Think the way people use the term 'trans widow' is insensitive to actual widows?

[justmaybenot]

The wives of men who have transitioned often use the term 'trans widow' and some of the responses to this letter from an actual widow have expressed some envy for someone whose husband has died rather than transitioned. AIBU to think it's overblown and deeply insensitive to liken the experience of your dh transitioning to the position of someone whose dh has actually died? This is the letter rachelemoss.com/2021/06/24/a-letter-to-trans-widows-from-an-actual-widow/

FYI this is what I wrote to MNHQ:

Hello, I asked what I thought was an innocuous enough question but have clearly hit a massive nerve. I've no wish to offend or upset anyone, maybe you could take the thread down if you feel it is offensive? I'm not on MN a lot so have clearly missed that this is where people come for support when their husbands transition.

That's just a tad disingenuous, isn't it?

You haven't touched a nerve, you've walked into an ongoing discussion and not been aware of all that has to be before.

Take a few days to lurk, read round, see what grabs your attention.

CuriousaboutSamphire Yes, it has definitely had that effect. As I said, I did try to see if there was already a thread on it. It doesn't come up when you just put in a simple search. I didn't even know that blogpost was in the Telegraph - I don't know Rachel Mosse but I do know a fair few academics in the UK and as she's a university lecturer I'm semi-aware her husband died young just from colleagues comments on her posts showing up on my feed now and then. Tbh I can go for 6 months at a time without looking at MN so have missed that this is clearly a huge focus. If you only very very casually engage with AIBU you'd think it's still about bringing children to weddings, parking issues with neighbours and the like!

I asked what I thought was an innocuous enough question

I'm genuinely mystified as to how people can have so little thought for trans widows that they could genuinely believe this is "innocuous".

@justmaybenot

FYI this is what I wrote to MNHQ:

Hello, I asked what I thought was an innocuous enough question but have clearly hit a massive nerve. I've no wish to offend or upset anyone, maybe you could take the thread down if you feel it is offensive? I'm not on MN a lot so have clearly missed that this is where people come for support when their husbands transition.

I suppose you could have kept it to yourself, but passive aggression and disingenuousness doesn't work if people don't know you're doing it.

Amazing how many people don't know anything about MN other than that we need their lectures on transgender issues.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

That's just a tad disingenuous, isn't it?

You haven't touched a nerve, you've walked into an ongoing discussion and not been aware of all that has to be before.

Take a few days to lurk, read round, see what grabs your attention.

Well, no, I wrote to them before I had time to fully see that it was such a big discussion. I was taken aback by the 'here we go again' comments so thought ok this is obviously a big thing here, that's all. Anyway, thanks for explaining and I wish you all well.

Still no suggestions for alternative names?

I didn't even know that blogpost was in the Telegraph

Its not, the blog is a reaction to last week's Sunday Telegraph article which (for probably the first time in UK MSM) focuses on the impact to women who organise together as 'trans widows'. Specifically, the impact should Stonewall and other transactivist groups succeed in removing the spousal exit clause from the GRA.

The article has been archived here: archive.fo/7z5oG

Anyway, thanks for explaining and I wish you all well.

But no desire to engage with any of the points made, given that you thought the letter was worth posting?

Well, no, I wrote to them before I had time to fully see that it was such a big discussion. I was taken aback by the 'here we go again' comments so thought ok this is obviously a big thing here, that's all. Anyway, thanks for explaining and I wish you all well.

😂

@Thelnebriati

Still no suggestions for alternative names?

My opinion, is anything which doesn’t reference the word widow as the spouse is still alive and breathing.

@justmaybenot if you’re genuinely interested and actually wanted to engage then do stick around. Do some reading, do some thinking. There are many interesting discussions to be had (or to be caught up on),

I am a widow.
My husband was killed.
I had to go and identify his body. At the time, I didn't know he was dead. I thought I was being rushed to the hospital because he was in a critical condition.
I then had to go home and break the news to my children.
I no longer have a life. I exist.
I don't mind people calling themselves golf widows, cycling widows or trans widows.
I do mind when people say grief is grief as if all bereavements are the same. They are not.
I do mind when people say I have it easier because my 53 year old husband is dead. It's so much more of a loss if your husband admits he's been living a lie and wishes to transition. Utter bullshit! If you think this, consider yourself extremely lucky that you do not understand.
Consider yourself lucky that your children have not had to physically hold you up as you collapse screaming.
Consider yourself lucky that you have not had to physically hold your child up as he follows his father's coffin into the crematorium.
This is not living. My children can no longer have a hug from their father, hold a conversation with him. He will not see them married or have children.
He is a bag of ashes in the funeral director's storeroom because I am too traumatised to bring them home.
If a trans widow turned up at a widows support group, I'd be utterly broken.

If a trans widow turned up at a widows support group, I'd be utterly broken.

I'm sorry for your loss. That wouldn't happen as no trans widows are claiming to literally be widows.

@TinselAngel

If a trans widow turned up at a widows support group, I'd be utterly broken.

I'm sorry for your loss. That wouldn't happen as no trans widows are claiming to literally be widows.

Why call yourself a widow then?

Well, the host body might be, but the person isn't. To say so would be deadnaming.

But as it is a term that women choose to describe themselves I can see why you would object.

@merrymouse

Anyway, thanks for explaining and I wish you all well.

But no desire to engage with any of the points made, given that you thought the letter was worth posting?

Well I kept getting derailed by people questioning why I was even posting! And I've a lot on (terminally ill dh, ds w SN who is having meltdowns as he can't visit the hospital today due to COVID restrictions, etc.) So as I said, I wish you all well and if I ever ever visit MN again I'll know better. I mainly use it for AIBU amusement when I have insomnia and in the early days when my ds's condition was becoming most apparent as the special needs chat was often very helpful. Righto, think it's time to get out and enjoy the sunshine.

Why call yourself a widow then?

She’s not. She’s calling herself a trans widow.

Why call yourself a widow then?

www.transwidowsvoices.org/frequently-asked-questions

Because it is an analogy which makes sense when your spouse declares themselves to be a brand new shiny person and reference to the former self is akin to dead naming.

@SupermanInk

Why call yourself a widow then?

She’s not. She’s calling herself a trans widow.

A widow refers to someone with a dead spouse. Dead is in not breathing. Not transitioned but still breathing.

@justmaybenot

This is what happened when i searched for the term trans widow FYI - not everyone who posts about this is a troll/trying to goad you/acting in bad faith

That's weird, given I've just run the same search and get 38 results, the top one being this thread that appeared in the Feminism: Sex & gender section a couple of days ago, and is along very similar lines to your post: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4280226-The-use-of-the-term-trans-widow

I suspect that one reason why you're getting such a touchy response is the suspicion that this is simply a repost in a different area, in an attempt to get a more favourable reaction than the first one did. If you go and have a read of that one, you'll see that a number of different widows have said that they don't object to the transwidow label (including that great post from PrawnofthePatriarchy quoted earlier) as well as some interesting discussion on the theme of ambiguous grief. It'd probably be worth you reading that, as well as one of the transwidow support threads (or the Transwidows Voices website) to see the kind of shit they've had to put up with before expounding further on the subject.

justmaybenot everyone on this board has a story to tell, which is why you should be wary of posting threads like this ‘just for amusement’. Better to post with a willingness to listen and engage.

@FourTeaFallOut

Because it is an analogy which makes sense when your spouse declares themselves to be a brand new shiny person and reference to the former self is akin to dead naming.

Widowhood isn’t an analogy.

Oh, give over.