AIBU to expect female only nurses on a gynae ward?

[PanamaPattie]

My vulnerable elderly aunt has recently had an hysterectomy for ovarian cancer. During a telephone call, she became very upset because she had her catheter taken out and was helped to shower by a male nurse. She didn't feel that she could complain as she was afraid of repercussions.

Am I being unreasonable to expect female only care on a gynae ward - considering the intimate and invasive nature of care?

YANBU at all. It’s her right to request a female nurse and I wouldn’t want a male nurse giving intimate care.

There is a male midwife at the hospital I'm due to give birth at shortly. I've had a few dealings with him recently and he's been so lovely that if I was given the choice I'd choose him to deliver my baby. Someone's gender doesn't affect their ability to do their job

@Spotthedog91

The male nurse is a professional.. Not a pervert. Why is it seen as appropriate for a man to do this, but nobody would bat an eyelid at a female nurse removing a man's catheter. I've had internal scans by male nurses and it wouldn't enter my mind... They're doing a job

Exactly. It is not like women have had centuries of being abused and oppressed by men or anything. Both situations, of a male nurse with a female patient and a female nurse with a male patient, are totally the same.

YANBU. I think there are some feelings which it is hard to express, and a male nurse treating and assisting an elderly female patient who feels affronted to be seen naked by a strange man is not appropriate. Some women may not care. And sometimes men feel like this too - my ex partner's granddad refused to be showered by female carers, his sons had to do it. NHS is busy and understaffed and under horrendous pressure, but dignity doesn't have to be sacrificed because of it.

Assuming your aunt has capacity, she could have asked if a female nurse was available if she felt uncomfortable, which is quite a reasonable request. Most Gynaecologists I have seen over the years have been male, they are HCP’s regardless of their sex. It isn’t something that concerns me to be honest, but if it did I would speak up.

It is absolutely ok for your aunt to ask for a female staff member for intimate care - there should be no repercussions for her, other than she may potentially wait longer for assistance to wash or get to the toilet etc. Perhaps call and speak to the nurse in charge and explain your aunt was upset. Staffing being as it is, there might not have been anyone else available.

It is unreasonable to expect all female (or all male) staff in an area. Nurses are skilled and qualified professionals, as are doctors, physios, ot's etc and I very much doubt her entire surgical team was female - although it is possible. If the nurse was removing a catheter I would have thought they were a qualified nurse, rather than a HCA. Consent should always be sought before carrying out any nursing intervention, but if your aunt felt unable to express her concerns the nurse had no way of knowing she was uncomfortable, so you can remedy that by advocating for her.

I'm a nurse - whilst washing a patient I would constantly be checking consent "can you lift your arm? Shall I help wash your back? Would you prefer to wash your bottom yourself?" etc. I'd also be assessing them, is their skin intact? Is their wound healing as it should be? How much can they manage themselves? What is their mobility like? Are they generally clean or a bit unkempt? Are they chatty or withdrawn? It does often get delegated as we are so overloaded but it is an important nursing job.

@WetWeekends I'm genuinely asking as I honestly don't know...why is a male assisting you to shower (and the majority of staff assisting with personal care aren't actual nurses, but healthcare support workers, but that's besides the point..) not ok, but a male dr looking at your fanny and poking about fine...? Like what is the difference when it comes to intimate procedures?

Yabu to expect female only care on a gynae ward but yanbu to ask for female only care for your aunt as a preference.

Some of these responses are awful.

It's the responsibility of the HCP to ensure that they have the patient's consent, including whether they are happy to be cared for by a nurse of the opposite sex. Never mind, 'she should have asked' - she should have been asked, and in such a way that she felt comfortable saying no if she did not want a male nurse.

OP - call the ward asap and make sure they are aware of your aunt's wishes.

Longer term I do think we should move to female only mw and gynae nurses. We can manage it for breast screening clinics.

@CassandraTrotter it was me who made that comment and yes I worded it badly. I meant - and I’m sure people can understand this- that we should be accepting of all kinds of people in the medical profession. Men, women, transgender people, etc. If someone is qualified to do the job then essentially that is all that should matter. As someone who has chronic long term disabilities including a very rare autoimmune disorder (Addison’s) I’d die before I got treatment if I waited until I had a female nurse on a busy A and E ward or any other ward. However, I am not lacking in empathy and do understand that an elderly woman is in a vulnerable position. Of course I do. But the NHS is under staffed, over worked and time is in short supply - this is not the patients fault but I don’t think we should make things any more difficult by making gynaecology wards female nurses only.

@CassandraTrotter so would you refuse gynaecological care from a male doctor?

I really am taken aback by the lack of empathy on this thread, I’m a mid thirties, tall, strong, confident woman and I wouldn’t want a male nurse showering me or giving me an intimate examination, and I do think in a hospital situation where I was tired, weak and not in control I’d find it hard to say to a male member of staff that I didn’t want them.

Not all nurses are saints, some can be bad tempered and unpleasant and I’d be frightened of what they might do or say to me if I refused.

someone's gender doesn't affect their ability to do their job

You’re a young woman of today having a baby. You’re not a woman in her 80’s from a different age and way of doing things who would rather not have had a male nurse involved in her intimate care.

YABU. A nurse is a nurse. What do you think is so bad about make ones? Studying to be a nurse is hard, long and the wages are crap - male nurses aren’t doing it to be predatory. What about lesbians? Should lesbians not be allowed to work on gynae wards?

Was it a male hca. Nurses rarely have time to shower patients?

Also, I have had male patients ask for a male member of staff for personal care - this has always been accomodated when at all possible, even if we had to ask eg a junior doctor to catheterise or an ot or physio to help with toileting - this does delay care being delivered though. It happened more when i was younger - too old to embarass anyone these days i guess!

@CassandraTrotter I personally choose not to generalise all men like that. I would not immediately think a man was looking at me inappropriately while doing his job just because I have a vagina.

I have given birth to three children with no pain relief.

I still understand that many women want pain relief and think they should have it without question.

I haven't seen a GP since 2018.

I still understand some people need monthly appts and think they should have that service freely available.

I have only ever had good experiences at the dentist and I honestly don't really understand why some people get nervous or avoid dentists.

But I understand that they do, and think they should have compassionate, caring treatment from a practitioner they are comfortable with.

That's how empathy works.

YABU. There are plenty of males who help deliver babies etc. It's perfectly reasonable to ask for a female nurse but totally unreasonable to expect no male staff.

@TheVolturi

I don't really agree with you tbh op. A nurse is a nurse.

Just Google ‘nurse charged with sexual assault’ and see if you notice anything about the results.

"she was afraid of repercussions"

why? 80-something is not too old to learn to be assertive. Skills always to be gained.

Yabu, she could have asked for a female nurse of she felt uncomfortable.
You do know there are male gynecologists out there.

What about lesbians? Should lesbians not be allowed to work on gynae wards?

Lesbians are female

I know this is missing the point, but surprised nurses are assisting in the shower, here it's the HCAs as so short of nurses they wouldn't have time. Appreciate that is beside the point, sorry she was made to feel uncomfortable, and it's not easy to say no or whatever at the time.

I think you are being unreasonable but I understand the point.
The gynae ward part is irrelevant. Loads of people have catheters or surgery and need help showing etc after surgery.
You cnst ban male nurses