For feeling disappointed with my midwife friend

[southernerer]

One of my closest friends is a seniority midwife, we discussed this weekend my plans to train as a hypnobirthing teacher to have more flexible working and an added income. Her response was very firmly what a load of hippy nonsense, I explained it has helped myself and other friends cope with birth and manage without epidurals, she had been shocked at her own pain levels during birth and had requested an epidural at 4cm. To be clear im all for whatever pain relief you want but she openly admits she didn't cope well during her birth so feel she should be more open minded to things they could help esp as she's planning her second soon.
Also when I mentioned having a third baby, and after an EMCS then ELCS, I'd like another ELCS she was very very pushy that I should have a VBAC.
In other areas she's very open and not rigid in her thinking, for example her 3yr old still breastfeeds and bed shares every night with her but I just feel angry that women in her care must come across this very unsupportive midwife if their choices don't fit with her opinions!

[quote southernerer]@DancingQueen85 1 in 10 births in the UK are now EMCS and 1 in 5 births in the UK are now csections (EMCS & ELCS), the techniques can be used to feel calmer in a stressful situation, as said before the sole purpose is not pain relief but coming out of it with a more positive birth experience so can be applied to sections as well and as those stats show will apply to a lot of women who sign up for hypnobirthing [/quote]
I doubt anyone who pays hundreds for a HB course is planning on having a c-section when they buy it. They will be purchasing it with the belief (at the time of purchase) they will be doing a Vaginal delivery. In that position I would be furious and demanding a refund if I discovered my teacher has no experience of a vaginal delivery (either as a patient or as someone supporting one).

As someone who did a hypnobirthing course I would be completely baffled if the instructor had chose an elective c section for her births. That’s absolutely nothing against people who choose a c section, I couldn’t care less how other peoples babies come out but it’s just seems at complete odds with the course I did. Maybe other courses are different.

In my experience, people who practise hypnobirthing feel guilted into not having medical pain relief during birth. They all want to be the story that found it amazing and put so much pressure on themselves to avoid epidurals.

This. You don't see men being persuaded into having hypnotherapy before they have kidney stones removed. Or indeed people with chronic low back pain.

I don't blame women for feeling they need it and doing whatever they can to make birth easier. But I hate this female machismo about doing it without pain relief and the fact that women can't see they're being sold a load of shite. And it makes me foam at the mouth that there's still this anti-science woo complex that conspires to make women feel that the pain they experience in childbirth is an indication that they are failing as women.

@southernerer
I've done a hypnobirthing course so I do know a bit about it. We were a group of 8 mums and no one was planning an elective csection. It was very focused on techniques for a natural labour. The teacher shared a lot of her own experience from her own labours which was one of the bits I found most useful.
If hypnobirthing techniques are so effective then I'm not sure why anyone would choose to have a csection.

“A more positive birth” is such a shitty way of putting it, it immediately suggests other ways are less positive.

Are you upset because your friend recommended a vbac instead of a ELC? I mean doesn't it get riskier the more C-sections you get? So really your care provider who has looked over your notes needs to help advise you of the risks based on you previous pregnancies and then you can choose which route to take unless you/ your baby are are at severe risk?

YANBU because she does not have access to your medical notes and should have just said oh okay that's great then continue with small talk.

I just feel angry that women in her care must come across this very unsupportive midwife if their choices don't fit with her opinions!

She wasn't talking to you in a professional capacity, so probably she'd phrase it differently with a client, if she comments on it at all.

But giving the client the evidence (or lack thereof) for anything they're considering, is arguably the ethical thing to do.

@Namechangedlady

I think you might struggle running a hypnobirthing business if you haven't had a vaginal birth. It's not about just teaching, people will want to hear about your personal experience. It will be hard to keep the customers.

I must admit, this is kind of what I was thinking. Did your friend push a VBAC for no reason, or was it in the context of the rest of the conversation, i.e. that she thought it would be valuable for you to experience one while hypnobirthing? I realize you may be having a second ELCS for health reasons, but many people are going to see the “elective” part of the “c-section” and think (perhaps unfairly) you’re not willing to even try practicing what you preach. I would just be prepared with how you’ll answer that (maybe the techniques helped you through Braxton-Hicks, or other types of early labor pain?). I saw your comment about the techniques being useful for stressful situations like an ELCS but that’s true of any yoga, deep breathing, meditation, etc - hypnobirthing not required.

