Think the way people use the term 'trans widow' is insensitive to actual widows?

[justmaybenot]

The wives of men who have transitioned often use the term 'trans widow' and some of the responses to this letter from an actual widow have expressed some envy for someone whose husband has died rather than transitioned. AIBU to think it's overblown and deeply insensitive to liken the experience of your dh transitioning to the position of someone whose dh has actually died? This is the letter rachelemoss.com/2021/06/24/a-letter-to-trans-widows-from-an-actual-widow/

Well I’m a widow.
Firstly, I am a widow to the pp who expressed astonishment that it was a term still used now.
If someone called themselves a widow and they weren’t I would find it distasteful and showing a lack of comprehension.
If someone calls themselves a trans widow, I can’t see any issue at all. It is drawing parallels between the situations which are absolutely valid. It is not saying a trans widow is a widow, hence the different terminology.
The irony of this complaint is interesting in the extreme.

I'm a widow. I truly don't think I have a monopoly on grief, let alone dictate what the right sort of grief might be or how it might be labelled. Context is all here and just taking the word 'widow' out of context in order to indulge in transphobia sits badly with me.

just taking the word 'widow' out of context in order to indulge in transphobia sits badly with me.

Are you implying that's remotely what the transwidows are doing? 'Indulging in transphobia'?

@EnidPrunehat

I'm a widow. I truly don't think I have a monopoly on grief, let alone dictate what the right sort of grief might be or how it might be labelled. Context is all here and just taking the word 'widow' out of context in order to indulge in transphobia sits badly with me.

Can I just clarify, if I may, that you are saying that those who's stories are on the transwidow site are indulging in transphobia.

X posted

@EnidPrunehat They are not taking the word out of context. They are making clear the distinction.
Transphobia, really!
Women are talking about their own experience. That is not transphobia.
Again, the irony is jump off the page.

Context is all here and just taking the word 'widow' out of context in order to indulge in transphobia sits badly with me.

EnidPrunehat
This interview provides the context (it has nothing to do with this group of women 'indulging in transphobia') :
www.womenarehuman.com/these-chains-that-have-no-name-interview-with-trans-widows-voices/

Jumping

Context is all here.

Yes, it certainly is.

Without the wider context these women wouldn’t even have needed to come up with some description of the depth of grief they feel. So how about we agree to cancel the wider context and actions/behaviours that have led to this situation, and then we can also cancel the use of the term.

Context is all here and just taking the word 'widow' out of context in order to indulge in transphobia sits badly with me.

It's not taken out of context. The prefix of trans may provide you with a clue to that.

Maybe you should explore the horrific trauma and coercive control some trans widows have experienced before accusing them of transphobia. It's always useful to at least make some attempt to understand. Being a trans widow isn't some form of identity politics ffs.

Without the wider context these women wouldn’t even have needed to come up with some description of the depth of grief they feel. So how about we agree to cancel the wider context and actions/behaviours that have led to this situation, and then we can also cancel the use of the term

Yep

Context is all here and just taking the word 'widow' out of context in order to indulge in transphobia sits badly with me

aaand there we have it, trans widows are indulging in transphobia.

What a truly disgusting comment. All those women who are trans widows who have suffered an appalling betrayal at the hands of their spouses are transphobic for correctly and accurately defining themselves and their feelings. Fabulous, just fabulous.

By the way EnidPrunehat what are golf widows indulging in? Golfophobia? How about football widows? Footballophobia? Cricketophobia for cricket widows?

I've a lot on (terminally ill dh, ds w SN who is having meltdowns as he can't visit the hospital today due to COVID restrictions, etc.)

Sorry to hear this, OP. If you had said earlier, I think MNers would have responded more sympathetically. We get so much shit for defending women’s rights, some of us get a bit prickly.

You don’t need a heap of extra stress at this difficult time. So I would do as you say, go out and enjoy the rare patch of sunshine if it’s still shining. I hope things go as well as possible for DH, DS and you.

