Think the way people use the term 'trans widow' is insensitive to actual widows?

[justmaybenot]

The wives of men who have transitioned often use the term 'trans widow' and some of the responses to this letter from an actual widow have expressed some envy for someone whose husband has died rather than transitioned. AIBU to think it's overblown and deeply insensitive to liken the experience of your dh transitioning to the position of someone whose dh has actually died? This is the letter rachelemoss.com/2021/06/24/a-letter-to-trans-widows-from-an-actual-widow/

If trans widows were declaring themselves actual widows, gate crashing support groups for widows and making a claim on bereavement allowances, then you'd have a point.

Iwant2move

My Dad had to break the news of my Mum's sudden death to me and my siblings when we were children. Its not the same as being the surviving parent but I do know what we had to hold together.

There is no possibility of these women impacted by a specific form of intimate partner abuse turning up at a widows support group.
They may want to attend women's services providing of course they can be reassured they are single sex and those running the support group have some awareness and empathy for their experiences.

A widow refers to someone with a dead spouse. Dead is in not breathing. Not transitioned but still breathing.

It's also used to describe other situations. Such as the situation trans widows find themselves in. Trans widows have every right to use it. I'm not going to stop using the term.

@FourTeaFallOut

If trans widows were declaring themselves actual widows, gate crashing support groups for widows and making a claim on bereavement allowances, then you'd have a point.

Someone linked to a site called trans widows.

Therefore some are declaring themselves as widows.

They’re not widowed. Their spouse is still breathing.

If trans widows were declaring themselves actual widows, gate crashing support groups for widows and making a claim on bereavement allowances, then you'd have a point.

Exactly.

If trans widows were declaring themselves actual widows, gate crashing support groups for widows and making a claim on bereavement allowances, then you'd have a point.

Indeed. Where's the rage at transwomen who do actually do this. Or doesn't that count.

@Erikrie

A widow refers to someone with a dead spouse. Dead is in not breathing. Not transitioned but still breathing.

It's also used to describe other situations. Such as the situation trans widows find themselves in. Trans widows have every right to use it. I'm not going to stop using the term.

Totally fine if you want to use the term.

Just as it’s totally fine for me to continue to categorically state that you are not a widow. Because your spouse is still breathing.

They’re not widowed. Their spouse is still breathing.

That's right. That's why they're trans widows.

LolaButt

Again, they’re calling themselves trans widows, not widows. It’s different. Just like the difference between women and trans women, an important difference.

Trans widows

There's a word there that precedes the word widow which qualifies the term as something distinct from a widow.

Like pantomime horse or rocking horse, neither of which is an actual horse.

Oh stop it, Lola, L O L A, Lola!

They are widows in the same ways as seahorses are horses...

... and transwomen are women...

... sweetbreads are sweet or bread.

And so on!

Just as it’s totally fine for me to continue to categorically state that you are not a widow. Because your spouse is still breathing.

Actually my spouse is dead. I'm a widow. I'm also happy for trans widows to use the term to describe their situation.

@Erikrie

If trans widows were declaring themselves actual widows, gate crashing support groups for widows and making a claim on bereavement allowances, then you'd have a point.

Indeed. Where's the rage at transwomen who do actually do this. Or doesn't that count.

Many trans widows have experienced their ex husband asking the kids to call him Mum, in fact a French trans woman unsuccessfully went to court to try and achieve the legal status of mother. I don't recall seeing any threads here on Mumsnet condemning that appropriation.

www.france24.com/en/20200916-french-court-rules-transgender-woman-cannot-be-recognised-as-child-s-mother

@merrymouse

justmaybenot everyone on this board has a story to tell, which is why you should be wary of posting threads like this ‘just for amusement’. Better to post with a willingness to listen and engage.

I didn't say I posted just for amusement, I said I read AIBU mainly for amusement.

There is no statement on MN that says it's for people whose partners have transitioned or have a particular experience or stance in relation to that. It's not a crime to not know that this is what has happened on this site or for people to engage with it differently.

