly but it’s blocking a close relationship.

Why did your Mum get involved/ worry about your body? I’m not saying her behaviour was good, but why did she do it? Can people never accept the past and move on? Being physically weak is not a reason not to be able to look after an 8 year old.

@LizJamIsFab Did you miss the part where OP said that her M physically abused her as a child? Where the M broke into OPs house? Where OP had zero privacy to change a tampon? Where the M made fun of OPs body?

OP should move on from that when the M is continuing there behaviours? She has not changed. She has not apologised. She has not recognised that these behaviours were wrong.

OPs mum did not "worry about her body", she bodyshamed her and mentally abused her.

FFS. People should not put up with being abused just because they are related to that person.

My PIL have been extremely extremely abusive towards my husband and I. As in, lawyers were hired, court orders have been made level of abusive.

I cannot believe the number of people who have pressured us to provide them with an opportunity to have a relationship with our small children.

Like OP, we know from actual lived experience, that someone is abusive and harmful to children, and yet we are expected by so many to allow them an 'opportunity' to harm our children as they have us.

No, I'm in the business of keeping my children safe, not offering them up as guinea pigs so that selfish flawed people can have yet another chance to prove just how selfish and flawed they are at a child's expense.

Fuck that.

Is it possible that your mum could be different with your dd? Is this about protecting your dd or about punishing your mother for your past relationship with her?

Did you even read the post? She physically abused the OP as a young child. People who physically abuse a child do not get a second chance to be ‘different’ with their grandchildren. The OP is protecting her child by ensuring they are never at risk of the same abuse, not punishing her mother.

I would make sure there is a paper trail with the school just in case you need to escalate it, I would also make sure they understand by using the terms low contact and abusive.

^ Absolutely this, OP.

It's important to hold the school accountable here and to be explicit about your home situation and the issues, so that they fully understand. As you say, there's no point in asking your mum to be reasonable (as she doesn't know how), so it's a case of relying on others enforcing boundaries to keep DD safe.

As you can see from this thread, people who haven't grown up with this kind of parenting have absolutely no idea how damaging it is, and teachers will likely have no clue as to the nature of her issues and of her delusional take on her own behaviour. Most people understandably interpret these things through the lens of their own experience, so they would have no idea of what you actually mean unless you spell it out. Personally, I've found that it's better not to give too many anecdotal examples as people take these as one-offs and look for a charitable explanation based on their own experience, so I would stick with explaining that you had an emotionally abusive childhood and you have made the decision to enforce strict boundaries to protect your own DD.

The fact they have employed your mum means they have obviously been taken in by her and she has portrayed her relationship with you and DD as being something very different from what it actually in in reality (as your mum will have given her fantasy version as that's where she lives).

She may well try to tell them that you are overprotective, etc etc and paint you to be the one with the issues, so it's very important that you hold the school accountable for your DD's safety and explain (ideally by email so there's a record) that DD is not allowed unsupervised contact with this woman outside of school and is therefore not to have contact with her in school either.

I couldn't keep a diary, get mail without her opening it, or get changed after a shower without her barging into my room and trying to look at me naked

This is a really disturbing level of obsessiveness.

She has no boundaries at all. The school will likely (hopefully) get the wind up and realise they have a potentially huge issue on their hands and will revoke the arrangement with her. I bloody hope so anyway.

After this latest stunt I’d be wanting to cut her off completely. She can lay in the bed she’s made.

An email thanking the head for acting so quickly and responsibly and pointing out again that is precisely why you warned them in the first place. Explain you are worried she will try again, but probably in a more sneaky fashion as she was thwarted last time. Ask that they have practices in place to prevent that, as it’s obviously a safeguarding issue. End by thanking them for their support.

The fact she’s got a job in the school and lives an hour away ... wow you are much calmer than I would be and are dealing with it really well OP.

I think calmly and professionally informing the school is necessary. They will be used to this sort of thing and it’s not dragging your troubles in or whatever you said. It’s about child protection.

@Babynames2

'Is it possible that your mum could be different with your dd? '

Are you kidding me? Anything is fucking possible I suppose.

But what responsible parent is going to deliberately put their child in the path of someone they know is abusive, on the off chance they have stopped being abusive?

Because it's 'punishing' them otherwise?

Ffs.

@LizJamIsFab

I’d leave school to manage your Mum.

I think only allowing her to see her grandchild once every 2-3 months at a meal (when more is possible) is quite harsh. I get that you want to treat her harshly but it’s blocking a close relationship.

Why did your Mum get involved/ worry about your body? I’m not saying her behaviour was good, but why did she do it? Can people never accept the past and move on? Being physically weak is not a reason not to be able to look after an 8 year old.

Wow! I'm guessing you were never brought up by a controlling narcissistic parent. Never experienced the terror and fear of every move being monitored, being too scared to make your own decisions, being so scared to even come home. It's absolutely terrifying the scars run very deep. It's not something you just get over and leave in the past....it affects every single minute of every single day.

Go NC and tell the school the problems. She sounds like a nightmare

Is it possible that your mum could be different with your dd? Is this about protecting your dd or about punishing your mother for your past relationship with her?

The mother refuses to acknowledge her own behaviour and the damage it has caused, so why on Earth would she be any different with OP's DD?

