To move away and leave elderly in-laws behind?

[Summerplans7]

DH’s company has been talking to him about the chance of a transfer abroad. His job is perfectly safe here in the U.K., but the opportunity abroad is a country we have both always wanted to live in (although with Covid restrictions almost impossible to get to at the moment), but it would take us far from his elderly parents.

His mother would be devastated as she is close to our children and has been lonely over the last few years due to Covid, and the health of his his father has declined severely (he has dementia and isn’t really “there” anymore). I feel guilty even considering it. So does DH.

Do you think it would be selfish to go? It would be selfish of course, I know, but these chances only come around once in a lifetime (for us anyway).

All the restrictions have made us crave an adventure more than ever. The country we are considering is also frequently on the top of the list for qualify of life, and places to raise children, making it more tempting. And I have a good friend who lives there, so it wouldn’t be totally alien.

MIL wouldn’t want to come, even if FIL wasn’t unwell, so that’s not an option. She has a lot of friends and a community here and doesn’t intend to ever leave her area. She is actually pushing us to move nearer (we’re not far at the moment), has even suggested we all move in together (not an option for me).

Oh OP you are getting such a hard time.
DH and I had a very similar situation to yours but I convinced him to stay in our current property to be close to my parents, as my DF was very poorly. It just felt the right thing to do.
My DF died 8 months later and my DM sold up and moved in with my sister. Was it worth it? In all honesty I don't think it was.
Secretly I know DH resents not being able to progress in his career (he is a science academic and the role he rejected was a professorship ).
Our DCs have also missed out on a completely different lifestyle where they would have been close to the sea and the countryside.
My DF had left home at 16 to travel the world in the merchant navy and my mother had moved to the UK at 18, so neither of them had any reservations about leaving their own families behind. Yet they did put a lot of pressure on us to stay.
I would say, put your own children and careers first. Your FIL may not have many months left before he recognises no one at all and your MIL may well upsticks and move in with a friend or relative. You can also still offer support and talk daily on zoom.

12 hour flight will mean your DH might see his dad maybe one more time before he dies. Or not at all. Think about that. As someone living 10 hours away from family, I can tell you that the call that told me my mum had cancer was the most awful call I ever had. Being so far away means you can't go back and forth, you can only go twice a year, and it's awful when things go wrong. This is pre-Covid btw. My mum is ok now. But I actually still feel traumatised by it. I cried myself to sleep for months. The guilt of living so far away and not be able to get on a flight for the weekend just to check in was awful (I used to live a 2 hour flight away from.family before this and that was easy).

I love where I live and luckily my mum made a surprisingly quick recovery. But it's made my mind up that we will leave this place in a few years. My parents are in their late 50s now but when they get older I will have to be in Europe, I couldn't live with myself otherwise. And if I get a call that one of my parents is unwell tomorrow? I will pack up, quit my job and go home, end of.

And just to say, I don't think moving to another country is bad, I left my home country when I was 18. But there is a HUGE difference between being 2 hours flight away vs 10 hours flight away. 2 hour flight means visiting every couple of months, being there in emergencies, have the odd weekend away with mum and dad etc.

So if FIL is so ill, I'd rather look to move to Europe instead of Vancouver.

@ShitPoetryClub

Oh OP you are getting such a hard time. DH and I had a very similar situation to yours but I convinced him to stay in our current property to be close to my parents, as my DF was very poorly. It just felt the right thing to do. My DF died 8 months later and my DM sold up and moved in with my sister. Was it worth it? In all honesty I don't think it was. Secretly I know DH resents not being able to progress in his career (he is a science academic and the role he rejected was a professorship ). Our DCs have also missed out on a completely different lifestyle where they would have been close to the sea and the countryside. My DF had left home at 16 to travel the world in the merchant navy and my mother had moved to the UK at 18, so neither of them had any reservations about leaving their own families behind. Yet they did put a lot of pressure on us to stay. I would say, put your own children and careers first. Your FIL may not have many months left before he recognises no one at all and your MIL may well upsticks and move in with a friend or relative. You can also still offer support and talk daily on zoom.

But in that instance, especially with your father being near the end, could your husband not have taken the professorship and moved alone in the short term with you and the children following on afterrwards? That bit of it was easily fixeable, lots of people do that kind of thing for much longer than 8 months. Also, you have regrets but you can't know how the alternative path would have turned out. You might have felt very guilty and affected your relationship with your sister and especially if things didn't go brilliantly in your new situation, you probably would hsve wondered was IT worth it. Every choice in these kind of scenarios has positives and negatives but you only know the negatives of the path you did take.

@TatianaBis

From the emotional blackmail on this thread, some people appear to believe you cannot leave the country you are born in until your parents die.

It’s MIL who is putting FIL in a home not OP, and she is the one responsible for visiting him regularly.

I did not bring forth my children for them to be tied to me until I croak and feel obliged to care for me in my dotage.

Well no, obviously not but this seems a particularly BAD time to be choosing to leave. My parents are starting to need my sister and I more and more and I would consider it selfish if eirher of us left to move abroad now in our 40s, not least because we would be severely impacting the grandparent/child relationship which has now been established and is such a source of joy. Different even if we had moved abroad younger and never came back to live, the dynamics would be different.

