AIBU to expect female only nurses on a gynae ward?

[PanamaPattie]

My vulnerable elderly aunt has recently had an hysterectomy for ovarian cancer. During a telephone call, she became very upset because she had her catheter taken out and was helped to shower by a male nurse. She didn't feel that she could complain as she was afraid of repercussions.

Am I being unreasonable to expect female only care on a gynae ward - considering the intimate and invasive nature of care?

She didn't feel that she could complain as she was afraid of repercussions.

What repercussions was she worried about? And why would she complain when she or you could easily request a female nurse.

@AnnaMagnani

Nurse is a nurse.

If she didn't want her catheter taken out by a male nurse she could have said so before he started.

When was your empathy bypass operation?

Of course she could ask that isn’t the point consideration should be given

many people do not feel able to ask especially when they are feeling vulnerable

@Keepingitreal14

Should men be cared for by male only nurses? How does that work if there isn’t enough available? What about male doctors, are they ok?

yes they can request this too. If there arent enough available they can wait, same as with women when they request female healthcare providers

@Keepingitreal14, in my experience, men don't mind intimate care from women because they regard it as normal but women are accustomed to being cautious of any intimacy (like being washed) from a man whom they have not personally and individually selected. I would be washed by my DH and at a stretch by my son, but not by my brother-in-law-- even though we get on well.

@godmum56

she should have felt able to ask and taht is sad , but men have been cared for by female staff since forever.

And have you heard the stupid sexist comment men come out with when women tend to them? There are some male patients that have to have two district nurses visit because of the things they say,. I imagine it's the same in a hospital.

Plus it's a different dynamic.

@Keepingitreal14

Should men be cared for by male only nurses? How does that work if there isn’t enough available? What about male doctors, are they ok?

Exactly.

I personally don't care, I've male doctors up my vag and butt all the blooming time thanks to prolapse and incontinence issues, but I usually have a chaperone too.

I very quickly got over myself when I realised that I was going to pee on their hands when they examined me anyways, so why be embarrassed about them seeing me intimately. Once you've peed on someone, it's hard to get embarrassed by the small stuff.

That being said, I think at the very least people who are uncomfortable should have some choice who is responsible for intimate care.

He’s a professional doing his job, I’m sorry your Aunt was uncomfortable but it really shouldn’t be an issue.

I think a lot of people here are not putting themselves in the shoes of an elderly lady. Yes, you may well have had a male nurse/doctor consultant. I did during my births, and during IUD fittings etc. However, I'm not an elderly lady, who like PPs have said, might well not ever have been seen naked by anyone! Yes she could have asked, but quite possibly she didn't feel able to. And absolutely, it may well be the case that staffing would not permit a female nurse to be available, but to suggest that she should just put up with this, is lacking in empathy I think.

Your poor Aunt how distressing for her.
I don't mind male Drs or nurses providing medical care but I wouldn't want a male to be washing/showering me.

It's difficult but many wards are short staffed, I worked somewhere and 4 ladies said they didn't want male carers which then I had to do and they had to wait much longer for personal care pad changes and using the commode. I'd prefer to be cleaned as quickly as possible than waiting for a female.

It just depends on the patient and what they're doing to them, doesn't it.

Me personally at 37 years old would (and haven't had) have any issues with male doctors and nurses treating me although I have to be honest I don't think I'd love a male nurse to shower me. I don't know why it just feels a bit intimate, perhaps because it's not a medical procedure. I've got gynae issues and every single doctor I've seen (with several examinations including when I've been menstruating) has been male although they've always had a female chaperone. They have all been brilliant at putting me at ease and making me comfortable. Exemplary professionals.

An elderly lady, who is likely much more old fashioned (understandably) about being naked in front of a man who isn't her husband, who is poorly and vulnerable? Well honestly I think she should have been asked first if it was ok. My Gran is 90, has dementia and in a care home and she would be horrified and probably traumatised if she had a male care assistant bathe her.

