To consider Cry It Out?

[Schrutesbeets]

DS is 9 months, has been BF and bed shared since birth, till arohnd 6 weeks ago. he sleeps in his cot for naps but won't at night. Have tried gentle methods, nothing is working and he wakes constantly through the night and wakes DD(3)too.
I was always very opposed to CIO, but I'm going back to work soon and cannot function on as little sleep as I'm having. I am run down, irritable and getting regular headaches as a result. We cannot afford a sleep consultant and now I feel CIO may be the only solution!
Any advice / experience of CIO much appreciated.

We did the Ferber method with both of ours when they were about 9 to 10 months. Worked like a dream.

Oh Ferber is amazing OP!! Honestly amazing. Consistency is key though so do it when you haven't got loads to do during the day as you will be extra tired until it kicks in .

Cry it out isn't a technique.

It's a way to make giving up sound palatable.

Thanks Chicchicchicchiclana and ForeverSausages, there is hope yet!!!

@Tossblanket

Cry it out isn't a technique.

It's a way to make giving up sound palatable.

That's not helpful at all.

OP isn't a fan of CIO, so if she feels that is her only choice, then she is at breaking point.

I'm an avid co sleeper and have been for 3 years, and yet even I know it is not acceptable to essentially shame a mother for making a certain choice when she feels she has no other option

First night was horrible about 30 minutes on and off but the second night was about 10 minutes and never had a problem since.

Wind your neck in @Tossblanket OP has said she’s going to give CC a try with the Ferber method.

My breastfed baby would wake regularly. I used to feed her back to sleep and then put her back in her cot when she was sound asleep. As she got older she started waking up more and more often when she was put down so we ended up cosleeping when she wouldn't be put down. At around 14 months my husband started going in and soothing her but if she really wouldn't go back to sleep then I would go in and feed her. Not long after she started accepting my husband all the time and going straight back to sleep instead of crying for me to feed her. And not long after that she started sleeping through. We were really surprised by how quick it was.

Maybe you could try that if your husband has some time off work or if he doesn't get him to go to the baby in the evening before he has to go to bed so the baby gets used to not always being fed back to sleep.

Get them used to not feeding at night first to break that connection and then move on to CIO. Otherwise it's a big jump.

Also, I don't understand this "to they learn crying means no one will come". Such bollocks! My DC still cried (most fecking days when little) and knew I would come and comfort them. The about hour in total they were left over 3 nights didn't stop them the other 3684 times they cried in the day and got a cuddle or kiss!

@Pinchoftums

Get them used to not feeding at night first to break that connection and then move on to CIO. Otherwise it's a big jump.

Also, I don't understand this "to they learn crying means no one will come". Such bollocks! My DC still cried (most fecking days when little) and knew I would come and comfort them. The about hour in total they were left over 3 nights didn't stop them the other 3684 times they cried in the day and got a cuddle or kiss!

That's a really interesting point. Surely if it genuinely created a situation where they truly believed you were no longer there for them, then they wouldn't cry in the day time either? I'd be intregued to hear the opposing explanation for that? Can anyone give first hand experience of being left to CIO as a child and any long term damage caused? Thanks for highlighting that Pinchoftums!

@cindarellasbelly

It won't work

You've only started trying to move away from bed sharing six weeks ago. Is he waking to feed? What we did at a similar age - and I'll be honest, it was facilitated by my Dh taking shared parental leave - was take me out of the equation at night time altogether. She co-slept with daddy, I expressed some milk so if she was really hungry she could have that. She cried, the first few night was up every hour or so, but she was cuddled and soothed and in her Daddy's arms when she cried. I think I went in the first day or so, once, and I took over and gave a big feed around 6.30. Within the week she was night weaned and calm. She ended up co-sleeping with her dad for about another 10 months, but she only woke about once a night and he was able to calm her immediately just being there.

I know a few people who've tried cry it out out of desperation and it didn't work. Give yourself a bit more time, and try and get the parent without the boobs to take charge of the next bit.

We did almost exactly this (including husband taking SPL) and it worked very well for us too. We went from 8/10/12 wake ups a night to 0-2 within a few days with minimal crying. I think if some babies are close to the boob they will just snack all night long. Im not 100% sure it’s connected, but my DS appetite for food also improved +++ after we did this.

Obviously your partner has to be 100% committed. If they are not it’s useless.

Personally, my mum left me to CIO at 4 months (first time mum acting on HV advice in the 80s). As soon as I could walk and was out of a cot I would try and come into my parents' bed every night until I was about eight, and I couldn't deal with spending a night away from home until I was fifteen. I remember being really embarrassed at how homesick I would get on summer camps and French exchange etc as a young teenager - I had real anxiety and would get uncontrollably tearful (which then made everything worse as other kids would take the piss!).

So that is partly why I, personally, won't do CIO. But I fully acknowledge that my issues when I was younger could have been for other reasons or just to do with my temperament generally. Also, gentler methods coupled with cutting down on breastfeeding did get my son sleeping through the night, but if they hadn't and I was still massively sleep deprived I might have tried it. Babies, mothers and families are all different and you have to weigh everything up and do what works for you.

