To move away and leave elderly in-laws behind?

[Summerplans7]

DH’s company has been talking to him about the chance of a transfer abroad. His job is perfectly safe here in the U.K., but the opportunity abroad is a country we have both always wanted to live in (although with Covid restrictions almost impossible to get to at the moment), but it would take us far from his elderly parents.

His mother would be devastated as she is close to our children and has been lonely over the last few years due to Covid, and the health of his his father has declined severely (he has dementia and isn’t really “there” anymore). I feel guilty even considering it. So does DH.

Do you think it would be selfish to go? It would be selfish of course, I know, but these chances only come around once in a lifetime (for us anyway).

All the restrictions have made us crave an adventure more than ever. The country we are considering is also frequently on the top of the list for qualify of life, and places to raise children, making it more tempting. And I have a good friend who lives there, so it wouldn’t be totally alien.

MIL wouldn’t want to come, even if FIL wasn’t unwell, so that’s not an option. She has a lot of friends and a community here and doesn’t intend to ever leave her area. She is actually pushing us to move nearer (we’re not far at the moment), has even suggested we all move in together (not an option for me).

@HeddaGarbled

I suppose it’s a good thing that so many people are oblivious to the reality of caring for someone with dementia

For the purposes of education:

There will come a time when your MIL will be unable to leave the house, because your FIL’s behaviour and agitation in public make it impossible and she can’t leave him safely. At that point her community connections will mostly fade away apart from the occasional pity visit from exceptionally kind people.

She will spend her days mopping up wee, attempting to stop him from harming himself (and her), calming his anxieties and bearing his temper.

She won’t get much sleep because he must be watched at night as well as in the day.

She will attempt to hide the worst of his behaviour and her own misery and desperation, because he is her husband and she wants to protect him.

One day, there will be the most serious of many crises, and he will go into a care home. She will endure emotionally distressing visits every day and then go home to an empty house.

After a year or so of this, he’ll die.

This isn’t the life she has because they are wealthy and he has a full time carer who stays the night when she wants a break and goes away with friends - which she has been able to do, thank goodness, now that the rules have relaxed - and soon, FIL will go into accommodation.

I’m not saying it’s not awful - it is, and it’s hard and very sad and demoralising, but she’s also not the type to try and hide anything or struggle on alone. She has said she won’t give up her life to care for him, which is why she has paid for excellent care. They can afford to, which is their good fortune.

She does a lot and she is handling it all admirably, though. I respect her a lot, even though I don’t really enjoy her company.

My children adore her and she is very good to them, and that’s really why I’m finding the decision very difficult!

Vancouver housing is very expensive. Local schools can be crowded. The cost of living is high. The second language in much of Vancouver is Mandarin. You are at least 12 hours flight from Heathrow. It’s very selfish to turn your back on your MIL in her time of greatest need. Many people have lost all sense of responsibility, which has been to society’s detriment. We can’t have all we want when we want it.

@Summerplans7 what does your dh want to do?

My DH and I could have moved to Canada, but he felt he couldn’t leave his parents. I would have loved to go, we would have had the house of our dreams and land. Instead, we’re waiting to retire in 5-10 years and having to compromise on where we’ll live. I feel it’s unlikely we’ll ever make the move to a country house now.

I’m not suggesting they’re unhappy here. But op said they’d have a much better life in Canada. Chances like that might not come along twice.

I may be projecting because I lost out on a job at the last minute, a few months ago, that would have got us out of the U.K.

@WinterIsGone

3 years isn’t that long It's a lifetime when you're caring for someone.

I'm very sorry you are caring for your father who has dementia though. It is so exhausting and depressing.

3 years is not that long until she’s free to move around is the point.

I’m not caring for my father FT and neither is my mum. My parents, like OP’s PILs are wealthy, have carers and can afford a good dementia care home when the time comes. Carers have to be managed, my father has to be managed, it’s sad and stressful and demoralizing but it’s not grueling like it is when you’re doing it alone.

op I love that you think money can somehow provide the support that having her son in Canada removes.

I can tell you from watching my mother care for my dying dad when he had cancer. We had carers, we had external support. We had the hospice involved. We had food deliveries.

But there is no service that will fill the gap of a loving relative who will give you the companionship and moral support you need. None at all.