OP I would ring and speak to them. They've done nothing wrong technically and of course you can't ask for a ward to only be staffed females. But you can definitely ask for any intimate care or bathing to be carried out by a female nurse. It can't be an unusual request!

I don’t think male staff should provide intimate care to female patients without a chaperone. So it wouldn’t make sense to send a male nurse to remove a catheter of a female patient because then you need to send two staff members instead of one.

Male staff, from janitors to doctors to admin, should also not have access to vulnerable female patients without a chaperone. (See reports of women in comas being raped)

@scatteredglitter

it s awful she didn't feel able to ask for a preferable female nurse for intimate cares but it s unreasonable to only expect female nurses on a gynae ward. out of interest were her dr s and surgeons anaesthetists all female ?

You must see it’s very different having a nurse shower you and remove a catheter than is it a doctor examining you and an anaesthetist doing a cannula etc.

I assume it wasn’t a female surgeon performing the operation and wasn’t female only theatre staff? Therefore there shouldn’t really be an issue about a male nurse.

The lack of compassion shown on here by some posters is shocking.

We all have boundaries. They are there for a reason and nobody should have the right to make somebody else move theirs.

Of course she should and does have the right to request a nurse the same sex as she is. Sounds like she needs an advocate. Good job she has you.

The male nurse is a professional.. Not a pervert. Why is it seen as appropriate for a man to do this, but nobody would bat an eyelid at a female nurse removing a man's catheter. I've had internal scans by male nurses and it wouldn't enter my mind... They're doing a job

It should be explained to people that they can request a female. I suspect they like to keep it quiet sometimes, because many would prefer it, and the NHS can't always accommodate so easily.

When it comes to an elderly lady, staff ought to know there is often a reluctance to complain or 'bother' anybody - so a pre-emptive 'would you prefer...?' would seem sensible. Perhaps this is discouraged though?

The dynamic between opposite sex nurse / patient is clearly different between male and female. That's not to say men don't also have have preferences and feelings, of course they do, but I do think there is reasonable grounds for a heightened discomfort amongst female patients that ought to be acknowledged.

I saw a male gynae, who did my ivf procedures and pre pregnancy surgery plus plenty of men scanning through ivf etc. I chose this. I was fine with a man. I was young and strong. Didn’t feel vulnerable at all.

I am now disabled and vulnerable. I had a hysterectomy not so long ago. I would have been horrified if one of the hcps are male.

The lack of understanding, empathy and brain engagement for the vulnerabilities of other women is staggering on this thread… misogyny at its best.

YANBU. The way things are going though, women will be scared of the repercussions of requesting a female only nurse.

There is a power imbalance when you are a patient in a hospital and it should be taken into consideration that some people will be too frightened to ask for a female nurse, it would not take two minutes for someone to say on arrival are you ok with male staff or would you prefer all female?

Agree with this, except the question should be something like “would you like a female nurse for this procedure?”. It has to be easy to say “yes”. Female socialisation and people pleasing is so strong for many woman that any suggestion that they may be inconveniencing someone or not giving the right answer by stating a preference will lead them to say what they think you want to hear/what they think is most polite, not to state what they actually want. When it comes to something as personal as medical care, it is vitally important to take into account how people actually behave, not how the most well adjusted person/confident/assertive might behave.

@Helleofabore

The lack of empathy on the responses is surprising.

I agree with pp that everyone should in fact be asked whether it is ok and explained that it is perfectly fine to ask for a female. No shaming. No repercussions.

OP. I hope that you are able to advocate for her. And thank you to all the HCP who have offered their professional advice and support here.

Yes, totally agree. What’s with all the people saying they were fine with a male nurse so everyone should be?

And the person who said we should be accepting of all sexes clearly doesn't know enough about basic biology to be offering an opinion.

YABU. Nursing is a profession, and as such, staffed by professionals of both sexes. If she requested female only staff and it was completely ignored, then you would be reasonable in your protests, however if she didn't voice her discomfort, then how are they to know that she was uncomfortable?

The lack of understanding, empathy and brain engagement for the vulnerabilities of other women is staggering on this thread… misogyny at its best.

This.