For feeling disappointed with my midwife friend

[southernerer]

One of my closest friends is a seniority midwife, we discussed this weekend my plans to train as a hypnobirthing teacher to have more flexible working and an added income. Her response was very firmly what a load of hippy nonsense, I explained it has helped myself and other friends cope with birth and manage without epidurals, she had been shocked at her own pain levels during birth and had requested an epidural at 4cm. To be clear im all for whatever pain relief you want but she openly admits she didn't cope well during her birth so feel she should be more open minded to things they could help esp as she's planning her second soon.
Also when I mentioned having a third baby, and after an EMCS then ELCS, I'd like another ELCS she was very very pushy that I should have a VBAC.
In other areas she's very open and not rigid in her thinking, for example her 3yr old still breastfeeds and bed shares every night with her but I just feel angry that women in her care must come across this very unsupportive midwife if their choices don't fit with her opinions!

Yep agree with this. Anyone who has had a serious complication knows any pretence at being in control goes out the window very quickly in an emergency.

Yes, no amount of imagining will stop nature taking it's course. However, the trained surgeons, drs and midwives can turn it around.

@thepeopleversuswork

Stuff like hypnobirthing (which really is largely about breathing methods and mantras and affirmations) can be learned from YouTube, but people sell it at great cost because it preys on women’s anxiety and fear of the process by giving them the sense that they have a way of controlling it and shaping their labour.

It's total snake oil.

It's one thing to offer hypnobirthing as a supplementary thing to help women deal with the fear/anxiety/stress.

But still so many of the message out there (including in the OP) suggest that hypnobirthing gives you "control" or makes the experience more "positive".

Let's be honest about this. Labour is usually bloody brutal. For a minority of people it may be slightly less brutal than for others. But that's a lottery. It's not something which hypnosis or any other kind of mental support will make any difference to, other than by helping support with stress or giving you a bit more resilience. The idea that you can go without pain relief for longer as a result of it or that you are less likely to tear, all this sort of stuff, is total horseshit. And its dangerous horseshit because it leads some women to believe they can be in control of it, actually making them far less prepared and less resilient.

I agree. I had intervention free, fairly easy, textbook labours for both of my children. This wasn’t due to anything I consciously did. My body did what it did without me having to think about doing anything. It was completely beyond my control. I’m very lucky. Not everyone is this lucky and it’s dangerous to attribute it to making the correct “positive” birthing decisions.

would view a positive birth as it going the way you envisioned

Hmm this bothers me. I had a complication-free pregnancy with plans for using the midwife led birthing centre and pool.

One day in to labour at home I had a haemorrhage and everything went out the window.

Birth is a medical event. It can be dangerous, have long lasting damage on baby and mother, can be fatal. That's why all the medical intervention exists. It's incredibly painful, that's why pain relief exists. It may not go the way you envision and you probably won't be in control, but that is okay! The aim is to get baby out and safe and you both be well.

I feel the Hypno birthing and natural birth movement only serves to make women feel like shit. If you have easy labours then it is luck.

I think the biggest lie sold to women in childbirth is that you can be in control. 'Here are techniques to help you feel in control.' I actually think it would be much more helpful to say 'you are out of control of this process, here are techniques to help you roll with that.'

Very well said.

As a comparison with another physiological function, you can use breathing techniques to slow your heart rate in some situations but you cannot breathe away a heart attack.

@Bluedeblue

Also, I bet my hat, that if men gave birth, there would be better pain relief offered.

I've had 2 births in 2 different European countries, and in both of them, nobody tried to talk me out of epidural or any other pain relief, or say it was too early/too late/sure I can cope/nobody available etc etc. The natural birth at all cost movement seems to be much stronger in the UK than many other places.

Oh my gosh! Why is it either, or? Why not have both? The hypnotherapy ( and I stress from a qualified hypnotist and tailored to you rather than a group class, or a quick ‘ course’, )will be very useful as a means to relax in many situations - I found it very useful during the birth and I certainly wasn’t all about ‘ natural’ , I think that’s a load of twaddle.
I still had gas and air, and yes, it hurt like billy o, and the annoying midwife kept saying,’well give you drugs in a minute’ , huh! Ive used it since to have second baby (11lb!) to fall asleep instantly for naps while baby slept, and more recently During Chemo. I find it a very effective way of relaxing and when you are relaxed and somehow let the pain flow through you it still hurts, of course, but the muscles are relaxed so it doesn’t hurt as much. Or that’s the theory ( I think)
He also did a thing where the pain free time between contractions seemed like ages, and the time of the contractions went super quick.
Amazing stuff.
Also Of coures have drugs! Of course make the most of all the wonderful science stuff we have. And of course anything that helps you get through amazing experience is worth a try. I just get a bit irritated with outer society that always mentions childbirth and pain in the same breath, and always shows women screaming their heads off. Am wondering if these scenes are written by/ directed by men...
Just, really, check who you are giving your money too.

WhyMrsRobinson I think part of the issue is there are so many people out there selling these hypnobirth and similar now, and making desirable to most promises like birth going the way we envisioned sometimes by people who are very good at looking the part that it can make it difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff, and then the chaff is what ends up giving it a reputation for the snake oil they're selling rather than what a well-trained professional could provide. I can see why some HCP might be wary.

