Grandma using school to get around low contact

[CrunchyApple3]

To be frank, I don't have a great relationship with my Mum. She's always behaved like she has this weird obsession with my life and that she's entitled to know everything about it. When I was a child living at home, this caused me no end of grief - I couldn't keep a diary, get mail without her opening it, or get changed after a shower without her barging into my room and trying to look at me naked. She would constantly criticise me and try to shame me, I grew up with massive confidence issues from listening to her negative comments about my body. There was some physical abuse too when I was very, very young but the mental stuff was far more damaging to me.

I'm a private person and I don't care for anyone, let alone my nosy Mum to know every detail of my life, and once I left home and started to assert my personal autonomy this caused her to get way more obsessive. The less I shared with her, the more she pushed. Once she even broke into my house while I was on holidays and went through my bedroom, then tried to claim that she was "only try to help" by cleaning it for me while I was away. I was 32 years old at that point! This was the trigger I needed to really set down some boundaries with her and not put up with her crazy anymore.

These have mostly worked and given me some space and peace of mind. While Mum stopped coming to my house whenever she felt like it, she is too proud to outright ask me if I'm up for a visitor, so instead she just does weird things like comes to my house (unannounced, still) and leaves things in my driveway for me to find later. It's bizarre as heck but it's like she's doing it just to have a little power flex? I don't know but I just let it be because pick your battles, I suppose?

I have an 8 year old who is in school. I have continued to keep my mother at arm's length, because over the years she's demonstrated to me that she's not a safe person for my kid to be around. Mum has never been left alone with my daughter, she's never babysat her or had her sleepover. Putting aside the fact that I don't trust her, Mum has some medical conditions that limit her mobility and physical strength. If there was some kind of emergency, I don't think she'd be able to react quickly. So my kid sees grandma once every 2-3 months or so - my partner and I will invite grandma over for dinner or we'll go out for lunch somewhere. The last time we had lunch together, Mum started talking about my daughter's school and asking whether they needed volunteers for the canteen. I told her that it was quite physical work involving needing to lift heavy trays of food out of the oven and that you need to be on your feet for most of the day, so not to worry about it. I wasn't bullshitting her, and she lives an hour away from us so I thought that would be the end of it.

But no, about a fortnight ago I got a message in the school p&c group chat welcoming their newest canteen volunteer - my mother. So I went to the school and spoke to the office staff and canteen manager, and warned them that my daughter was not to be taken out of class by my mother and not to be left alone with her, or allowed to be picked up by her after school. The school said they understood, and they'd send an email out to the teachers to get the message out.

About a week later, I received a phone call from the school principal to let me know that after my Mum's first canteen shift, she'd shown up at the office asking to have my daughter come out of class and see her. The staff member told her that they don't like to interrupt the kid's breaks and Mum left, and the principal said "I don't think she was very happy about it". I thanked her for letting me know and asked to pass along my thanks to the staff members as well.

I am just so tired of my Mum trying to push her way into my life, and trying to do it in ways where she can claim plausible deniability and pretend she's "just trying to help!" and make me out to be unreasonable. AIBU?? I've never told my daughter why she is never left alone with her grandma or babysat etc but maybe it would be reasonable to do so now?

”My Mum used to walk into my room and would immediately say "OH SORRY!!! Then immediately go back out covering her eyes if I was getting dressed.”

This is what any decent person does, @PerciphonePuma - but please show me where, in any of the OP’s posts, she says her mum apologised, covered her eyes or left the room.

I’ll spare you the effort - she didn’t say that anywhere. She said her mum stayed there and stared.

Are you honestly telling us that you can’t see the difference?

If she really BROKE INTO HER HOUSE then police would've been involved. I think the truth is, that the mum had a key
Very few people would call the police in their own mother once they realised it was her. That is the way abusers get away with stuff. And of course you didn’t describe your Mum going in with a key as breaking in, because it wasn’t a break in. The OP said ‘broke in’ not ‘let herself in’.

Don't you dare accuse me of apologizing for abuse Pretty fucking funny, since you dare say the OP’s account is immaculate or exaggerated, on no evidence whatsoever. Why are you allowed to ‘dare’ say stuff to posters but other people are not?

100% spot on, @MarianneUnfaithful!

OP ignore @PerciphonePuma and the others who have said you should forgive your Mum and allow her access to your child.

My DM thought like them. She was abused by her Dad as a child and thought he'd change with the Grandchildren. Unfortunately for me he hadn't changed.

It is so deeply offensive to read posters interpreting the OP's words and accuse her of exaggerating or misunderstanding her OWN life experiences/memories.

Really FXXKING annoying to read.

And really fxxking OFFENSIVE.

The OP has not come on MN to be given the third degree on her interpretation of HER bloody childhood.