MN generally is a good place to come to if you need to talk.

Thanks for that link @R0wantrees
The sense of isolation jumps out, which is something I can relate to.
I think it must be tremendously important to speak to those with similar experiences so I am glad that these groups are coming together.
This thread is really nasty in intent. Words do have specific meaning. A widow is a widow. Words can also be used in a metaphorical sense. Trans widow is a case in point. Please find some outraged widows if you can. You will struggle.
Woman is also a word with a specific meaning.

some of the responses to this letter from an actual widow have expressed some envy for someone whose husband has died rather than transitioned.

You are mistaken here, OP. I have read all 30 replies on Rachel Moss’s blog. Almost all agree with her, many of them from TRAs using their usual insulting words for women. A few sympathise with the trans widows too. None express any envy for women whose husbands have died.

And I've a lot on (terminally ill dh, ds w SN who is having meltdowns as he can't visit the hospital today due to COVID restrictions, etc.)

I'm sorry about your DH.

I’m very sorry to hear about your DH @justmaybenot and I hope that you will enjoy the sunshine today.

I just saw that update. I second thinkingaboutlangcleg in her post.
You have a lot to process and people here will be good to help with that in time.

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

I've a lot on (terminally ill dh, ds w SN who is having meltdowns as he can't visit the hospital today due to COVID restrictions, etc.)

Sorry to hear this, OP. If you had said earlier, I think MNers would have responded more sympathetically. We get so much shit for defending women’s rights, some of us get a bit prickly.

You don’t need a heap of extra stress at this difficult time. So I would do as you say, go out and enjoy the rare patch of sunshine if it’s still shining. I hope things go as well as possible for DH, DS and you.

MN generally is a good place to come to if you need to talk.

Well thanks, my ds had a bit of a meltdown earlier just after my first post so I'd to go deal with him and by the time I came back (from what I could see) the whole thread had sort of taken off so I didn't want to derail it, felt a bit backed into a corner I guess.

I don't want to project into sthing I don't have absolutely personal experience of, but recognise that many women whose husbands have transitioned must experience really complex grief.

I've only really used MN to talk at the time of my son's diagnosis and did find it very helpful back then thanks.

If a man who says he feels like a woman is allowed to demand to be treated as a literal woman, why can a woman who feels like a widow not be allowed to say she is a widow?

Well if you have a problem with the former, then unless you are a total hypocrite, you should also have a problem with the latter, surely?

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

some of the responses to this letter from an actual widow have expressed some envy for someone whose husband has died rather than transitioned.

You are mistaken here, OP. I have read all 30 replies on Rachel Moss’s blog. Almost all agree with her, many of them from TRAs using their usual insulting words for women. A few sympathise with the trans widows too. None express any envy for women whose husbands have died.

I meant on twitter - the responses to the blog are a bit confusing. She has actually said 'Trans people don’t erase their pasts by transitioning! They don’t only exist from the moment they come out! Tbh I think sometimes trans-positive discourse doesn’t help with this either.' One response to her was 'At least this widow is able to talk about her husband who died....Imho it's worse. WAY worse'.

@saraclara

If a man who says he feels like a woman is allowed to demand to be treated as a literal woman, why can a woman who feels like a widow not be allowed to say she is a widow?

Well if you have a problem with the former, then unless you are a total hypocrite, you should also have a problem with the latter, surely?

Except that there is no suggestion that trans widows are literal widows. The term is used metaphorically.

Obviously many widows may still find any metaphorical use of the word ‘widow’ upsetting. However it’s then odd to suggest that a woman in her 60’s should happily accept that her marriage has been retconned (in a legal, not metaphorical sense) to suit the wishes of her spouse.

Trans people don’t erase their pasts by transitioning!

That is the point of a GRC. The goal is to hide the past. It may be illegal to disclose the trans status of somebody who holds a GRC.

Children who are transitioning are offered new nhs numbers; if that's not erasing the past I don't know what is.

Incredibly insensitive