To be utterly shocked by the penalty charge notices I have received from Waltham Forest?

[libertybonds]

I'm interested to know whether I am just a bad driver. I have received two penalty charge notices from Waltham Forest based on CCTV footage for the following 'offences.' I should mention that I don't know these roads and I was using satnav:

1. I approached a large junction. Painted on the road was an indication that you could go left or straight. I mistakenly thought the bus lane was the left turn lane so I moved there to turn. There were no buses around, and in the footage it's clear that I moved to this lane just as I approached the junction. I'm 100% sure that after I turned left I realised my error and moved to the correct lane. Again, no buses anywhere in sight.

1. I entered into a box junction behind a large vehicle. Traffic suddenly slowed and the tail end of my vehicle was in the junction. In the footage, you can actually see me move my vehicle into a lane that would take me in the wrong direction from where I wanted to go in order to move out of the box junction.

So, who is right? Me or Waltham Forest? Do I deserve to pay a combined £260 for these offences?

@libertybonds

I think the issue here is that some of you think it should have been obvious to me that this is how the rules should be applied. It really doesn't have to be that way, and nothing is going to make me think it's not stupid.

I accept now that these rules are applied rigidly to the point of absurdity. Now that I understand this, I'm sure that I will be a lot "better" driver under this system.

In that the rules... were applied? Do you think they shouldn't be applied consistently? Yes, you will be a better driver if you don't break the rules, that's kind of the point.

I think what you’re deeming rules being applied “rigidly to the point of absurdity” many people would see as rules being applied consistently and fairly.

Just came up on BBC News….OP in a bus lane??

@TheUndoingProject

I think what you’re deeming rules being applied “rigidly to the point of absurdity” many people would see as rules being applied consistently and fairly.

Exactly. OP you are not a special case, doesn't matter if you agree with the rule or not, like it or not, it is applied across the board to everyone which is fair. I've driven in many countries and found some of their rules absurd still didn't think that they shouldn't be applied to me if I broke them.

Just to clarify that you can enter and stop in a box junction if you are turning right. It's not a total prohibition in all circumstances.

These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (download 'Road markings'). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right.

Using the road - Road junctions (170 to 183) - THE HIGHWAY ...www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk › road-junctions

@ThursdayWeld I'm from that notably lax, laissez-faire nation the United States.

I drove there constantly for at least 12 years while living in 4 different cities of varying sizes. I also drove cross country multiple times, and in heavy traffic in several unfamiliar major cities.

I had a traffic accident once when I first started driving, a couple of completely-deserved speeding tickets, and once, in my teens, i was cited for rolling (slowly) through a stop sign when turning late at night. This was widely regarded as bad luck and stupidity on my part because a police officer happened to be passing by.

Other than that, I have a totally clean driving record. I don't think I received any citations or anything in my last 5 years driving there.

OP, I’m guessing from your reference to NJ that you’re American. From personal experience of moving there and back again, if you are going to continue driving in the UK then you need to hit reset on a lot of your preconceptions because the culture of driving, and especially how it is policed, is so very different. It is not a good thing to give discretion on driving offenses to individual officers. I’m not in a demographic which particularly has to worry about being pulled over but tbh I find it much easier that I don’t have to worry about being pulled over by an officer who’s having a bad day, or who is a Broncos fan when I’m driving DH’s car with a Patriots bumper sticker.

The picture you posted might suggest that the punishment is harsh but it would be the same for literally anyone in the same position. I’d much rather have a harsher system applied consistently and fairly. My cousin in the States drives like an absolute maniac but has never been written up because he has veterans’ plates.

@FerretFumbler

Just came up on BBC News….OP in a bus lane??

Hahaha ffs

And my point is that no one should be receiving fines for the kinds of mistakes I made.

I recognised above that the box junction one might be justifiable because I misjudged it, but I think in the US the effort to mitigate would have had a mitigating effect.

@NotAnotherHelen this is a valid point. Honestly it's hard for me to deal with such a harsh system, but I can see that POC, for example, don't always fare well when laws aren't applied equally (and in fact may experience the US system as being more harsh than I have)

I get the box junction, but that bus lane one is very strict. I’ve had that happen before to me too, although penalty notices are cheaper where I am.