Not everyone is in the UK, not everyone is fully involved in this discussion, there's no need to slam a casual visitor to what is a public forum for being a casual visitor. Given the level of debate and support for Rachel Mosse (as well as some comments here on MN from people whose husbands have died), it's clear not everyone agrees with the terminology.

I'm more than willing to listen and have set aside time this evening to read more.

Many trans widows have experienced their ex husband asking the kids to call him Mum, in fact a French trans woman unsuccessfully went to court to try and achieve the legal status of mother. I don't recall seeing any threads here on Mumsnet condemning that appropriation.

I've read that before. It's utterly sickening and horrific. I really feel for trans widows in this situation. And it hugely fucks me off that there are people here trying to control the language you use to describe yourself.

widow has a number of meanings:

To cause to become a widow or widower.
Widowed by the war.
verb

A woman whose husband has died (who has not remarried); feminine of widower.
noun

(informal, in combination) A woman whose husband is often away pursuing a sport, etc.
noun

An additional hand of cards dealt face down in some card games, to be used by the highest bidder.
noun

(printing) A single line of type that ends a paragraph, carried over to the next page or column.
noun

We don't need to make everything a competition, grief is grief

This. And I have great sympathy for widows too.

Given the level of debate and support for Rachel Mosse

I think you'll find that in the widow support groups she uses, there are many people that are not speaking up against her as it destroys the supportive environment that these groups set out to do. It doesn't mean that there's a majority agreement with her aggressive stance on this.

We don't need to make everything a competition, grief is grief

Yes.

There is no statement on MN that says it's for people whose partners have transitioned or have a particular experience or stance in relation to that. It's not a crime to not know that this is what has happened on this site or for people to engage with it differently.

I didn’t say you shouldn’t post here, I said that if you did you should post with the intention of listening and engaging.

Do you now understand why your link was misleading Re: concerns of trans widows?

I believe the term originated from mumsnet (?) so the strength of feeling in the responses are really no surprise.

As a result, mn and especially feminism boards, are areas of frequent visits by 'community disruptors' who like to stir the pot. Also hence the strength of feeling in responses.

But also, this is AIBU.

@WarriorN

I believe the term originated from mumsnet (?) so the strength of feeling in the responses are really no surprise.

As a result, mn and especially feminism boards, are areas of frequent visits by 'community disruptors' who like to stir the pot. Also hence the strength of feeling in responses.

But also, this is AIBU.

It didn't originate on MN I'm not sure who originally coined it. It might have been Christine Benvenuto whose book "Sex Changes" I strongly recommend.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2012/nov/02/my-husbands-sex-change

I read the blog and I can certainly have sympathy for her. However, she has displayed no kindness to the people she is denigrating with her tone. And in fact seems to completely downplay the often incredibly abusive situations these women are left to deal with for themselves and their children.

I do wonder when people take the tone that she has, whether they even can consider that life is so very different from the wonderful affirming transition stories that are glamourised in the media. Whether they could ever conceive that there is a great deal of propaganda being created and spread about this topic.

I mean OP, you talk about how people answered aggressively to you. Do you now look at your initial post and understand the tone was set when you posted this?

AIBU to think it's overblown and deeply insensitive to liken the experience of your dh transitioning to the position of someone whose dh has actually died?

Ah thanks Tinsel. But the threads here which you started have definitely been a safe haven of support for many.

I remember directing a teacher on the tes boards who's husband had started to transition and she was struggling with his behaviour here. And more recently a friend of a friend.

And of course now the website.

Someone linked to a site called trans widows.

A site offering support to those women who find themselves in this position. They are not barging onto a site for widows and demanding to be placed front and centre unlike those who TWAW types who do that with anything remotely reserved for women.

Therefore some are declaring themselves as widows.

No, they are declaring themselves trans widows, note the addition of the prefix 'trans'

They’re not widowed. Their spouse is still breathing.

Their spouse may well be still breathing but as the spouse has decided that they are no longer the person the woman married and that that person the woman thought she was married to is now to all intents and purposes 'dead' using the term trans widow is a perfect, reasonable description and fits entirely with the view held by the spouse.