To be utterly shocked by the penalty charge notices I have received from Waltham Forest?

[libertybonds]

I'm interested to know whether I am just a bad driver. I have received two penalty charge notices from Waltham Forest based on CCTV footage for the following 'offences.' I should mention that I don't know these roads and I was using satnav:

1. I approached a large junction. Painted on the road was an indication that you could go left or straight. I mistakenly thought the bus lane was the left turn lane so I moved there to turn. There were no buses around, and in the footage it's clear that I moved to this lane just as I approached the junction. I'm 100% sure that after I turned left I realised my error and moved to the correct lane. Again, no buses anywhere in sight.

1. I entered into a box junction behind a large vehicle. Traffic suddenly slowed and the tail end of my vehicle was in the junction. In the footage, you can actually see me move my vehicle into a lane that would take me in the wrong direction from where I wanted to go in order to move out of the box junction.

So, who is right? Me or Waltham Forest? Do I deserve to pay a combined £260 for these offences?

[quote YellowSunshineSky]@ThursdayWeld OP said the traffic suddenly slowed and the tail end of her car was left in the junction.

So the way I understand it, based on the current traffic flow she'd assessed that she would make it fully through the box junction and her assessment would have been correct, but then the traffic suddenly slowed to a stop unexpectedly, leaving a small bit of her car in the box.[/quote]
Yes, traffic does that. Which is why you're not supposed to enter a box junction until your exit is clear.

It's really not very complicated. @YellowSunshineSky

@libertybonds

To the people who think it was right for me to get a fine for moving lanes NOT at the last minute in an area of almost no traffic at 8pm when there were no buses around, I truly have no words.

Why would you possibly need to remain carefully out of the bus lane under these circumstances? What an idiotic approach to enforcement.

For the same reasons I have to stick to the speed limit even when nobody is around. You know the rules, you can't make them up just because it suits you at a specific time of day.

Take it to court, you'll lose. Why? because you're in the wrong. Accept it. It sucks, but accept it.

@FerretFumbler Nice trolling! I'm done with you. I obviously believed I was following the rules because it didn't occur to me that it would matter in the slightest, or be considered a violation, if I were to move lanes as I approached the junction when I clearly had a right to move into that lane and there were no buses around.

OP I would absolutely appeal that (probably de minimus).

Yes you deserved both fines. The fact that you don't think you do makes me support your idea of selling your car as clearly you don't think the rules should apply to you.

@libertybonds

To the people who think it was right for me to get a fine for moving lanes NOT at the last minute in an area of almost no traffic at 8pm when there were no buses around, I truly have no words.

Why would you possibly need to remain carefully out of the bus lane under these circumstances? What an idiotic approach to enforcement.

But the thing is, regardless of what you think of the rules, or why you broke the rules (and how much you can justify to yourself it in your head) in both instances you were not careful and therefore broke them.

You unfortunately got caught and you got a fine. I'm afraid it's a 'suck it up and be more careful next time' moment

Tell us the road deaths per person and per billion miles in your home country and we’ll decide whether you’re right to claim their system is preferable.

I don't know why you keep repeating that there were no buses around, it is totally irrelevant and bus lanes still aren't open to general traffic whether you can see a bus.

You didn't have "a right to move into that lane" hence the fine.

OP, have a look at the junction concerned in Google Street View. Looking at the photo's it seems that the intrusion into the bus lane was minimal, albeit difficult to measure given the angle ogf the photo's. Allowing for the start of the arrow showing the route split, it seems to be roughly level with the end of the bus lane line. If this is the case then it seems that the intrusion is less than a cars length. The Pepipoo site and its experts may be able to help you.

@CastawayQueen

If the exit was clear when you entered the box junction and traffic suddenly slowed + only your wheels were on it you weren’t really blocking it were uou?

You what?

Not trolling at all. Just wondering why you seem so insistent that you weren’t in the wrong.