I should add, I think the idea that "if you do any kind of sleep crying you are teaching your baby that you won't come when they call" is taken to extremes in some circles. I've seen some people online compare sleep training to Romanian orphanages, and it is obviously completely incomparable, and the comparison is really quite offensive to loving parents who do sleep train or us CIO.

YABU. CIO is cruel; they don’t know where you are and get very frightened.

I was ruined by sleep deprivation so we sleep trained at 7 months- we did gentle controller crying, so you put them down awake then go back in when they cry for a brief reassurance every 2,3,4 minutes the first night then 3,4,5 minutes the second and so on until they fall asleep.

It worked in three nights. Try that, but please don’t just leave him to cry.

*controlled

@Leshan

The default on here is "no" to Cry It Out. Almost always - a hard no.

Personally - I would disregard that lot and go for it.
You need sleep.

Agree with this. I did, and I would do it again.

I was a SAHM for more years than I can count, and was with my DC for every single minute of the day. We didn't need to see one another at night as well. We all needed to be asleep, in our own beds.

They are now adults and don't appear to have been traumatised by it. They also seem to think I'm not too bad as a mother.

89redballoons
Thanks for sharing that, and I'm sorry to hear you had such a difficult time. I actually have a friend who was exactly the same when we were younger (very stressed at sleepovers and would often get upset and go home in the middle of the night) and is a highly anxious adult now. It'd be interesting to know whether sleep training may have contributed. But as you say, it could be attributed to something else, or just her general disposition. I wonder whether any parents would admit if they noticed anxiety in their child after CIO or in later life too.
I also agree that the comparisons are not helpful - a PP brought up the NSPCC advert in the same way. A huge difference between chronic neglect, and an actual loving and supportive home who choose to sleep train.
And again I go back to the point that at the moment (me being utterly exhausted and stressed) could be contributing to some low level neglect / stress that may cause more harm than several nights of tears at bed time only.
If nothing else, this discussion will hopefully shed light on the reasons people choose CIO and why it may, at times, be the better option for some families. It's not just black and white.

macon
Precisely - I echo some of my previous points again, which is if children have warm, loving and supportive homes 24/7, and are only disrupted for a few nights with CIO - is that really going to leave long term trauma there?
Of the studies that have concluded that CIO causes emotional problems in children, we don't know how many of those individual cases were experiencing neglect or abuse during the day. Or whether, as PP says - other attributing factors, such as a trauma or just a nervous disposition. Who knows?

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200310193305.htm

This suggests cry it out doesn’t cause any permanent damage.

The Ferber method worked for us and took maybe a week (can’t remember exactly, was totally sleep deprived) I’m sorry you are having such a hard time. It’s an utter killer.

I think in Ferbers book he suggests that controlled crying is not suitable for infants who will vomit or have attachment issues (sorry, it’s been a while). Tbh my husband freaked out during controlled crying because our DD sounded really distressed, by the end of the week he was thankful we did it. It’s not easy as a parent but tbh the sleep deprivation made me a worse mum.

For me, I think refusing to meet your child's need for comfort at any time is unacceptable. By this is mean refusing to meet it, not delaying tending to them because XYZ is happening and you only have one pair of hands.

I think doing it before your child can understand your expectations or why you're doing it or what is happening is cruel.

Obviously everyone parents differently but the fact you feel the need for validation from others says you know it's not ok.

I've not read the entire thread so hope I'm not repeating what others have said. If you do choose to go down the controlled crying route but you're worried about waking your other child, could they stay with grandparents of a weekend so that you can give it a good go without that added layer of anxiety? FWIW I did timed controlled crying with mine, absolutely horrendous when you're in the thick of it at 2am but after a few nights it was blissful. I had the same feeling as you OP where my mental state and parenting was going to pot because of sleep deprivation and that trumped the want not to sleep train. Good luck with whatever you decide.

@PomegranateQueen

The reason I mentioned DH was because DS associated me with breastfeeding so I outsourced the job of getting him to sleep to someone who doesnt have boobs

We did exactly this. DH took over and offered water and I stayed in bed (awake, but away from DC).

So DH did everything, and a few years later the 4DC are all excellent at going to bed.

I did it. I felt bad about it (first night for first child was over an hour of crying, I sat outside the door bawling) but it took 3 days to get to a full night's sleep for both mine ie 7pm to 6.30 or 7 am, no waking (10pm dream feed).

They were 12 weeks though - you may find it harder as your child is older.

I shoved a muslin cloth down my shirt for an hour every night and then used it for swaddling in the early days. Not sure if it helped but it made me feel better.

Despite the guilt, would do it again without reserve.

I was losing my mind. Bought ear plugs & let DS rip for a few nights til he figured it out.No long term harm & he became a good & heavy sleeper although probably an innate night owl. No child died from crying. Motherhood is hard enough!