@theleafandnotthetree

So unless the opportunity presents itself before the age of what, 30, the ship has sailed, your time has passed and you are just stuck unless you want to be a selfish arse?
There are plenty of roles that cannot be offered to you before you are at least into your 30's unless you're some sort of prodigy and there are plenty of roles that are only on offer abroad. How any parent could ever begrudge their child these sort of opportunities is beyond me and frankly, I find it sickening.

For everyone saying oh you should have done this in your 20s / 30s - often the right career opportunities don't present themselves at that point, it's when you're more established / senior that you are valuable enough to be considered for such a move. Are we basically saying that once you reach an age where your parents are starting to potentially need some kind of support, that puts the kibosh on you living your life as you want, when a lot of people in their 40s / 50s still consider themselves young, want to travel, experience different things and ways of living, for them and their children? And then when your parents die in say 10 or even 20 years time and your caring responsibilities are over, you're too old yourself to go and live the life you want as you're heading towards retirement yourself?

What's clear from all of this is that a lot of people have a very strong sense of familial duty that overrides personal desires and others don't - for reasons that likely no-one other than the people involved in the relationships and their history will often understand. Personally I would go in this scenario if all the other stars were in alignment. For various reasons to do with my childhood, I don't have that strong emotional tie / feeling of duty that a lot of others seem to have. I love my DM, I help her, I support, I arrange things, I listen to her worries and concerns, but I don't feel obliged to physically be there and 'do' for her, I'm already 300 miles away and have been for the last 30 odd years.

Conversely my ex was fiercely protective over his mum, made it very clear if anything happened to his dad she would be coming to live with us etc etc. He would never in a million years move abroad without taking her with him. It's not a male/female thing at all, it's a relationship thing. And most of that will stem from how your parents (or the DH's parents in this case) treated you when you were younger, and the emotional tie / relationship you have with them as a result. This is a call for OP's DH to make, and he's the only one that can know if it's the right decision based on all of the information available to him.

How any parent could ever begrudge their child these sort of opportunities is beyond me and frankly, I find it sickening

Nobody would begrudge their child opportunities, but very few parents would be thrilled to see them move to the other side of the world either. Most would put a brave face on it but it wouldn’t be human not to be ecstatic at the prospect of only seeing them every couple of years if you’re lucky. Particularly when there’s a relationship with grandchildren.

@Blossomtoes

How any parent could ever begrudge their child these sort of opportunities is beyond me and frankly, I find it sickening

Nobody would begrudge their child opportunities, but very few parents would be thrilled to see them move to the other side of the world either. Most would put a brave face on it but it wouldn’t be human not to be ecstatic at the prospect of only seeing them every couple of years if you’re lucky. Particularly when there’s a relationship with grandchildren.

This thread says otherwise.

And another thing, the FIL, MIL and the dementia. Waiting until he's gone. By that point I bet the MIL is frail and therefore they would need to stay. Then she passes in what, 15-20 years? Just in time for OP and husband to retire. No fantastic opportunities anymore and it's time for the kids to now look after the OP and the husband, unless of course they are selfish arseholes.

Good god, what a miserable cycle of life.

@Remoulade absolutely this.

[quote Remoulade]@theleafandnotthetree

So unless the opportunity presents itself before the age of what, 30, the ship has sailed, your time has passed and you are just stuck unless you want to be a selfish arse?
There are plenty of roles that cannot be offered to you before you are at least into your 30's unless you're some sort of prodigy and there are plenty of roles that are only on offer abroad. How any parent could ever begrudge their child these sort of opportunities is beyond me and frankly, I find it sickening.[/quote]
The parent doesn’t know

Context is everything. The MIL hasn’t asked for anything. The op is asking for some input on her decisions.

I don’t think it’s one blanket response for all of humankind. Children grow up and leave. Deal with it. Surely you can see that each individuals responses and specific contexts are far more complex?

I agree with Remoulade.

I probably won’t be moving abroad whilst my DPs are still alive, mainly because one of my kids is at an age where I can’t disrupt their education. However, I’d take the opportunity if I were in the OPs shoes.

It actually depresses me to imagine wiping arses when the kids are young, slogging through my 40s and holding myself back to be on standby to wipe my parents arse, only having a rest once they’ve gone and expecting my own kids to be on standby to wipe my arse.

@Atalune

Irrelevant. I am referring to the countless responses saying how selfish and horrible it is and how disappointed people would be if their children even contemplated doing something like this.. I.e living their own lives.

You’re a bit obsessed with arse wiping @JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil. Very few people, no matter how devoted, supply their parents’ personal care.

[quote Remoulade]@theleafandnotthetree

So unless the opportunity presents itself before the age of what, 30, the ship has sailed, your time has passed and you are just stuck unless you want to be a selfish arse?
There are plenty of roles that cannot be offered to you before you are at least into your 30's unless you're some sort of prodigy and there are plenty of roles that are only on offer abroad. How any parent could ever begrudge their child these sort of opportunities is beyond me and frankly, I find it sickening.[/quote]
Sickening is a very strong word to use, are parents not allowed to have complicated responses to situations which will materially affect them? They might be proud, happy for their child but also very sad at the thought of missing them and their company and yes, worried about a lack of near-by support in handling life's vicissitudes, whether age related or otherwise. If my sibling decided to emigrate I'd be gutted in lots of ways, is that allowed? Or does it make me a terrible person?