Absolutely disgusting.

There are an astonishing number of people who are clearly desperate to minimise abusive behaviour to justify letting a grandmother see her grandchild. It's frankly bizarre. If you have abused someone as a child, continue to ignore their boundaries as an adult, and behave in ways which suggest you have developed no understanding of appropriate, normal behaviour and do not regret your past batshit behaviour, why on earth would you be allowed access to more children to abuse and traumatise? Just because you happen to be related to them?

@CrunchyApple3 you're doing brilliantly. You're clearly very strong, have very good boundaries of your own, and are doing your absolute best for your daughter. She is lucky to have you. I'm sorry you've had so many very strange people trying to make you doubt what you know happened in this thread, and making you share details you shouldn't have to share. Please ignore them as much as you can - they are out of line and apologists for abuse, and they should think carefully about why that is and why they're behaving this way. But that's not your problem. I'm glad the school is supporting you - I would talk to them and explain a bit more so that they have the full picture of why contact with your daughter would be so inappropriate and must not happen, because it might make them take it even more seriously. (Though I think schools tend to be better at this now than they used to be, which is reassuring.) I think the idea of making a note of all current and future unreasonable behaviour by your mother, with dates, would also be useful - especially if things end up escalating. I wish you and your family all the best and hope there's a happy ending to this for you, however it gets resolved.

”There are an astonishing number of people who are clearly desperate to minimise abusive behaviour to justify letting a grandmother see her grandchild. It's frankly bizarre. If you have abused someone as a child, continue to ignore their boundaries as an adult, and behave in ways which suggest you have developed no understanding of appropriate, normal behaviour and do not regret your past batshit behaviour, why on earth would you be allowed access to more children to abuse and traumatise? Just because you happen to be related to them?”

Absolutely perfectly worded, @MumInBrussels.

It's really eye-opening, well not really I suppose, to see some posters rushing and scrabbling to defend the OPs mother and discredit the OPs own experiences. And we wonder why the cycle of abuse continues and continues in society .

JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING DOESN'T SQUARE WITH YOUR OWN EXPERIENCES OR YOUR NARROW WORLD VIEW, IT DOESN'T MEAN IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. That clear enough for you?

And no there are not two sides to every story- as that would be victim blaming. What about people who are sexually and physically abused- whose side do you care most about- no need to tell me, I can guess

But marianne and others sum it up better.

OP I believe you, we perhaps have had similar experiences. ( No perciphone that doesn't make me biased, maybe just more empathetic, and that extends to others' situations where I can try and put myself in their shoes if I've not walked their path).

Do what is right and safe for you and your dc, crunchy, that's all that matters. You sound like your doing a fine job so far.

There is nothing worse to someone who has experienced abuse in childhood to have people doubt you, to try and infuse self-doubt into your memories and experiences, and to discredit those memories and experiences as misinterpretation and exaggeration etc, as the victim often grows up trying to tell themselves it couldn't have happened, it must be their imagination etc, as the reality is so horrible to hear.
These attitudes by some posters are just perpetuating that abuse and the self doubt it creates. As well as reinforce the "saint mother' narrative that victims of such 'mothers' have to deal with when finding the courage to talk about what happened to them. How dare you. Go and educate yourselves

OP - agree with the others you need an email to the schools designated safeguarding lead, thanking them for the swift action, offering to come in to discuss the situation.

I would think carefully if you want your dd to have any contact with your mother. You've tried limiting it and obviously that's not working as she's seen a boundary, and pushed around it.

Theres only a couple of weeks left until the end of term. Can you ask if they will be using her as a volunteer in September? Because long term how do they expect this to work or do they need you to move your dd to another school if they are going to keep your mother on as a volunteer?

Absolutely do NOT offer to move school, nor suggest it.

Their safe guarding team need to be emailed and reminded, thus creating a paper trail and headache for THEM.

OP. There are some horrible responses on here. I just want you to know I believe you. I had a similar upbringing and the horrific mental and emotional abuse, for me, was worse than physical abuse. I went NC with my mother and I never let her have any contact at all with my son. People like her never change.
You have to do what's best for you and your family.....and to protect your children from her.

OP, I absolutely second what PP have said. Pop it in writing to the school to acknowledge that they're already supporting your wishes but to confirm formally that the woman is to have no contact with your DD. Protect your DD and consider going completely NC with her, the lengths she's going to in order to access you and your life is frankly disturbing.

All those posters who are minimising the effect of child hood abuse on her, hang your heads!! My 'D'M wasn't nearly as controlling or abusive as OPs, but the effects of my upbringing haunt me daily. How bloody dare a single one of you decide you know more about someone's lived experiences.

