To move away and leave elderly in-laws behind?

[Summerplans7]

DH’s company has been talking to him about the chance of a transfer abroad. His job is perfectly safe here in the U.K., but the opportunity abroad is a country we have both always wanted to live in (although with Covid restrictions almost impossible to get to at the moment), but it would take us far from his elderly parents.

His mother would be devastated as she is close to our children and has been lonely over the last few years due to Covid, and the health of his his father has declined severely (he has dementia and isn’t really “there” anymore). I feel guilty even considering it. So does DH.

Do you think it would be selfish to go? It would be selfish of course, I know, but these chances only come around once in a lifetime (for us anyway).

All the restrictions have made us crave an adventure more than ever. The country we are considering is also frequently on the top of the list for qualify of life, and places to raise children, making it more tempting. And I have a good friend who lives there, so it wouldn’t be totally alien.

MIL wouldn’t want to come, even if FIL wasn’t unwell, so that’s not an option. She has a lot of friends and a community here and doesn’t intend to ever leave her area. She is actually pushing us to move nearer (we’re not far at the moment), has even suggested we all move in together (not an option for me).

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School education is not nearly as good as uk

Yes, I'm afraid that is the case. So maybe research that, OP, if you're looking into general decision making.

@StuffinThePuffin someone made the case that it's great for kids to live in Canada because they will be bi-lingual in English and French. Putting aside that the west coast isn't French speaking anyway, pointing out that Mandarin is basically the second language in Vancouver, isn't racist, but is relevant to that post.

[quote ghluhaefupareh134]@StuffinThePuffin because further up the threat somebody mentioned that Canada is not an Anglophone country because they also speak french. PP just tried to point out that in Vancouver more people are likely to speak Mandarin than French - which is a perfectly valid point[/quote]
There you go being all reasonable and ruining someone's opportunity to shoehorn in (spurious) claim of racism.

Except no-one did say they would be bilingual.

But it’s a valid point that Vancouver and also US west coast cities are Asia and pacific-oriented business-wise and have significant numbers of Asian language speakers.

[quote Fhlneihn1345]@CHIRIBAYA well actually the UK has a pretty weird relationship with childhood and family. On the one hand, lots of women sacrifice their lives for raising little kids, give up work, get no outside help or support and see the 15 years of a kids life like the most important thing ever - but then kids and to some extent parents are almost cast aside age 18. So weird. It's absolutely unlike anywhere else in Europe and in most of the world. If family/kids are important enough to give up jobs/go p/t basically reduce women to being reliant on husbands and potentially ending up with very poor pension provision - then why on earth is everyone so happy to just see 18-year-olds waltz into the sunset.

I was brought up abroad and besides the drinking culture, the family culture is yet another thing that will forever baffle me, and not in a good way. Brits both sacrifice everything and nothing for their families - so odd[/quote]
I agree so much with all of this.

I don't think British people realise how different their culture is to other countries. Family relationships with parents/adult children are so much less close in the UK than in other cultures.

I

If MIL is already paying for dementia carers, including overnights, and FIL is soon to go into a home, it’s most likely that she’s well acquainted with dementia care home costs..

You don’t need the kind of assessment you’re taking about for private dementia care homes.

Good dementia care homes in London and the SE start at 50k per year and can be as much as 90k.

@Atalune

op I love that you think money can somehow provide the support that having her son in Canada removes.

I can tell you from watching my mother care for my dying dad when he had cancer. We had carers, we had external support. We had the hospice involved. We had food deliveries.

But there is no service that will fill the gap of a loving relative who will give you the companionship and moral support you need. None at all.

You want to go. Even though you wouldn’t go if your own mother was still alive. If you cannot compute that disparity then I don’t really understand why your posting as all you really want is validation for your choice.

everything about this is correct.

Who says OP thinks any such thing? She merely explained the financial aspects of FIL's care to the people who assumed MIL would be doing all of it herself.

But just because OP wouldn't have left her own mother, doesn't mean that her DH feels the same way about HIS mother, or that the OP "should" feel like that for her MIL.

I don’t think the op “should” feel anything for her MIL either in particular. It’s just interesting to see how the decision making would be if it was her blood relatives.

That’s all.

I think the point is the relationship they had though, isn't it? Not the fact that it's her blood relative.

I disagree.

The decision OP would make about her mother, is not the same as the decision her DH would make about his own mother.

It’s his job that offers the relocation opportunity, thus he is the instigator of this.

It’s very odd to imply that OP should make the same decision about her MIL that she would make about her own mother. It’s not actually her call.

I disagree.

I think it’s more nuanced than that. And yes you’re right, the decisions, dynamics and relationships are different between the son/mother . I do get that.

I also think it’s really interesting that the op has stated if it were her mum it would be a non starter and she’s taking her dad with her. Isn’t that intriguing about the female familial obligation?