Obviously I'm not saying there's any kind of blanket 'rule' of never emigrate after 30, but inTHIS SCENARIO the decision to go or not is a very difficult one and loaded with implications, which is precisely why the OP looked for advice and didn't fuck off without it costing her scarcely a thought. Which a rather depressing number of posters here would do it seems.

@Blossomtoes

You’re a bit obsessed with arse wiping *@JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil*. Very few people, no matter how devoted, supply their parents’ personal care.

Christ, it's not literal. It's all of it. The caring for others and never getting to put yourself first. No respite from duties.

@theleafandnotthetree

There are two emotions I would have. "I will miss you greatly" and "I am so proud of you". "What about me" would not enter my mind, because I will make sure I am set for my old age. My children will fly free, because I love them and will not ever hinder them.

[quote Remoulade]@theleafandnotthetree

There are two emotions I would have. "I will miss you greatly" and "I am so proud of you". "What about me" would not enter my mind, because I will make sure I am set for my old age. My children will fly free, because I love them and will not ever hinder them.[/quote]
Easy to say now. We can all hypothesise about what we’d do in fictitious situations, reality has a nasty habit of being something very different. As I said, I’d put money on people saying this being relatively young.

@JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil

I agree with Remoulade.

I probably won’t be moving abroad whilst my DPs are still alive, mainly because one of my kids is at an age where I can’t disrupt their education. However, I’d take the opportunity if I were in the OPs shoes.

It actually depresses me to imagine wiping arses when the kids are young, slogging through my 40s and holding myself back to be on standby to wipe my parents arse, only having a rest once they’ve gone and expecting my own kids to be on standby to wipe my arse.

Lot of hyperbole there, presumably you only wiped your children's arses for a few years and it would be very unlikely you'd end up doing that for your parents. Life, at all stages is a complicated dance and mixture of joys, pleasures and responsibilities. There is an undelying theme to many posters contributions and across other mumsnet threads that the goal of modern life is to arrive at a point where we can live exactly as we like (it's our time!) with no responsibility to others, where we can cruise or travel or take amazing job opportunities, refuse to mind grandchildren ever under any circumstances (like for even one night a year). That seems to me a very shallow and narrow view of life. For most of us, what makes us what we are, what gives our life meaning is our connections and relationships, the things we do for and with others. And that web is so much bigger than our own children. It's not some big sacrifice, it's what makes us members of a community and society. And there will be hard bits, but also great bits. And surely it is possible to do both, to meet our own needs, to be there for others but to have good boundaries to ensure that doesn't overwhelm us.

@Blossomtoes

No, I know myself well enough to be able to say this. You do not have children for support later in life.

[quote Remoulade]@theleafandnotthetree

There are two emotions I would have. "I will miss you greatly" and "I am so proud of you". "What about me" would not enter my mind, because I will make sure I am set for my old age. My children will fly free, because I love them and will not ever hinder them.[/quote]
Good for you, you are clearly different and better to most other people. Or it's easy to say that kind of thing when you are relatively young and invulnerable. Like I've said before, we are taking on more and more with my previously self sufficient and selfless parents. But their lives have changed, they need us and it is as simple as that.

As someone said above, so much depends on the relationship you have with your parents. If they have supported and loved you and put themselves out for you, when they are elderly and frail you will want to be there for them. If they’ve pursued their own agendas and not wanted to be involved with grandchildren or offered emotional or practical support, things might play out differently.

[quote Remoulade]@Blossomtoes

No, I know myself well enough to be able to say this. You do not have children for support later in life.[/quote]
Genuine question, because this is intriguing me, why do you have them? Only it seems to me to be a bit pointless to spend 18 years parenting dependent children only to never see them at the end of it.

@Blossomtoes exactly. It seems particularly pointless for people to be giving up their jobs to raise kids and stuff - to essentially hardly ever see them afterwards.

‘@Blossomtoes exactly. It seems particularly pointless for people to be giving up their jobs to raise kids and stuff - to essentially hardly ever see them afterwards’

Now this is hyperbole. Just because you don’t expect your child to live on the next street or move you in to their spare room and work part time in order to be on standby to take you to the GP everyday doesn’t mean you will never see them.

I had kids because I wanted kids. I want them to grow up and have happy, healthy lives not to spend 20 years as my personal shopper and carer whilst simultaneously trying to raise their own families. I still want to see and speak to them though. DH and I are ensuing we save for our retirement so that we are taken care of health wise. We can buy our shopping online so don't need our DC to be running up and down with bags of shopping for us. All the shitty bits including the literal shitty bits will be paid for.

My own DPs despite being low paid have saved for their retirements and their funerals as they’d hate to saddle us with any avoidable burden.

I will still be speaking to my children and seeing them when we can. It doesn’t have to be one extreme or the other.