To be utterly shocked by the penalty charge notices I have received from Waltham Forest?

[libertybonds]

I'm interested to know whether I am just a bad driver. I have received two penalty charge notices from Waltham Forest based on CCTV footage for the following 'offences.' I should mention that I don't know these roads and I was using satnav:

1. I approached a large junction. Painted on the road was an indication that you could go left or straight. I mistakenly thought the bus lane was the left turn lane so I moved there to turn. There were no buses around, and in the footage it's clear that I moved to this lane just as I approached the junction. I'm 100% sure that after I turned left I realised my error and moved to the correct lane. Again, no buses anywhere in sight.

1. I entered into a box junction behind a large vehicle. Traffic suddenly slowed and the tail end of my vehicle was in the junction. In the footage, you can actually see me move my vehicle into a lane that would take me in the wrong direction from where I wanted to go in order to move out of the box junction.

So, who is right? Me or Waltham Forest? Do I deserve to pay a combined £260 for these offences?

I don’t get the hysterical reaction to jaywalking or u-turns in parts of the US but I just obey the rules when I am there rather than banging on about how absurd it is .

Oh don’t come over all innocent - you know exactly what you meant there. Own your own racism.

As for a UK traffic system that’s not open to corruption - yeah right.

I paid my parking fine in California

@MaMelon

No it’s not exactly the attitude she’s shown - it’s your opinion. Which is fine, obviously, but that doesn’t make it fact.

Assumes the rules and regulations won't be enforced, assumes the reason they are in place and enforced is down to the Tories even though it is a Labour Council backed by a Labour Mayor, insists the way it's done in her country of origin is far better, pretty factual I would say.

Nope - your opinion, your interpretation.

@MaMelon

Oh don’t come over all innocent - you know exactly what you meant there. Own your own racism.

As for a UK traffic system that’s not open to corruption - yeah right.

You what @MaMelon? This is what the OP said:

Honestly it's hard for me to deal with such a harsh system, but I can see that POC, for example, don't always fare well when laws aren't applied equally (and in fact may experience the US system as being more harsh than I have)

And their system is clearly open to corruption when, as a PP said, it's up to the individual police officer as to whether you get charged - hence vets getting away with bad driving. And others, I'm sure.

Why you are accusing me of racism, I have no idea

@MaMelon

Oh don’t come over all innocent - you know exactly what you meant there. Own your own racism.

As for a UK traffic system that’s not open to corruption - yeah right.

I have no fucking idea what you mean here. Own your own stupidity, thanks.

@MaMelon

Nope - your opinion, your interpretation.

Read the Op's posts, the attitude is clear.

@libertybonds that one at the Green Man roundabout bus lane is well known. Is the ‘end of bus lane’ sign up at the moment? Check- it was missing recently.
It’s a bitch, the tarmac marking end and there’s a 4/5 car length gap before the end of bus lane sign. Loads of people get caught as the road markings/ red tarmac ends, they see the arrow left and presume they can move lanes.

@VerticalHorizon

I've been to this beauty!

Is that near St Albans?

If not, I've been round a roundabout very similar. It was ... novel.

Read the Op's posts, the attitude is clear

I’ve read them. I repeat - your opinion on her attitude is your opinion, not fact.

@TheViewFromTheCheapSeats yes, that's the one!

I have no fucking idea what you mean here

No surprise there.

@MaMelon

Read the Op's posts, the attitude is clear

I’ve read them. I repeat - your opinion on her attitude is your opinion, not fact.

By the same token then your opinion that the OP's doesn't have the attitude I ascribe to her from reading her posts is just that your opinion.

Absolutely - which is why I haven’t used the words “pretty factual I would say” in any of my posts. See the difference?

@ThePlantsitter

The 'hostile environment' and getting a fine for driving in a bus lane are not the same thing and nor do they stem from the same culture. Driving cars is (with a few exceptions) unnecessary and undesirable in densely populated areas. That's why public transport is reasonably cheap and driving is made difficult.

Sorry to say, that's the exact purpose of the hostile environment. Make it very difficult to follow the rules, impose Draconian and unreasonable rules, keep people out. It's in the name...