I've never really tried hypnosis as I've kinda put it in the same category as mindfulness meditation and similar -- it helps some, but there is a lot of shite out there that tend to ignore the risks to certain groups. Having a trauma disorder, I've had that bite me a couple times so I've become wary of it all that I'm going to end up with something that is very much the opposite of an amazing experience like having meditation turn into rolling flashbacks.

And yes, I think the media portrayal doesn't help much -- I find I'm often frustrated and muttering about getting the poor woman off her tailbone when watching childbirth scenes.

@WhyMrsRobinson

This is fine if this is how hypnotherapy/hypnobirthing is used.

The problem comes with the whole narrative about "pain free" or "natural" or "positive" birth which is usually weaved into the sales pitch. There's a whole generation of women out there who think that pain relief is a sign of weakness or that you don't care about your baby or that you're in some way a poor woman and its really toxic.

Hypnobirthing is only one element of this. There's all sorts of snake oil and spivvery out there but its a side-issue. The biggest problem is the assumption that its the role of a mother approaching labour and those who support her (nurses/midwives etc) to promote a labour without pain relief.

If hypnobirthing were offered as part of a broader package of approaches to making labour more comfortable I would be fine with it but more often than not its posited as an "alternative" to pain relief. Which is IMHO misleading and potentially dangerous.

@WhyMrsRobinson

Oh my gosh! Why is it either, or? Why not have both? The hypnotherapy ( and I stress from a qualified hypnotist and tailored to you rather than a group class, or a quick ‘ course’, )will be very useful as a means to relax in many situations - I found it very useful during the birth and I certainly wasn’t all about ‘ natural’ , I think that’s a load of twaddle. I still had gas and air, and yes, it hurt like billy o, and the annoying midwife kept saying,’well give you drugs in a minute’ , huh! Ive used it since to have second baby (11lb!) to fall asleep instantly for naps while baby slept, and more recently During Chemo. I find it a very effective way of relaxing and when you are relaxed and somehow let the pain flow through you it still hurts, of course, but the muscles are relaxed so it doesn’t hurt as much. Or that’s the theory ( I think) He also did a thing where the pain free time between contractions seemed like ages, and the time of the contractions went super quick. Amazing stuff. Also Of coures have drugs! Of course make the most of all the wonderful science stuff we have. And of course anything that helps you get through amazing experience is worth a try. I just get a bit irritated with outer society that always mentions childbirth and pain in the same breath, and always shows women screaming their heads off. Am wondering if these scenes are written by/ directed by men... Just, really, check who you are giving your money too.

The only real time in person birth I’ve been close to that’s not me was going into the labour ward for my first. I couldn’t see her but she was howling at the top of her lungs CUT ME OPEN!!!! JUST CUUUUUTTTTT MMMEEEE OOOPPPEEENNN NOWWWWW I didn’t get the chance to ask if she did hypnobirthing. I could have done with some listening to her, poor woman was not having a good time. So im not terribly surprised to see society thinks that

I think you should both be more openminded.

What works for some people doesn't work for others.

Your attitude toward her 'not coping well' by asking for an epidural is very telling - why should anyone be under an obligation to go without pain relief? Why is that 'doing well'? You don't get a medal for it.

And I say this as someone who had a vaginal birth with no painful relief (although I REPEATEDLY requested it and was told there was no anaesthetist available).

Why is it either, or? Why not have both?

Right, you would think they're not mutually exclusive? But the 'natural birth' movement really is exclusive - like Dara O'briain sketch about ther NCT class: 'Don't let those doctors near you!! With their knives!!"

I had one baby in Switzerland and they got it right. Pools, homeopathy, aromatherapy - go for it! Pain relief - absolutely! No judgement either way, whatever the woman giving birth wants.

Think I’d be off to Switzerland too!
The natural birth thing was going apace 16 and 14 years ago ( omg I’m old!) but it sounds as if it’s got even stronger now, so it must be ridiculously string. It was then.
I think women, once again, have it tough. You are creating a life ffs. Yes ‘women have been having babies in fields and carrying on gathering crops’ since the dawn of time. ( I was reassured) Doesn’t mean you have to do it now. It’s not like we do anything else like we did in the dawn of time.
If men were having babies they’d all be portrayed as Bruce Willis types being incredibly strong and maybe with a cheeky lopsided grin as they popped one out.
They’d certainly be whisked off to a spa, given ptsd counselling and a lot of drugs.
Am also fed up wit the utter relentlessness that manufactures scare new mums into buying more bloody snake oil. You have to have all sorts of crap, and you will go through great pain, and you will have to Do It Perfectly. I was terrified of this ridiculous contraption for sterilising bottles in the microwave. Cost a stupid amount for basically a plastic bowl you put water in and they made it sooo complicated to justify the price I expect, I was in tears. And then I find out Americans shove them in the dishwasher. And it’s fine. Grrr.
And The Day I Gave Baby a Normal Custard Cream At The Playgroup. 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱.
Hmm. Wonder why mums get pnd. Can it be all hormones?

Rant over! 🤪