Would you take that risk with your own DC on the off chance a known abuser might have randomly changed?

From experience, my GM was exactly as intrusive with me as my mother was, and my mother has been exactly the same with my DC (now NC after years of LC). They can't help themselves.

She sounds dreadful. Hopefully the school won't keep her on after her probationary period. Make sure you confirm by email with the school what you have said and what she tried to do in taking a child out of a lesson.

@C0RINNA

We had a slightly similar situation - we were no contact due to abuse when I was a child and teenager.

My mother also tried to use the school for contact - she turned up outside the school at home time one day asking other parents where my DD was. They reported her to the janitor, who confronted her straight away and asked her what she was up to. She has some sob story about how she wasn’t allowed to see her GC and she had gifts for her.

The school phoned me straight away and I explained that the children never saw her as it was a safeguarding issue due to things that happened in my childhood.

They understood immediately and sent my mother away, explaining that they would call then police if she ever tried that again.

I think your situation is more complex as you still allow your mother to see your child. However what she has done with the school volunteering shows you that she’s an even bigger risk than you thought. She won’t accept the boundaries that you have set up to protect your child. So I’d be going NC if I were you.

I understand that you have allowed LC as it makes you feel less guilty than going NC. But I think you need to put your child’s welfare above your own feelings.

I’d recommend that you get some counselling as going NC can be hard. You’ve spent you whole life being taught that her wishes, feelings, views and opinions are more important than your own so it’s hard to change that.

And ignore that people who say you need to tell her why . Every single person who tries LC tells the parent why. And every parent says the same thing

“ I have no idea why they do this, they didn’t tell me and anyway it’s their fault. I don’t know how my child can be such a hateful and cruel person”.

So know now that’s what your mother will tell everyone. You need some counselling / therapy to help you hold those boundaries and keep you child safe.

From the school’s point of view, they have Done nothing wrong. It’s quite common for parents and Gp to volunteer in schools. Your child still sees their GP and you allow this. However I’d still do what @SnarkyBag says and make them aware of why it’s a problem for her to be alone with your child even in a school setting.

BTW never being alone is not enough to protect your child from an abuser. So many parents in your situation think they are smarter than the abuser and can outwit and control them.

You can’t. Abusers always find a way to abuse, even in plain sight. They whisper nasty comments, take the child to the toilet alone , say unkind things in public and then you don’t confront in case they make a scene.

It’s who they are. Your mother has been like this for ? 40 years or more. She’s not going to have a personality transplant now.

Excellent post, please take heed OP.

I’d ask the school to keep a really detailed note of every time she tries to access your daughter at school, and ask them what advice they can give on keeping dd safe. Explain Dm was abusive when you were a child/teen and has broken into your house before and that you are horrified that she is now in the school and you need tell anyone about it. Let them help.

You are being so brave, and fighting so hard to protect your dd from repeating your experience. How amazing you have become the mother you needed after such a start.

I am really surprised that the school had a volunteer start without checking if they had relations in the school and without then checking for safeguarding issues.
Anyone could do this.
A father/mother trying to access their child when not allowed.
I think they have some improvements to make to their recruitment processes

I wonder, if the OP had posted for advice having escaped an abusive male relative, how many of those poster's first reactions would be to question the details of the abuse and be concerned with forgiveness?

I think not many. I think it's some sort of perceived personal female guilt thing;

''Oh the poor old mother, oh the poor old grandmother, what harm can I - oh i mean they, have possibly done - you're overreacting''.

Interesting.

Another poster here saying heed Corinna's very wise post. Volunteering at the school should be setting off huge red flags for you. Yes, as another PP says her obsession is moving from you to your daughter and I would be considering going NC, or at least NC for your daughter even if LC for you right now. As another PP said would also be asking your school for their code of conduct and put in writing that your mother should have absolutely no contact. They really need to let her go... not appropriate at all.

@DifferentHair

My PIL have been extremely extremely abusive towards my husband and I. As in, lawyers were hired, court orders have been made level of abusive.

I cannot believe the number of people who have pressured us to provide them with an opportunity to have a relationship with our small children.

Like OP, we know from actual lived experience, that someone is abusive and harmful to children, and yet we are expected by so many to allow them an 'opportunity' to harm our children as they have us.

No, I'm in the business of keeping my children safe, not offering them up as guinea pigs so that selfish flawed people can have yet another chance to prove just how selfish and flawed they are at a child's expense.

Fuck that.

Absolutely right.

At this point I would go NC and contact the police. My mother is a dangerous woman and if she tried to play games with my children I wouldn't hesitate to put a stop to it. No matter what I had to do. The next generation has to be safe from the things we suffered.

I would email the principal, thanking them for their prompt action but stressing that this is a safeguarding situation. There could be a situation where the message about your dd is forgotten or a supply teacher isn't informed. You have every reason to believe that your mother, who has a history of being abusive and mentally unstable, might try something again.

Quite frankly this is not someone who should be working in a school full stop.

[quote AbsolutelyPatsy]@NeonDreams
how is that abuse?
the op wanted privacy
perhaps there was a reason that the op is not coming forward about,
i dont think that is abuse[/quote]
The op has said she suffered abuse and doesn't trust her mother. That is enough. She doesn't need to go into detail for posters like you who are trying to dismiss her. I'm beginning to think you're her bloody mother.