Unrelated, I have to admit I’m not a fan of the entire thing. We don’t try to force people to “breathe away” the pain during any other experience in which parts of their body are being torn apart. I mean, you don’t see anyone using hypnobirth techniques instead of pain medication for a leg amputation. This may be the most painful thing some women will go through in their lives, we have the tools to make it less painful, and I feel the only reason we don’t do so is because pain management is incredibly misogynistic. If men gave birth, not only do I doubt hypnobirthing would ever have been invented, but we’d probably have even more varied and safer pain medicine available in labor by now instead of the same things we’ve had since the 1980s. (Caveat: I am biased, as I suffer from chronic pain, and a friend once thought her hypnobirthing CDs might help; I found visualizing rainbows when in screaming pain didn’t really cut it for me).

Given that she’s probably assisted at hundreds, if not thousands, of deliveries, I’d be inclined to trust her judgement.

@thepeopleversuswork Fucking hear hear.

@Monsterjam

“A more positive birth” is such a shitty way of putting it, it immediately suggests other ways are less positive.

I hate it. It's so judgemental. I hate all this stuff about natural birth with a passion. It's just another way to bully women into feeling shit about themselves.

Nothing against people who have done it. But why are we still judging women about the way they push a baby out? Its fucking medieval.

Yabu, she didnt tell you that in her role as a midwife, she told you out of office. Dont tell me you hold all the same values as your office? For all you know she may encourage hypnobirthibg officially. She probably tells her patients about safe sleep and advises on formula when parents ask.

I thing youre being outrageous to assume he is anythingother than a supportive midwife. Shes allowed her own views.

Maybe she could have walked a more lip service supportive friend line but thats nothing to do with her job.

Her opinion, as a professional who has assisted hundrends of births, is worth something and valid. Maube she has seen loads of women come in convinced theu can breathe a baby out and then feel shit when it doesnt go to plan when they were so invested in it.

The two parts of the conversation were separate so it's wasn't have a VBAC but you couldn't hypnobirthing your way through it if you did. I was advised by the surgeon when he was stitching me up that due to scar tissue if I wanted another I would have to have another section in case of uterine rupture. Obviously at that point I wasn't thinking about a 3rd with the second being only minutes old
I do take everyone's points about never having a vaginal delivery, there's not much I can change about that now and would want to be honest with anyone I was working with, but my first section came after 3 days of failed induction where I definitely did use the techniques once they put the syntocinon drip in!!

@Monsterjam

“A more positive birth” is such a shitty way of putting it, it immediately suggests other ways are less positive.

Doesn't it just! For interest I had no pain relief for my labour because DS came so bloody quickly, it was about as far removed from a positive birthing experience as you could get.

I went into it wanting all the drugs they could give me exactly as I would have done for anything else that was as difficult. In my opinion pain relief is not the enemy, women pretending others should breath through it and be martyrs are.

I should point out I told her what the surgeon said about another section after she'd said have a VBAC she wasn't trying to push it after being given that info the subject just moved on in our conversation onto funny conversations we've heard surgeons have in theatre which could be a while new thread

Interesting that you want to coach women to do something you don’t want to do yourself.

I went on a hypnobirthing course that was run by a midwife and it was excellent, mostly because she had so much first hand experience in childbirth.

I admit im a bit sick of the 'women supporting women' narrative but would you say as "midwife HE should support women"?

Shes not an unsupportive midwife. Perhaps an unsupportive friend, but if that is hwr opinion and a view is based on her wide experience why cant you take it on the chin.

Supporting you isnt just telling you everything is a good idea. Its giving an honest opinion when asked.

It is a load of hippy nonsense, she's right.

@GreenCrayon I would view a positive birth as it going the way you envisioned it would and if it didn't that you felt consulted in any decisions made and not fearful/out of control. If that means pain relief then I don't think hypnobirthing should be an alternative but a coping mechanism to work alongside your chosen pain relief

As a midwife she's probably been taught to be focused on the medical side of things. I have to say that any hypnobirthing or tens machine stuff that I tried went out the window once labour got into full swing.....but each to their own, I'm sure it helps some people!!

If that means pain relief then I don't think hypnobirthing should be an alternative but a coping mechanism to work alongside your chosen pain relief

But that's not what most hypno birthing classes are preaching. The ones around here at least are very much focused on breathing the baby out and limiting intervention and I doubt they are unique in that train of thought.

@PanamaPattie

YABU to being friends with a midwife to expect her to agree with you.

Wtf?

@GreenCrayon

If that means pain relief then I don't think hypnobirthing should be an alternative but a coping mechanism to work alongside your chosen pain relief

But that's not what most hypno birthing classes are preaching. The ones around here at least are very much focused on breathing the baby out and limiting intervention and I doubt they are unique in that train of thought.

This will be what you are taught. Teachers of hypnobirthing (outside of hospital / midwives) are very pushy to the 'natural way'.

If you don't think like that, you will struggle to teach concepts that are against your own belief principles.