Think the way people use the term 'trans widow' is insensitive to actual widows?

[justmaybenot]

The wives of men who have transitioned often use the term 'trans widow' and some of the responses to this letter from an actual widow have expressed some envy for someone whose husband has died rather than transitioned. AIBU to think it's overblown and deeply insensitive to liken the experience of your dh transitioning to the position of someone whose dh has actually died? This is the letter rachelemoss.com/2021/06/24/a-letter-to-trans-widows-from-an-actual-widow/

You’ve even made the Sunday Telegraph. It feels good, right, to feel seen?

Sunday Telegraph
'Trans widows' fear being trapped in loveless marriages if gender law changes
Activists want ministers to scrap an agreement that allows women to exit a heterosexual marriage before it legally becomes homosexual

(extract)
‘Trans widows’ face being trapped in loveless marriages if their spouses no longer need their permission to change gender, MPs examining proposals to change the law have been warned.

Activists are asking ministers to ditch the requirement for a spouse's agreement, a clause that some women say is a lifeline for them if their husband transitions to female.

It allows them to exit a heterosexual marriage before it legally becomes homosexual, or get an annulment for those who cannot divorce for cultural reasons. (continues)

But MPs on the Commons women and equalities select committee are holding an inquiry looking at how laws could make changing gender easier, as part of a wider probe into reforms of the Gender Recognition Act.

The LGBT charity Stonewall told MPs it “strongly urges” scrapping the spousal consent provision, citing the 84.9 per cent who disagreed with it in the Government’s recent GRA consultation.

Jennifer Kimmel, who lives in Ireland, said her childrens’ bedroom became a sanctuary when her husband changed gender.

“It just became an unlivable situation. We [trans widows] are terrified to speak. We are often trapped. We have very little support,” she said.(continues)
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/20/trans-widows-fear-trapped-loveless-marriages-gender-law-changes/

@justmaybenot
I'm curious. What led you to the blog in your OP?
What made you link it to Mumsnet, or post about it here?
Its not a subject you claim to know anything about so its all a bit random.

There were quite a few comments from widows on the other thread (linked to on this thread a couple of times already). Some find the term upsetting or offensive, many do not and have said that they fully understand and accept why it is used. Every individual is allowed to have their own feelings on whether or not they like the term or not. One widow wrote out a beautiful and very touching comment on why she felt the term is appropriate. It made a lot of sense. It doesn’t at all take away from those who feel differently, of course.

With respect, I’ve decided to post it here.

PrawnofthePatriarchy wrote:

I am a widow. It took DH a year from diagnosis til death. In the end he lost consciousness in his favourite chair and died in the ambulance. Our DC were 7 and 10. So the whole tragic thing.

I know I can only speak for myself but I am perfectly happy that trans widows use the phrase for themselves. It's very apt, in that the man they married has gone forever.

I feel they have it much harder than I did. The betrayal, the creepy sex stuff, the lying. It's like a friend who broke up with her DH while mine was dying. Extreme DV, an affair with her best friend - my friend hasn't a single memory of her marriage that isn't tainted.

Me? Well my DH adored me and our DC. 17 good years. The last year of his life was the best of our marriage. All the petty squabbles disappeared. All that remained was love.

It's a long time ago now. My DC are in their twenties. And I still smile every time I think of him.

I think trans widows should feel free to use the phrase. It makes sense, it's descriptive of reality.

@SupermanInk

LolaButt

I’m sorry for your loss.

Utilising the word widow - I can understand the correlation but it’s not the same.

It’s not the same, I agree, which is why they use the term trans widows and not widows.

Thank you. Appreciate your kindness.

Respectfully, using the word trans widow still is terming ones self as a widow. When the person you love who has transitioned is still alive (albeit with the plethora of changes and emotional impacts for all), they’re still breathing. A dead spouse isn’t and there’s no sidestepping that.

I’m not seeking to minimise the experience and feelings of women who have lost everything. They have my love and empathy in spades.

We don’t have gay widows, lesbian widows, divorce widows, long term relationship widows, boyfriend widows etc when a relationship ends.

I’m probably going to bail out of this conversation now as it is too close to home. I do genuinely wish any lady who is grieving the loss of their relationship love and strength.

So can anyone explain how this group of women can describe themselves without giving offense?

Or how we can extricate ourselves from a broken marriage and all the legal gubbins without either dead naming or outing our partner?

justmaybenot this is an extract from the letter:

The media and your online friends have encouraged you to think there’s some kind of malignant trans cabal who have stolen your partner, who have taken away your happy life. But there isn’t, and you are as responsible for the future (or not) of your marriage as your partner is.

Having read this thread can you not understand why this is offensive and ignorant? Many trans widows have been subject to years of coercive control, but the letter writer again denies them agency. Stonewall is campaigning to remove their ability to exit their marriage on their own terms, but the letter writer glibly blames them for not ‘taking control’.

[quote Thelnebriati]@justmaybenot
I'm curious. What led you to the blog in your OP?
What made you link it to Mumsnet, or post about it here?
Its not a subject you claim to know anything about so its all a bit random.[/quote]
I was led to the blog by twitter, someone I follow shared it or responded to it - someone who knows the author and was sympathising with her. I don't read the Sunday Telegraph or any British newspapers. I found the some of the comments to her to be really unkind. I very very very occasionally look at AIBU and hadn't seen anything on trans widows but its clearly a place where people post questions that they think might create an interesting discussion. That's all, no big mystery

We don’t have gay widows, lesbian widows, divorce widows, long term relationship widows, boyfriend widows etc when a relationship ends.