It’s really interesting that the values are so different.

But it’s just an observation.

If you want your children to be bilingual in French, Vancouver is not the place to go. Toronto and many other places in eastern Canada as well as Quebec have French immersion schools designed for Anglophones. Mandarin is much harder for English speakers to learn; many lessons are sponsored by the Chinese government and include anti democratic ideology. I’d rather let my children go hungry than be exposed to Communism before they are old enough to refute it. In just over a century, Communism has murdered over 100 million people. Ask the Uighers about how racist the Chinese are.

I also think it’s really interesting that the op has stated if it were her mum it would be a non starter and she’s taking her dad with her. Isn’t that intriguing about the female familial obligation?

Not really. It exists without question, but some men are close to their parents and wouldn’t leave them - one of my BILs for example; and some women choose to relocate abroad. One of my mum’s friends has one DD living in Aus and the other in the US. Depends on the personalities and relationships involved. And also where careers take people a friend of mine has to be located in Aus for her work that she can’t do in any other country. Her mum lives here. So they go backwards and forwards to see each other.

Has OP said she wants her kids to be bilingual?

@Ericaequites

If you want your children to be bilingual in French, Vancouver is not the place to go. Toronto and many other places in eastern Canada as well as Quebec have French immersion schools designed for Anglophones. Mandarin is much harder for English speakers to learn; many lessons are sponsored by the Chinese government and include anti democratic ideology. I’d rather let my children go hungry than be exposed to Communism before they are old enough to refute it. In just over a century, Communism has murdered over 100 million people. Ask the Uighers about how racist the Chinese are.

@Ericaequites do you have up to date stats that support your assertion that Mandarin is the second most common language spoken in Vancouver? Only my understanding was that it had a massive Cantonese-speaking population, driven by a huge exodus from Hong Kong in the late 90s just before handover. This is based on knowing loads of Cantonese-speaking Canadian Chinese people who had come back over to HK when I lived there. Despite what the PRC government would like to happen, Cantonese speakers (especially those outside China) tend to very much object to communist ideology.

(Also I googled something a moment ago that suggested Punjabi was actually the second most common language spoken in Vancouver in 2011).

No OP .. to answer your original post I wouldn't do it in a million years. You can be selfish or selfless in life. This is definitely the former.

They are not your responsibility and you are not responsible for their happiness. You need to make the decision that is right for your family unit not based on the perceived burden of relatives who have lived their lives already. Besides if it's a short flight you can visit!

Walking out on sick parents is a terrible thing to do. Visiting frequently is the best way to ensure good care. It can’t be done from 6,000 miles away. Money can’t buy you love, and that’s what OP’s in laws will need most. Would you put a young child in a boarding nursery because they were inconvenient, and call weekly to check in? Demented folk are no less needy, and can’t speak for themselves.
I have watched my maternal great grandfather, all four of his biological children, and my mother die from a mix of Alzheimer’s and vascular dementia. It’s not a death I would wish on a dog. If each of them could have had a few moments of clarity, they would have begged for a quick death. My relatives and I visited daily. We didn’t go because they knew who we were, but who they used to be.
You may have a nice time in Canada, but your conscience will forever remind you about those you betrayed back home.

From the emotional blackmail on this thread, some people appear to believe you cannot leave the country you are born in until your parents die.

It’s MIL who is putting FIL in a home not OP, and she is the one responsible for visiting him regularly.

I did not bring forth my children for them to be tied to me until I croak and feel obliged to care for me in my dotage.

@TatianaBis

From the emotional blackmail on this thread, some people appear to believe you cannot leave the country you are born in until your parents die.

It’s MIL who is putting FIL in a home not OP, and she is the one responsible for visiting him regularly.

I did not bring forth my children for them to be tied to me until I croak and feel obliged to care for me in my dotage.

You can leave the country you’re born in any time you like but leaving it until your parents are old enough to need your support smacks of callousness to me.

The people I know who had ex pat lives left in their 20s and returned home when their parents were no longer able to travel.

I think all the people who airily announce that they’d be happy for their kids to live thousands of miles away are probably relatively young and are unlikely to have to even consider it for a very long time.

In reality most of us would slap a smile on, wish them well and wave them off with a sinking heart. Particularly now when we’ve seen how quickly the world can close down and travel become impossible.

I want my kids to live their life.

I don't expect them to care for me when I’m old. If they want to help me in the future that would bd great but I’d rather they did it out of love and not guilt/obligation.

I was expected by my family of origin to provide care and financial support. I managed 5 years then I left.

Was I supposed to wait until my elderly relative died to be allowed a life of my own? I’d be 41 and thinking of having kids. Hell no. No regrets here.

Do whatever’s best for you and your immediate family.
MIL has options.