For feeling disappointed with my midwife friend

[southernerer]

One of my closest friends is a seniority midwife, we discussed this weekend my plans to train as a hypnobirthing teacher to have more flexible working and an added income. Her response was very firmly what a load of hippy nonsense, I explained it has helped myself and other friends cope with birth and manage without epidurals, she had been shocked at her own pain levels during birth and had requested an epidural at 4cm. To be clear im all for whatever pain relief you want but she openly admits she didn't cope well during her birth so feel she should be more open minded to things they could help esp as she's planning her second soon.
Also when I mentioned having a third baby, and after an EMCS then ELCS, I'd like another ELCS she was very very pushy that I should have a VBAC.
In other areas she's very open and not rigid in her thinking, for example her 3yr old still breastfeeds and bed shares every night with her but I just feel angry that women in her care must come across this very unsupportive midwife if their choices don't fit with her opinions!

YABU

Your relationship with your friend is just that - a friend. She is free to express her opinions freely to you as a friend. I would imagine she will be much more 'open' with her clients and will tread a more diplomatic path between her professional experience and a client's wishes.

Tell her to jog on. VBAC has far more risks to life than elcs.

I think if she, as a midwife, did a hypnobirthing course then she could probably add some value for her customers in that she could explain what to do if things didn’t go to plan. I wouldn’t pay for a hypnobirthing course from some random like you.

Yes agreed I take the point she was talking to me in the capacity of a friend not a patient so perhaps I should take that into account

She's entitled to her opinion. You're equally entitled to yours. Agree to differ...

This is one of my irritating things. First time mums or mum who have 2 children etc think they come birth masters and know all the answers. I have 2 on Facebook. One who is a first time mum but has none set up her own hypnobirthing page 2 months after the baby and another first time mum who has a Instagram page preaching about healthy eating in pregnancy and now thinks she's a top pregnancy chef. They've had one child each and think they know all the answers and anyone else's opinions are irrelevant.

Do what you want to do but don't preach and think your friend is in the wrong because she has a difference of opinion. And seen more births than you ever will.

I work in the NHS in maternity improvement and I would be shocked by that attitude too. It's a real shame when maternity staff are closed minded like that to things that are known to be of benefit to women. Her personal attitude will without doubt flavour her professional attitude, and I would find it concerning.

YANBU OP.

I think you might struggle running a hypnobirthing business if you haven't had a vaginal birth. It's not about just teaching, people will want to hear about your personal experience. It will be hard to keep the customers.

The way a midwife cares for the women giving birth and the way a friend talks to another friend about alternative pain relief are two different things though.

Also, it wasn't a midwife that took hundreds of quid off me for a two day hypno and yoga birthing weekend, then ignored the birth of my baby and didn't ask me back into class to show him off like everyone else when I 'failed' by having a crash section...

Noyoubekind...how many hundreds did you part with?

You did not fail. She failed you both.

@NoYOUbekind

The way a midwife cares for the women giving birth and the way a friend talks to another friend about alternative pain relief are two different things though.

Also, it wasn't a midwife that took hundreds of quid off me for a two day hypno and yoga birthing weekend, then ignored the birth of my baby and didn't ask me back into class to show him off like everyone else when I 'failed' by having a crash section...

That is awful, I'm so sorry you were treated that way. Congratulations on the birth of your gorgeous little baby.

PP did she say you'd failed?

Midwives have to work to NICE guidelines and implement evidence based practice. This involves critical appraisal of the peer-reviewed literature that supports (or not) different interventions. I'm not sure that hypnobirthing meets the criteria and standards that your midwife friend has to work to. Knowing a few people who have had a good experience of hypnobirthing is not the same as having an evidence base to support using it routinely in an NHS setting.
Having said that, if hypnobirthing is harmless you might expect a good friend to explain their perspective to you and indulge you a little bit, rather than calling it hippy nonsense.

I knew a mw who did hypnobirthing so I doubt it fails any standards ascribed by NICE.

YABU to being friends with a midwife to expect her to agree with you.

Dancingqueen85... what a nasty comment!

@DingDongThongs
What's nasty about it. As others have said, you'd expect a hypnobirthing teacher to practice what they preach.

@DingDongThongs but @DancingQueen85 does have a point...I don't doubt OP's ability to relay Hypnobirthing techniques, but it doesn't seem a natural pairing of experience and expertise

YABU I think it's fine for your midwife friend to have a different opinion, and i imagine she's probably seen hundreds of women come in and say they don't want any pain relief they're doing hypnobirthing to then beginning for an epidural because it is too much. Also it seems a bit odd you mentioning how she used to mock women screaming in pain after people disagree with you and it wasn't in your original argument. It's as if you want us to read that and then say oh no actually you're right

@DancingQueen85 1 in 10 births in the UK are now EMCS and 1 in 5 births in the UK are now csections (EMCS & ELCS), the techniques can be used to feel calmer in a stressful situation, as said before the sole purpose is not pain relief but coming out of it with a more positive birth experience so can be applied to sections as well and as those stats show will apply to a lot of women who sign up for hypnobirthing

So prior to having her own children she would ‘mock’ (OPs own words) women who couldn’t cope with the pain and wanted epidurals, seeing it as a sign of weakness. Then when she actually experienced childbirth herself ended up requesting and having an epidural for the pain. And now she dismisses hypnobirthing techniques as a load of rubbish.

Sounds like she has some more personal issues with her own birth experiences and how she views the women in her care- eg saw herself as somehow ‘superior’ and looked down on women who got epidurals (despite never having experienced labour!) and now has to be down on women who try other means of pain relief because she ended up choosing an epidural.

I agree with your friend. Not on hypnobirth as such but in women paying a lot of money to a ‘teacher’ who has done a course over a few days and has zero experience of labour and delivery. Some hospitals offer an nhs hypnobirth course for a small course and this is far more appropriate as it’s combined with medical knowledge and first hand experience.
Mums who want to hypnobirth can do this instinctively with focus and breath- it doesn’t need to be labelled or be ‘thing’

@LizJamIsFab

Yabu this midwife is allowed opinions that don’t match yours. She’s not speaking to you in a professional capacity

that is EXACTLY what I was going to say

Sounds like hypnobirthing is going the same way as yoga - it’s too easy to become a teacher.