You want to go. Even though you wouldn’t go if your own mother was still alive. If you cannot compute that disparity then I don’t really understand why your posting as all you really want is validation for your choice.

@Ericaequites

Vancouver housing is very expensive. Local schools can be crowded. The cost of living is high. The second language in much of Vancouver is Mandarin. You are at least 12 hours flight from Heathrow. It’s very selfish to turn your back on your MIL in her time of greatest need. Many people have lost all sense of responsibility, which has been to society’s detriment. We can’t have all we want when we want it.

Well, with any luck OP will not be basing her decision on racism .

I am not being racist, but there are many more Mandarin than French speakers in Vancouver.

@Ericaequites

I am not being racist, but there are many more Mandarin than French speakers in Vancouver.

So?

But, as I said, as he’s got to the stage that he’s not really present as OP describes then he won’t be around for that much longer.

My mum was around for five more years after that stage.

@Ericaequites

I am not being racist, but there are many more Mandarin than French speakers in Vancouver.

Heaven forfend!

I don't know how you can think that's not a racist thing to say tbh.

@ExhaustedFlamingo

I'm not going to be accused of being sanctimonious because for me, staying close to family is important. I don't care if you think I'm boring or unadventurous. I'm fine with that.

It's equally fine to want fun and adventure for your family and the chance to explore somewhere new. There's no need to be prickly about it.

Actually I don't think you're so much sanctimonious as I think you're smug, self satisfied & rather myopic.
Many many many people would love to have family that are important & for myriads of reasons do not. Moving somewhere new can also be for a myriad of reasons not "fun" the UK is a dead-end for many reasons.

As a parent the first and foremost priority is ones children. Not parents, even if you're lucky to have had a good relationship with them.

Good for you that you had that relationship with your dad, very few people do, so maybe try and be a bit less of a judgey jane.
For my kids I wish them their own happy fulfilled loving lives and I will support them to the ends of the earth if that's where They live.
I could never expect or accept drudgery from my kids.

If you stay for your PILs sake, and they live another 10 years, your children will be almost adults. You will have missed the boat; the children will be living their own lives, that don’t necessarily include you. You will have missed a huge opportunity to look back on as a family. Your kids might well decide to move abroad anyway when they are young adults! Share the experience with them now, while you can?

People saying the FIL won't be around for much longer, how do you know that?
Our family member was completely gone 10 years before her passing, and in the end she died due to an infection. God knows how long she could have been around otherwise.

Do not miss this chance, OP. Leave the UK. We will be leaving as soon as we can.

I'd go in a heartbeat OP. Your mil has not had the best relationship with her 2 dcs. Everyone deserves forgiveness but no one owns your childrens future and unfortunately you reap what you sow.

I don't think my dsis will ever move far from dm. I absolutely would if I had an amazing opportunity like Canada because me and dm aren't as close because stuff happened in the past. That was her fault, I was just a kid. It sounds as tho your dh and his dm have a similar relationship. Let him decide ultimately.

well if its vancouver i would be very careful. it is v v expensive. housing is extremely expensive and all other costs of living as well. many things are 3-5 times as expensive as the uk and I am afraid the quality of the food is often very poor. just for example car insurance is around $2,000 per annum for an ordinary car. the equivalent of council tax 7-10k p.a. if you dont have a job with benefits, prescriptions are expensive - eg one inhaler can be $50 each.. dental care v v expensive. I could go on. feel free to ask me any specifics about it. you will not get any answer other than how amazing everything is from canadian. ambulances are not free. health care is not fully covered if you are in another province. everything is only good for each province....

@Ericaequites

I am not being racist, but there are many more Mandarin than French speakers in Vancouver.

that is because the french speakers have never lived on the west coast but in quebec.

@Summerplans7

DH’s company has been talking to him about the chance of a transfer abroad. His job is perfectly safe here in the U.K., but the opportunity abroad is a country we have both always wanted to live in (although with Covid restrictions almost impossible to get to at the moment), but it would take us far from his elderly parents.

His mother would be devastated as she is close to our children and has been lonely over the last few years due to Covid, and the health of his his father has declined severely (he has dementia and isn’t really “there” anymore). I feel guilty even considering it. So does DH.

