AIBU to expect female only nurses on a gynae ward?

[PanamaPattie]

My vulnerable elderly aunt has recently had an hysterectomy for ovarian cancer. During a telephone call, she became very upset because she had her catheter taken out and was helped to shower by a male nurse. She didn't feel that she could complain as she was afraid of repercussions.

Am I being unreasonable to expect female only care on a gynae ward - considering the intimate and invasive nature of care?

It's all very well saying you don't mind, but this is an elderly lady. My mum was over 90 when she was in hospital and was taken to the shower by a,male nurse. She'd had a mastectomy and he saw her starkers. She was mortified. I don't think, when he turned up, that she felt she could say she didn't want him.

About 30 years ago, my 70-year-old maiden aunt was in hospital and had male nurses giving her bed baths. She was positively thrilled.

I'm horrified that my aunt, who I would describe as vulnerable because she is 82, has cancer and was on her own in hospital with no visitors - due to COVID - should be put in a position were she felt too scared to ask for a female nurse and the fact that the male nurse did not notice her possible distress.

they really do understand that some patients are from a generation where no one has seen them naked in decades, except possibly a husband or partner

Or been raped or assaulted or childhood abuse or the myriad of abuses that women go through means they are wary of men in general but especially in intimate settings. Your comment is very ageist.

Unfortunately it is quite common to have male care assitants in care homes, and in care in the community too. My mum was in her 80's and in a nursing home as she needed everything doing for her, and one of the care staff was male - he did seem nice and caring - but my mum didn't like having him help with her most intimate care, and I wouldn't have either. My MiL had carers come to her house 3 times a day, but she didn't seem to mind that one of them was a man at all, I think she flirted with him, Lol!

Also, when I was a student nurse, I had to do a stint on the Labour Ward in maternity. One of the midwives was a man, and he was very popular - he had a great bedside manner with the most of the mums 😊

Maybe only male nurses should be involved with mens private parts, but my dh has problems down there (not yukki, btw) and in 30 years he's seen one male nurse. I think we should all be happy we are treated for nothing.

I would think gynae an unusual choice for a male nurse and indeed think midwifery is an unusual choice for men - why not let women have these spaces? What does a man think he can bring to that experience the woman is having?

Having said that, showering and catheterisation is bog standard nursing care and will be done on every hospital ward, not just gynae. It’s not realistic or desirable for there to only be female nurses everywhere. And certainly in our hospital many of the wards are now mixed and nurses are working with patients they wouldn’t normally see, as wards are set aside for covid.

Encourage your aunt to ask, and in fact call the matron and ask yourself if she can’t.

It’s irrelevant if it would bother myself or others having intimate care

It upset the OP’s aunt that is the issue and professionals should be aware of patients possibly feeling vulnerable

The lack of empathy on the responses is surprising.

I agree with pp that everyone should in fact be asked whether it is ok and explained that it is perfectly fine to ask for a female. No shaming. No repercussions.

OP. I hope that you are able to advocate for her. And thank you to all the HCP who have offered their professional advice and support here.

genuinely think we should be accepting of people of all sexes partaking in all roles in a medical capacity

All sexes? You mean both?

And never mind the traumatised patients who simply cannot have the opposite sex caring for them.

I've had two different men perform sweeps antetally, had a male consultant undertake an intra vaginal ultrasound, and had a man sew me up down there after DD.

My days of being bothered about it are long gone. But I do think it should be made clear (especially to older patients who can have different views on this) that they may ask for some of the same sex to deal with care needs. It's always been made explicit to me that I can request a change or a chaperone etc.

The NHS constitution states:

You have the right to receive care and treatment that is appropriate to you, meets your needs and reflects your preferences.

It also states that you have the right to be treated with dignity and respect. If a same-sex nurse for intimate care is your preference and affords you dignity then you absolutely have a right to this.

Unless she is worried that her consultant/surgeon was male she cannot complain about a male nurse

Yes, she can. That's how consent works. Consenting to one aspect of treatment and care does not then imply open consent to all aspects of treatment and care. A surgeon operating while a patient is unconscious, not fully naked, and with several other staff in the same room, is clinical/medical and is not on the same level as a lone male nurse aiding with intimate care while the patient is awake, naked, and feeling vulnerable. I had a male surgeon deliver one of my DC, I still wanted a female nurse to help me change my pads until my spinal wore off. Dignity and respect shouldn't be an after thought.