See, this is the problem that adult survivors of childhood abuse have to deal with all the time - people ask for the details under the guise of "seeking to understand and support you" and then pick apart your abuse and gaslight you into thinking the parental behaviour that left deep emotional scars wasn't even that bad and everyone goes through stuff like that, it doesn't mean anything, you've misread the situation, etc.

It's exhausting having to "earn" your right to people's empathy or understanding by having to battle through more gaslighting in order for people to accept the basic premise of why your relationship with your parents is odd. As I've got older, I've realised that if people need the salacious details in order to be supportive, then it's likely a losing battle from the start with that person.

What worse for this thread is that PPs picking apart the situations OP has generously provided from her own history and reframing them forces OP to relive these events AND the gaslighting around them in order to get to any supportive or helpful posts in her thread. It's not even my story but just thinking back to similar events in my own childhood makes me feel sick to my stomach, so I can only imagine how harrowing it is for OP to have her experiences analysed and evaluated by strangers who can't take "I was abused" as a fact without probing the gory details.

Dear god the abuse apologist cunts are out in force - oh but she's your Mother! She can't possibly have been as bad as you say, because she's - well, your mother!

I get exactly the same from people who have NO IDEA why I am NC with my Father. 'You have to have him walk you down the aisle! He's your FATHER!' - and, unspoken, is the fact that he would be upset by me going NC. My feelings don't count.

I haven't spoken to him in 30 years, he's never seen my kids, I have NO IDEA if he's even still alive - but I still get people who just DO NOT GET IT. They had a lovely childhood, a lovely, helpful, loving father, and they don't get it! A mother, a father just wouldn't do that! It's impossible. Unbelievable.

except - it happens. And they are not worthy of the title of mother or father.

OP - I believe you. And you ARE doing the very BEST thing for your dd and for yourself, by reducing contact with her.

lorca
been through the exact same minimising especially from those with a good relationship with their parents "but she's your mother"

OP you will have a lot of this shit, people minimising the abuse and being like oh but she's your mum. Ignore those ignorant abuser siding twats, always put yourself and your daughter first. Definetly follow the good advice here about opening up to the school more and to the safeguarding lead.

My mother was very low contact with her mother, for very good reasons - for years she was gaslighted about it by her own family, including her half sisters. It wasn't until very much later that those same half sisters also experienced what their mother was like and changed their mind. My mother, like you, did not recreate the mistakes of the past. You are wonderful, and you should do whatever you need to safeguard your DD from your batshit mother.

The "but she's your mother" "she's the only mother you'll have"
Yeah shame she's a fucking psychopath
Fucking judgemental abuse apologist cunts

OP - ignore all the people on here with their gaslighting and abuse apologies and minimising your boundaries and DARVO-ing.

Those people are your mother's people. Take a look at the Issendai blogs on estrangement and in particular the bits on forums for estranged parents if you want to learn more about that.

Perhaps also look at But It's Your Family... by Dr Sherrie Campbell or the Toxic Parents and Toxic In-Laws books by Susan Forward. Lots of good advice in those for setting and keeping your boundaries and for dealing with people who don't like them. And that includes total strangers who think they know your life better than you do.

Remember - nobody has to understand your decisions to be low contact with your mother and to protect your daughter from her, but they do have to respect them.

That includes your mother. You've already given her your reasons, any engagement now along the lines of "but why..." or "but I don't understand..." are just manipulations to force you to engage further so she / other people can tell you why you are wrong. She doesn't want to know what she did, she wants to find a way to convince you that you're wrong to hold her to account for it and set a boundary to stop her from doing it again.

Sorry to interrupt your thread, OP, we just wanted to remind everyone that we do not advocate victim blaming on Mumsnet. We will remove victim-blaming posts, so please do report any of these that you see, and we will take a closer look.

but she's your mother
I would reply, yes how could she treat my like that, no wonder I want shut of her!

[quote AbsolutelyPatsy]@SunshineCake
i have been shouted down for alternate points of view,
no need to carry on digging the knife in,
get your kicks elsewhere[/quote]
No kicks being got here. Or attempted . Nor was I attempting to dig the knife in as I'm not petty. You weren't shouted down for an alternative point of view btw.

@CrunchyApple3 you are doing the right thing.

I'm not about to say my situation but my children have been kept away from he woman who gave birth to me their whole lives. She was a terrible parent to me. No way was she getting anywhere near my children.

Honestly, I'd be honest with the school about your concerns for your daughter's safety and ask that they not allow your mum to volunteer anymore.

But what I really wonder (with kindness) is why you are still facilitating contact between mum and your daughter. Do the benefits to you and DD outway the risks? You must use a lot of mental energy monitoring the situation. I'd suggest a visit to the Stately Homes thread as I feel you are just facilitating a relationship out of obligation or guilt (although I could also be projecting as there your post resonated withy own circumstances).