Do you think it would be selfish to go? It would be selfish of course, I know, but these chances only come around once in a lifetime (for us anyway).

All the restrictions have made us crave an adventure more than ever. The country we are considering is also frequently on the top of the list for qualify of life, and places to raise children, making it more tempting. And I have a good friend who lives there, so it wouldn’t be totally alien.

MIL wouldn’t want to come, even if FIL wasn’t unwell, so that’s not an option. She has a lot of friends and a community here and doesn’t intend to ever leave her area. She is actually pushing us to move nearer (we’re not far at the moment), has even suggested we all move in together (not an option for me).

please feel free to ask me anything you want re vancouver but unless you can spend at least 3 million on a house (with property tax of at least 10,000 per year) you are looking at the suburbs 'bridge and tunnel' or the fraser valley. these are not the pictures you see of vancouver proper. public transport is poor and you will spend all your time traffic. A lot more crime and gangs as well...... Vancouver is nice if you are fairly wealthy and can afford westside/main street or the north shore (rains constantly) but very nice.School education is not nearly as good as uk and no standard exams. but they do get to do lots of sports....

No i would not do this

It sounds as if you will go because MILs money will pay for the absence of you and SIL. It doesn't sound as if there is much if a relationship either between SIL and PIL or SIL and yourselves.

I think my parents would be more upset by not seeing their dgc plus the lack of a relationship between you and SIL than anything else.

Assuming you do go, don't post gushing messages on SM about your ILs at every opportunity. It really shouts that you feel guilty, aren't doing anything about it, but don't want other people to think badly of you. Own your decision.

A society that deifies children! You cannot be serious!! Children in this country are loathed - child free spaces and events grow by the day. What sort of fucked up society thinks it's ok to CHARGE children to come to weddings? Children are members of the social family unit, just like their elderly relatives, but they certainly aren't treated as such. A significant number of people would rather they were in an underground cave somewhere out of sight until they turn 18; a huge number of them are regretted for even existing. They are groomed before they even leave the womb as the consumers of the future and as adults we afford them totally inadequate protection from this. The innocence of childhood ends very early for this generation of youngsters. Outdoor play is a distant dream. They are exposed to the unrelenting danger and pressure of the internet without the developmental requirements needed to navigate it safely. Should they develop mental health problems and very many of them will (unsurprisingly), they better be prepared for a long wait for any help for the God like status we afford our children does not stretch to investing in services that support them. Let them attempt suicide first then they can access some 'help', but only if they are preapared to wait another year for some therapy. The fact that there are people on this site openly CRITICISING parents who are thinking of the needs and future of their own children (who have far more years ahead of them to consider), demonstrates the contempt they have for the rights of the child. Deify my arse.

@CHIRIBAYA well actually the UK has a pretty weird relationship with childhood and family. On the one hand, lots of women sacrifice their lives for raising little kids, give up work, get no outside help or support and see the 15 years of a kids life like the most important thing ever - but then kids and to some extent parents are almost cast aside age 18. So weird. It's absolutely unlike anywhere else in Europe and in most of the world. If family/kids are important enough to give up jobs/go p/t basically reduce women to being reliant on husbands and potentially ending up with very poor pension provision - then why on earth is everyone so happy to just see 18-year-olds waltz into the sunset.

I was brought up abroad and besides the drinking culture, the family culture is yet another thing that will forever baffle me, and not in a good way. Brits both sacrifice everything and nothing for their families - so odd

Hi OP
Not wanting to derail the thread but you mentioned that your DH father will be going into accommodation soon? Has he been assessed as needing this and has this been definitely agreed? Only asking as it may not be as straightforward as you think - demand for specialist dementia care is high and very expensive. You say that your PinL are wealthy and can afford this - if that is the case they will need to self fund and it can be eye-wateringly expensive.
Link from Alzheimers gives indication of costs www.alzheimers.org.uk/blog/how-much-does-dementia-care-cost

@Ericaequites

I am not being racist, but there are many more Mandarin than French speakers in Vancouver.

I don't understand why that would be a reason against moving there. It's hard not to see this comment as racist.

@StuffinThePuffin because further up the threat somebody mentioned that Canada is not an Anglophone country because they also speak french. PP just tried to point out that in Vancouver more people are likely to speak Mandarin than French - which is a perfectly valid point