@FerretFumbler that's funny because I think of Tory cunts as being the types to impose minor rules in the most Draconian way possible (case in point: the lovely "hostile environment" I've had to deal with)

@ThursdayWeld you’re right, you are supposed to wait until the exit is fully clear.

It’s just become de rigueur on city roads to judge when you can drive across and not end up blocking the box. Most times it works out, occasionally people get unlucky and end up with a small bit of car in the junction. There are lots of city roads where if you hang back waiting for a full clear space ahead of the box you’ll never get across it at all because other cars will come from left or right before that full space in front of the box is clear. So if you abide by the rules and hang back, everyone beeps you for holding them up. Sometimes you have to use common sense and go for it when you think you can make it, and sometimes you end up with a bit of car in the box, but that small bit of car doesn’t block the box so it doesn’t cause any other drivers any issues. It’s not exactly as per the rules but it’s common driver behaviour. The majority of drivers do tiny things that break the rules all the time, for example hardly anyone indicates at roundabouts any more, and people rush through the lights at the last second before they turn red.

I’d love it if drivers were issued tickets for not indicating at roundabouts!

[quote libertybonds]@FerretFumbler that's funny because I think of Tory cunts as being the types to impose minor rules in the most Draconian way possible (case in point: the lovely "hostile environment" I've had to deal with)[/quote]
Waltham Forest is a Labour council. London (which approves Waltham Forest's traffic fines) has a Labour Mayor.

But you crack on about Tory cunts

@FerretFumbler that said, very on point graphic . Got a bit carried away with my indignation!

Waltham Forest is a Labour council. London (which approves Waltham Forest's traffic fines) has a Labour Mayor.

But you crack on about Tory cunts

Never fails does it ThursdayWeld - "waa, waa, waa it's so unfair, you're all stupid and so inferior to me, I'm special and all Tories are cunts, it's all their fault"

Yeah, that’s exactly it

Yeah, that's exactly the attitude OP has shown throughout the thread.

The comment about Tories is just par for the course of her lack of awareness and assumptions.

The 'hostile environment' and getting a fine for driving in a bus lane are not the same thing and nor do they stem from the same culture. Driving cars is (with a few exceptions) unnecessary and undesirable in densely populated areas. That's why public transport is reasonably cheap and driving is made difficult.

I think you are feeling a bit homesick/having culture shock otherwise you would just acknowledge that this is something that's handled differently here from your own country. On the plus side you're more likely to get a fine for driving in a box junction but much less likely to get shot.

She's clearly not used to a traffic rules system that isn't vulnerable to corruption or racism.

No it’s not exactly the attitude she’s shown - it’s your opinion. Which is fine, obviously, but that doesn’t make it fact.

[quote libertybonds]@MotionActivatedDog do you think it's fair for someone to be charged £130 every time they make a small error? I think that I may need to sell my car. I can't really afford to pay this every month. I have had a car since December and I haven't had any issues until being slammed with these two fines in one go.[/quote]
Two "issues" in 6 months is pretty diabolical, tbh.

And yes, the penalties are pretty standard imo. There may be a "discount" if you pay promptly.

It is perfectly easy to avoid penalties if you drive as you should, stick to the highway code and pay attention. Driving in bus lanes and not observing the rules at box junctions shows that you have either have little regard for the rules of the road or are simply not on the ball when behind the wheel.

WTAF Thursday

@MaMelon

WTAF Thursday

Why the shock? She said it herself. Eventually.

[quote libertybonds]@ThursdayWeld I'm from that notably lax, laissez-faire nation the United States.

I drove there constantly for at least 12 years while living in 4 different cities of varying sizes. I also drove cross country multiple times, and in heavy traffic in several unfamiliar major cities.

I had a traffic accident once when I first started driving, a couple of completely-deserved speeding tickets, and once, in my teens, i was cited for rolling (slowly) through a stop sign when turning late at night. This was widely regarded as bad luck and stupidity on my part because a police officer happened to be passing by.

Other than that, I have a totally clean driving record. I don't think I received any citations or anything in my last 5 years driving there.[/quote]
The more I read, the worse your driving sounds, OP. An accident and 4 tickets in 12 years shows negligence and disregard for traffic rules.