I think the difference is that when other relationships end there is no concept of ‘deadnaming’ and no legal requirement to hide a past life.

There are much better ways to support a woman with a young daughter recently widowed in such tragic circumstances.

The most recent comments on the blog are now by trans people who are attacking the author.

In fact, if you go now and look at the list of AIBU threads, there's nothing on there that suggests a trans issue other than this. I know maybe there's a majority of British people posting on here but not everyone is here all the time or as engaged in certain debates as others, particularly if they're not in the UK.

Is it a trans issue? I thought it was a caring about widows issue...

I'm a widow. Can't say I've given it any thought. As for things like 'golf widow', I don't seriously think people using that expression are seriously equating themselves with actual widows.

@justmaybenot

In fact, if you go now and look at the list of AIBU threads, there's nothing on there that suggests a trans issue other than this. I know maybe there's a majority of British people posting on here but not everyone is here all the time or as engaged in certain debates as others, particularly if they're not in the UK.

That's because MN move such threads, as they will this one. Where have you been if you don't know this?

Hmmmm

chickenyhead where have I been? Just not on MN a lot!

This is what happened when i searched for the term trans widow FYI

So you found nothing? Perhaps because other posters found out that the majority of women don't agree with them and so asked for the post to be deleted in order to silence women's voices.

So why would you ask for the post to be deleted OP? If you genuinely want to know peoples thoughts on thoughts on the issue - well, you've got them. Why delete them? If you were concerned that when you searched you couldn't find anything - well now there is a thread other people can search for and find. Why delete it? Unless you want to silence women that is.

I really hope MN pushes back against this and refuses to delete the post. If they do delete they are complicit in silencing women.

@justmaybenot

chickenyhead where have I been? Just not on MN a lot!

It's amazing how many people don't spend much time here or know the place well, who still turn up when they've decided what the world needs is their input into why women are wrong about more or less everything with regards to transgenderism.

I very very very occasionally look at AIBU and hadn't seen anything on trans widows but its clearly a place where people post questions that they think might create an interesting discussion.

@DeathStare

This is what happened when i searched for the term trans widow FYI

So you found nothing? Perhaps because other posters found out that the majority of women don't agree with them and so asked for the post to be deleted in order to silence women's voices.

So why would you ask for the post to be deleted OP? If you genuinely want to know peoples thoughts on thoughts on the issue - well, you've got them. Why delete them? If you were concerned that when you searched you couldn't find anything - well now there is a thread other people can search for and find. Why delete it? Unless you want to silence women that is.

I really hope MN pushes back against this and refuses to delete the post. If they do delete they are complicit in silencing women.

I've only asked @MNHQ if they want to delete it as so many posters have intimated I'm trolling and I couldn't be arsed having to prove I'm not - see the quizzing about where I read the blog etc. I haven't asked to delete it. I'm not a troll and I don't really care whether it's deleted or not.

If people on here think your thread should be deleted, they'll contact MNHQ about it. If you yourself truly do not care if it stands or not, you can sit back and not interfere in the process.

FWIW, I don't think you're trolling. God knows enough people believe this stuff and they pop up on here, a famous female-centric website, every day. You prompt various feelings in many of us, but unprepared shock and surprise are not among them.

@justmaybenot

This is what happened when i searched for the term trans widow FYI - not everyone who posts about this is a troll/trying to goad you/acting in bad faith

You will get the same 'oops' result if you search 'children' , 'biscuits' or anything else. Its not working.

Advanced search for 'trans widows' threads in the last year yields this result. Two of the six are threads were started in recent days to attack the women who have organised support with each other under the name 'transwidows' following last week's Sunday Telegraph article.

No one has accused you of being a troll, and dissenting posts are not being aggressive.

Well. A little heads up on MN etiquette:

Threads generally aren’t deleted based on how many people don’t agree with them or on how robust a discussion becomes. They’re only deleted if they’re ‘not in the spirit of the site’ or in other rare cases such as privacy concerns, PBP or trolling.

We generally don’t report and delete everything we don’t like or don’t agree with.

@Ninkanink

Couple of things to think about, just for a start:

The trans widows aren’t turning up at actual widows’ meetings demanding to be let in, or claiming they’re ‘literal widows’, or demanding that all widows accept them as true widows.

If a man who says he feels like a woman is allowed to demand to be treated as a literal woman, why can a woman who feels like a widow not be allowed to say she is a widow?

I'd love for someone to answer this.

@justmaybenot

In fact, if you go now and look at the list of AIBU threads, there's nothing on there that suggests a trans issue other than this. I know maybe there's a majority of British people posting on here but not everyone is here all the time or as engaged in certain debates as others, particularly if they're not in the UK.

That's because very recently MNHQ were lobbied to contain all gender critical posts into one area so as not to contaminate the rest of the site.

Up until just last week you would have found some threads on the subject in AIBU. But there has been a concerted effort to shuffle them all off into the rather oddly named "Sex and gender debate".

Your confusion and inability to find posts on the topic is just one of the possibly fully intended consequences.

Don't take it personally, your problem is just one foreseen by some of the many gender critical feminists who regularly post here. We were told this reshuffle wouldn't prevent people finding posts on any GC topic... yet here you are, duly confused.