To be utterly shocked by the penalty charge notices I have received from Waltham Forest?

[libertybonds]

I'm interested to know whether I am just a bad driver. I have received two penalty charge notices from Waltham Forest based on CCTV footage for the following 'offences.' I should mention that I don't know these roads and I was using satnav:

1. I approached a large junction. Painted on the road was an indication that you could go left or straight. I mistakenly thought the bus lane was the left turn lane so I moved there to turn. There were no buses around, and in the footage it's clear that I moved to this lane just as I approached the junction. I'm 100% sure that after I turned left I realised my error and moved to the correct lane. Again, no buses anywhere in sight.

1. I entered into a box junction behind a large vehicle. Traffic suddenly slowed and the tail end of my vehicle was in the junction. In the footage, you can actually see me move my vehicle into a lane that would take me in the wrong direction from where I wanted to go in order to move out of the box junction.

So, who is right? Me or Waltham Forest? Do I deserve to pay a combined £260 for these offences?

OP, thank you for such an entertaining evening and being a generally good (albeit completely indignant and wrong) sport! You could easily have got completely arsey and aggressive, but for once, you adhered to the guidelines and remained pleasant. Thank you.

I will go to bed thinking about what other rules you consider draconian and that don’t apply to you! I’ll start on…shoplifting! 🤣

@FerretFumbler I think I'm so upset because I hate breaking rules and I legitimately didn't perceive myself to be breaking any! I mean, how dare they!!!

Thanks for joining the fun - this thread really took off!

[quote libertybonds]@FerretFumbler I think I'm so upset because I hate breaking rules and I legitimately didn't perceive myself to be breaking any! I mean, how dare they!!!

Thanks for joining the fun - this thread really took off![/quote]
As long as it didn't take off any faster than 30mph.

YANBU

As long as it didn't take off any faster than 30mph

Or 20 if it’s in a built up area

@MaMelon

As long as it didn't take off any faster than 30mph

Or 20 if it’s in a built up area

Fair point m'lady, fair point.

@VerticalHorizon

@TastyTicklemore aw, thanks. I probably prefer it here overall, though the UK constantly seems to be borrowing our worst habits!

@VerticalHorizon

[quote libertybonds]@LakieLady your description of your town hilariously explains exactly why some lenience seemingly would be a positive thing! Sounds like any visitors would get totally shafted as it sounds ridiculously confusing.[/quote]
Yeah, they really should widen the roads and get rid of all the medieval, Tudor, and Georgian buildings.

We don't have any enforcement cameras, but could really do with one to stop dickheads blocking the yellow box junction at the crossroads halfway along the high street.

@MaMelon

I have no fucking idea what you mean here

No surprise there.

Well what did you mean? You called me a racist. I am obviously so stupid that you will have to explain how you came to that conclusion.

Please tell the whole class @MaMelon!

I'm interested to know whether I am just a bad driver.

Rest assured that I will do my best to follow the letter of the law in the future, even if it leads to what I would consider (and have been taught is) bad and inefficient driving.

Typically, in the United States, a technical violation that doesn't cause any harm will generally be ignored.

I lived in the US for a couple of years...I guess that's just as well as it seemed to me that no one (bar random Brits) knew what to do at 'traffic circles' and 4-way stops weren't much better.

@ErrolTheDragon oh yeah, roundabouts are confusing and terrifying to Americans!

I can actually buy the box junction one even though I think it's the kind of offence that should be excused with discretion

nobody in local government is going to excuse offences with discretion. They want your ££££.

perhaps go to them and state finances will be abit difficult and they might let you pay it over 3 or 6 months

I'm sorry you find British laws and their enforcement so unreasonable.

I got a fine for putting one wheel into a Spanish bus lane. It's the way they run things there so I had to pay up. Whether or not the same would have applied in any other country was neither here nor there.

Hi @libertybonds, you might find this an interesting read thegrumpygit.com/how-to-appeal-a-yellow-box-junction-ticket/

Someone I know successfully appealed a yellow box ticket. I think their grounds were that they were following moving traffic which was on CCTV. I might not be correct in this.

I wonder if you're talking about the same bus lane I drive into along Whipps Cross road?! It ends just as you approach the roundabout and so I followed my satnav and moved into the left lane not realising till it was too late

You have asked if it is unreasonable to be fined for these offences. Whether we agree with how strict they are is a different matter.
You committed an offence and have been charged for it.
I don’t agree that cannabis should be illegal however, I follow the rules as everyone else does.
Your ignorance of the rules unfortunately does not give you a free pass.

All I can say is that you’ll be far more careful next time. Different rules apply in different places, some bus lanes are open at different times, the signs are there to tell you.

I should mention that I don't know these roads and I was using satnav That is no excuse.

[quote libertybonds]@MotionActivatedDog do you think it's fair for someone to be charged £130 every time they make a small error? I think that I may need to sell my car. I can't really afford to pay this every month. I have had a car since December and I haven't had any issues until being slammed with these two fines in one go.[/quote]
You crossed a solid white line to enter the bus lane, that's really not something you should. Be doing accidentally.

That's a really really big lapse in judgement, I'd be thinking your lucky you didn't get points as those 2 mistakes show you're really not driving with the proper care and attention.

@Orangelemon2

You have asked if it is unreasonable to be fined for these offences. Whether we agree with how strict they are is a different matter. You committed an offence and have been charged for it. I don’t agree that cannabis should be illegal however, I follow the rules as everyone else does. Your ignorance of the rules unfortunately does not give you a free pass.

All I can say is that you’ll be far more careful next time. Different rules apply in different places, some bus lanes are open at different times, the signs are there to tell you.

When you flash your headlights do you mean "after you/you go first" or do you mean "I am coming through using my right of way stay where you are"

[quote libertybonds]@yourestandingonmyneck obviously not! But frankly it seems difficult to avoid getting a PNC given how minor these offences are. What other terrible things might I accidentally do?[/quote]
Well the two offences are comparable driving on the wrong side of the road on double white lines (you crossed a solid line into a lane you shouldn't be in)

And the other is running a red light. (You where in oncoming traffics way while they had right of way)

Nothing went wrong this time so you got a warning and some money taken off you to remember the lesson.

But you have to see how both of those offences have the opertunity to be dangerous, they're the thin end of the wedge

[quote libertybonds]@TastyTicklemore I understand what you are saying. I truly think this shows a cultural difference in how rules are applied and interpreted - at least in the context of traffic offences. Typically, in the United States, a technical violation that doesn't cause any harm will generally be ignored. (other than some super strict, safety-based ones like disobeying traffic lights)

There also isn't this (to my mind) invasive surveillance state system where everything is on CCTV. It is actually very creepy to me. It's like the government is lying in wait to pounce on the smallest technical error.

It's difficult to explain how stressful it is. Honestly, I can imagine making more driving mistakes due to being super anxious about how everything is monitored.[/quote]
yeah cctv or the PATRIOT act? I know which I find creepy.
Don't you find it weird that any phone call you have with a non American can be listened to by your government without a warrant?

@Madcatgal21 that's the one! There are screenshots in the thread. Maybe I should have included a diagram too