Let me repeat: I don't think I'm special. I think that the way that the rules are enforced here is stupid and rigid.

I recognise that some people like strict rules, and for them to be applied strictly and that there are policy reasons for this style of rule enforcement. However, I find this system oppressive.

Rest assured that I will do my best to follow the letter of the law in the future, even if it leads to what I would consider (and have been taught is) bad and inefficient driving.

[quote libertybonds]@ThePlantsitter

The 'hostile environment' and getting a fine for driving in a bus lane are not the same thing and nor do they stem from the same culture. Driving cars is (with a few exceptions) unnecessary and undesirable in densely populated areas. That's why public transport is reasonably cheap and driving is made difficult.

Sorry to say, that's the exact purpose of the hostile environment. Make it very difficult to follow the rules, impose Draconian and unreasonable rules, keep people out. It's in the name...[/quote]
Actually I see what you mean now. I just think cars are on the way out and that's not a bad thing (I'm a hypocrite because I drive in London too).

@VerticalHorizon

Good road design should mean that the layout is easily read in plenty of time by visitors and locals alike - so many roads have substandard markings, poorly displayed signs and require drivers to have intimate knowledge of the road layout.

I tend to agree, but the UK road system has evolved in a hurry to cope for traffic. It's not a nicely planned grid system, it's the work (mess) of many years.

Putting things right for the modern age is a logistical and financial nightmare.

You only have to look at major motorways being made wider, only to be at full capacity again within a decade.

And in a lot of towns the road layouts have been virtually unchanged since Victorian times, or even earlier.

The roads in the centre of the town where I live basically follow the medieval street plan. They're narrow, some are single lane only but two-way (controlled by traffic lights), most are one-way and we have lots of no left- or no right turns, even when the road isn't no entry from other directions and for no discernible reason.

It only takes one driver being a pillock to gridlock the whole town in the rush hour. Maybe our council should have some cameras and hefty fines.

@libertybonds

And here is my car, what I got busted for.

Yeah. That's clearly a solid white so should not be crossed. I had wondered if the road markings had worn away - as happens too often - but they look super clear to me.

@ThePlantsitter I'm with you! I only got a car in lockdown, because I had to transport my daughter to her father safely and it's easier to get drive-in covid tests etc.

I actually never thought I would have a car in London, but unfortunately it's become somewhat necessary.

@LakieLady your description of your town hilariously explains exactly why some lenience seemingly would be a positive thing! Sounds like any visitors would get totally shafted as it sounds ridiculously confusing.

@libertybonds

Let me repeat: I don't think I'm special. I think that the way that the rules are enforced here is stupid and rigid.

I recognise that some people like strict rules, and for them to be applied strictly and that there are policy reasons for this style of rule enforcement. However, I find this system oppressive.

Rest assured that I will do my best to follow the letter of the law in the future, even if it leads to what I would consider (and have been taught is) bad and inefficient driving.

At the risk of poking a hornets nest - which I am genuinely not trying to do. Aren't all rules strict? Otherwise they are not rules, they are guidelines.

I point it out because it clarifies why they are so binary. There is no room for middle ground with rules, that's pretty much the point of them.

@TastyTicklemore I understand what you are saying. I truly think this shows a cultural difference in how rules are applied and interpreted - at least in the context of traffic offences. Typically, in the United States, a technical violation that doesn't cause any harm will generally be ignored. (other than some super strict, safety-based ones like disobeying traffic lights)

There also isn't this (to my mind) invasive surveillance state system where everything is on CCTV. It is actually very creepy to me. It's like the government is lying in wait to pounce on the smallest technical error.

It's difficult to explain how stressful it is. Honestly, I can imagine making more driving mistakes due to being super anxious about how everything is monitored.

Also - I have lived in a country that wasn't my own and faced rules I personally found bizarre. Raging against them only ever brought misery to me and was usually more about me missing home more than the rule itself.

I don't know if that applies to you OP but if it does, you have my empathy. Homesickness for a place you feel more comfortable and secure (or whatever) is a really unhappy feeling. It makes you look at your adopted home through more resentful eyes and strips you of the energy to cope with every day frustrations. if that's you right now.