@IHaveBrilloHair

I wouldn't be happy at all. Any sort of treatment where I'm unclothed I want a female.

What about a doctor? We can't request a female doctor except in general practice can we and we may have to be unclothed in front of male doctors.

YANBU. If I make a GP appointment and need an intimate exam they ask if I'd prefer a female doctor and also let me know I can have a chaperone in the room. So why should the onus be on your aunt to say something beforehand? She's the patient and likely to be feeling pretty out of her depth. I'm sure the nurse was just doing his job but it seems like bad practice not to check if your aunt would prefer a female nurse, even if that meant waiting longer, it acknowledges her as an individual with feelings and preferences. I guess that answers my question as to why this wasn't done!

she should have felt able to ask and taht is sad , but men have been cared for by female staff since forever.

Soontobe60

“My MIL was very frightened when a male HCP came into her room in the care home where she was having an assessment and proceeded to shower her. In fact she begged my DH to take her home. She hadn’t been seen naked by anyone apart from her husband in 55 years, and was only seen by female midwives when she gave birth. She also only ever saw female GPS for any intimate exams. Why should she have to just accept a male presence when she’s at her most vulnerable?”

I don’t believe I said she should accept it ; I said that she is absolutely within her right to ask for a female member of staff…
Male nurses/HCAs are quite the norm now in all areas of the hospital and are competent in all tasks for both sexes, as female nurses/HCAs are competent in tasks for both sexes

Patient choice 1000% if they choose a worker of their own sex, but they wouldn’t know if they weren’t informed

@annacondom

It's all very well saying you don't mind, but this is an elderly lady. My mum was over 90 when she was in hospital and was taken to the shower by a,male nurse. She'd had a mastectomy and he saw her starkers. She was mortified. I don't think, when he turned up, that she felt she could say she didn't want him.

I sympathise, but if there are male nurses, they will quite often be caring for female patients. It's part of the job and part of the experience of a patient too. I agree we should be able to ask, but not that it's an automatic right.

she should have felt able to ask and taht is sad , but men have been cared for by female staff since forever.
Different dynamic.

She's not unreasonable to want a female nurse....however she's probably on a surgical ward, not a gynae ward, which may explain why there are male nurses.

I don't really agree with you tbh op. A nurse is a nurse.

@SNKB14

Soontobe60

“My MIL was very frightened when a male HCP came into her room in the care home where she was having an assessment and proceeded to shower her. In fact she begged my DH to take her home. She hadn’t been seen naked by anyone apart from her husband in 55 years, and was only seen by female midwives when she gave birth. She also only ever saw female GPS for any intimate exams. Why should she have to just accept a male presence when she’s at her most vulnerable?”

I don’t believe I said she should accept it ; I said that she is absolutely within her right to ask for a female member of staff…
Male nurses/HCAs are quite the norm now in all areas of the hospital and are competent in all tasks for both sexes, as female nurses/HCAs are competent in tasks for both sexes

Patient choice 1000% if they choose a worker of their own sex, but they wouldn’t know if they weren’t informed

But it can be very intimidating and practically impossible for some women to stand there and say “no” to a man. “I know you are already here, and you are qualified, but I am not comfortable being undressed in the presence of a male”

Vulnerable women shouldn’t be in a position where they have to feel confident and empowered enough to speak out because the ones who are most uncomfortable will not be able to.

The onus should be on staff making it clear that there is/ are male staff on duty and would they mind receiving intimidate care from them.

I’ve seen two gynaecologists, both male.

I'm sure she could request a female to help or accompany her, just like you can at gp. She may have to wait for one to be available.

Not unreasonable at all for her to have wanted a female nurse but sadly I suspect due to staffing issues it’s simply not always possible. I do think it would be good practice to ask if female patients are comfortable with intimate care from men but I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect all nursing staff to be female as standard.

As others have said it’s all very well saying ‘I had a male nurse and was fine with it’ - not everyone is the same and I imagine many elderly, vulnerable women would feel the same as OP’s aunt. I had a few male doctors doing intimate exams during labour - the only reason I didn’t really care was because I was so out of it and by that stage all dignity had left the building anyway! If I’d been very uncomfortable I would’ve requested a woman but wouldn’t have been outraged if none were available.

She's not unreasonable at all to want intimate care to be performed by a woman, and she should absolutely be supported in articulating that.

YABU for expecting all the nurses on a gynae ward to be female though.