And as for, In my home country, there aren't bus lanes like this. But there is an expectation that people drive sensibly and with respect for other drivers.

There is an expectation that all drivers know the rules of the road in whatever country they are driving in. No excuse. It would seem prudent to you make yourself aware of the regulations in the UK before starting your engine, no?

You need to stop comparing with your home country. You aren’t driving their so the rules of the road there are irrelevant.

I couldn’t go to France and drive on the wrong side of the road and justify it with “well we drive on this side in my home country”

OP it’s not easy to see how far along you were in the picture. The absolute rule is not to cross the solid white line that shows the bus lane, but it’s not enforced everywhere by cctv. However if you’d been seen by Police you could have been fined. Did you see all the posters pointing out the discount for early payment?

PattyPan

Yes you deserved both fines. The fact that you don't think you do makes me support your idea of selling your car as clearly you don't think the rules should apply to you

Leaning that way myself.
AIBU? Yes, there are rules and you broke them…then pages and pages of why she thinks she these rules don’t apply to her!

You were more than a full car length when you crossed the white line.

It's not a lot in the grand scheme, but your front wheel would have crossed the white line with a clear car length of white line in front of you. If it had been a trailing (back end) that crossed the line, you might have put it down to a slight misjudgment, to start crossing the line when you did, you're screwed.

Op it’s not about logical driving it’s about revenue collection for cash strapped councils. They don’t give a shit and often actively mislead with bad signage etc to get extra money from drivers (Waltham Forest is particularly bad for this). If you’ve only got a car in London recently, yes your going to get fined for the next few months, it’s shit but it is just the way of the city

FAO LIBERTYBONDS

Between the hours of 11:37 and 18:03 on the 1st July 2021, you were recorded making excuses for driving contraventions, and in turn disrupting chat flow driving vehicle MUM 5NET.

You are hereby issued with PRICELESS CHAT NINCOMPOOP fine.

@LibertyBonds - please take it in jest, as a bit of fun to lighten the mood!

@VerticalHorizon

:-)

Well, at least you take that well!

Fair play.

@libertybonds

To the people who think it was right for me to get a fine for moving lanes NOT at the last minute in an area of almost no traffic at 8pm when there were no buses around, I truly have no words.

Why would you possibly need to remain carefully out of the bus lane under these circumstances? What an idiotic approach to enforcement.

It's a solid white line which you are not allowed to cross, in future imagine it is a wall and don't move over until the end of it.

Lack of traffic and no buses matter not one jot I'm afraid the solid white line is still there and the restrictions apply. If you come up to a red light and there's no traffic around would you just carry on?

[quote libertybonds]@ThursdayWeld the red light comparison is really bizarre.

In my home country, there aren't bus lanes like this. But there is an expectation that people drive sensibly and with respect for other drivers. I definitely thought I was moving aside to make way for the rest of the traffic.[/quote]
Op we understand things are run much better in your home country. Sadly for you, and for all of us, we're all having to drive in this shithole now.
At least in your case you may even have an option to look elsewhere, unlike us poor UK residents, destined to live out our days in thsi horrible place with it's filthy bus lanes and box junctions.

Unfortunately there's no leeway. Once your caught, you're caught. To you, the bus Lane incident might seem ridiculous. But the facts are you're not allowed into a bus Lane in restricted hours, and you drove into a bus Lane in restricted hours. And your back wheels in a box junction is all that's needed to get a fine.
This kind of thing has happened to me several times over the years. It's rubbish, but it is what it is.

I think the issue here is that some of you think it should have been obvious to me that this is how the rules should be applied. It really doesn't have to be that way, and nothing is going to make me think it's not stupid.

I accept now that these rules are applied rigidly to the point of absurdity. Now that I understand this, I'm sure that I will be a lot "better" driver under this system.

I'd love to know where your home country is, with its relaxed traffic laws that let anyone off because they were "following the sat nav" or "felt" that a rule shouldn't apply to them...