For feeling disappointed with my midwife friend

[southernerer]

One of my closest friends is a seniority midwife, we discussed this weekend my plans to train as a hypnobirthing teacher to have more flexible working and an added income. Her response was very firmly what a load of hippy nonsense, I explained it has helped myself and other friends cope with birth and manage without epidurals, she had been shocked at her own pain levels during birth and had requested an epidural at 4cm. To be clear im all for whatever pain relief you want but she openly admits she didn't cope well during her birth so feel she should be more open minded to things they could help esp as she's planning her second soon.
Also when I mentioned having a third baby, and after an EMCS then ELCS, I'd like another ELCS she was very very pushy that I should have a VBAC.
In other areas she's very open and not rigid in her thinking, for example her 3yr old still breastfeeds and bed shares every night with her but I just feel angry that women in her care must come across this very unsupportive midwife if their choices don't fit with her opinions!

I must admit, when hyponobirthing was suggested to me, I also thought “what a load of hippy nonsense!” I didn’t do it nor any classes of any form whatsoever.

I was induced, had an epidural and baby was out in 4 pushes. He was my first!

[quote southernerer]@GreenCrayon some people prefer a more practical in person learning experience than reading and find they retain information better that way plus it would offer the option to ask questions I suppose that may not be covered in the book that have. I haven't mentioned a company that I'm training through so not sure what you mean there? Maybe confused with a previous posters comment [/quote]
Well yes obviously some people prefer an in person class but I'm still unsure why you think you are someone they would value leading that class? What makes you stand out experience wise as someone they would trust the advice of compared to any other mum who has had a child?

Also I wasn't confused by another posters comment. I assume this training would be through a company and you would run classes on their behalf? I was wondering how that would work if the course content was all about being natural as the ones near me were. Would you be comfortable leading that class when you also say you think it's fine for women to have drugs?

@DrJPuddleDuck

I wonder if she feels like your stepping on her toes a little bit? (Birthing expertise is her thing!)

Why would she? Why would a qualified and experienced midwife think that a hypno-birthing loon with a "qualification" you can print off the internet was in anyway stepping on her toes? They're not even in the same ballpark.

Absolutely tickled by a hypno-birthing advocate not even entertaining the idea of a vaginal birth for any of her own DC, electing for a CS for Nos. 2 and 3.

I think an open mind is always good in any professional job, so she was perhaps a bit dismissive. Her experience of many actual births as a trained midwife may well dampen her enthusiasm.

Not really the same, but I'm a fully qualified working florist, I have done many weddings and funeral flowers. I have had a lot of last minute panic calls from people who assured me their auntie would be able to do a bang up job of their event. Guess what? Now imagine that in a delivery suite when it's all going to shit.

What you're proposing isn't in itself a bad idea. It may help some women, which would be great. But your 4cm attitude is quite naive, and unless you also have an open mind might hinder as much as it helps.

I'm sorry OP, I wouldn't have much confidence in someone teaching the whole breathe the pain away but won't do it themselves when they give birth. It's not much of an advert is it?

Good luck though, hope it's satisfying.

I think an open mind is always good in any professional job, so she was perhaps a bit dismissive

Why? What does that even mean? Should a dr be open minded about crystal healing, or the power of prayer? Should a lawyer be openminded about a freeman on the land defence? Should a teacher be open minded about unschooling?

I'd be more disappointed with the whole judging women who used pain medication she previously didn't approve of than thinking hypnobirth is woo hippy nonsense. I've never had an epidural - anything spinal is high risk with my medical conditions so when I had a retained placenta, I was given a general - but I wouldn't feel supported by either someone who looks down on women who get upset during labour or someone who thinks the right response and the way to a more positive birth after a rough birth is through self-hypnosis.

As pp said, some professionals can keep their personal opinions to themselves and separate it from their patients, so I wouldn't automatically think she's unsupportive when working There are those who very much can't do that and it can badly effect the care they give. We can't really know in this case.

Her planning her second after what sounds like a rough first doesn't mean she wants a more natural experience. Some do, some don't. Some like me get through with heating pads, biting things, and pressing the top of my head into firm padded surfaces (mattresses, sides of bed, upholstered chairs, my spouse's stomach) to stay calm, birthing is hard and women have found a variety of ways to deal with that.

I never met a British trained midwife who was supportive of ELCS. They either refused to discuss it, were very condescending or tried to bullshit by mixing the stats including EMCS, which are far far more dangerous.

The midwife team I met in the hospital on the other hand were fantastic, supportive and of the view that it is a woman's right to choose, not theirs. Most of these were not trained in the UK.

I don't know why but in the UK we seem to treat pregnant women as if they're stupid, unable to make decisions about their own body and should be forced to have the most painful birth possible "because it's NATURAL"

No thanks. We don't cut people's legs off any more without anaesthesia because we've developed improved methods. Why is childbirth any different?

Hello, had hypno birthing, but it was six solo sessions with a qualified hypnotherapist.he was able to take my specific fears and turn them into something positive. It was amazing, and I actually was relaxed enough not to notice I was 10 cm, and to enjoy all the wierd sensations. It was also very useful afterwards when she had to reach into me and get bits of placenta out ( sorry if that’s tmi!) they didn’t have time to give me drugs, but I was able to be lying on a beach while someone a long way away was doing things to my body. Amazing and I really recommend.
My hypnotist did say though that it’s a lot to do with it being tailored to your specific fears. This made sense and worked for me. I investigated a group hypnotherapy and wasn’t so impressed - it was all imagine a rose relaxing and opening, but a rose means nothing to me, and was a bit hippy dippy. I would recommend proper training as a hypnotherapist, it’s fascinating and will offer , I imagine, lots more opportunity.

Don't be a silly billy @sneezypants, you know very well what I mean. In fact I went on to explain it further.

OP you mentioned the ECS and ECS rates up thread - I am interested in how you think hypnobirthing would change them ?

are you suggesting I would have avoided my 2 sections if I had been calmer and more focused?

I should imagine that she was being a bit defensive given that you are looking to set up a business that overlaps the area that she works in, having trained for years and gained years worth of experience. Perhaps she thought that you were trying to tell her that you knew best re hypnobirthing and, by default, giving birth generally. In her mind, by you wishing to set up a business (presumably without experience or the amount of experience) she might feel that you are undervaluing her role. I also think that hypnobirthing only really works for some people. There are too many variables at play to evaluate the extent of its usefulness.

Hmmm. To be completely honest I wouldn't choose a hypnobirthing teacher that hadn't actually given birth naturally themselves.

I do agree with @whymrsrobinson

I had specific hypnotherapy to help calm me prior to giving birth. It was helpful, but didn't help the fact that my babies were both back to front, had a massive head, got stuck and resulted in an ECS. I was in more pain and endured a very long labour than had they been lying in the right place. I think that hypnotherapy has its place, but not convinced that a bit of chanting/whale music with aromatherapy oils would have cut it for me (and yes, I did indeed attend a couple of sessions of a hypnobirthing class which was exactly that).

@ghostyslovesheets not expecting to change the stats and nope I'm not saying that don't know why you thought that as I've said nothing of the sort. My point was that the techniques can also be used to help try to keep yourself calm during a stressful experience of sections not just vaginal births and that this would apply to 10% of births

I lived hypnoborthing, I did it with one of my four, who was 9.15lbs and my biggest and easiest child! I have given birth at three different hospitals across the UK with a myriad of different midwives and found some brilliant and some appalling but all very much sure they knew the best way. I guess it's like anything and prople get set in their ways.

I spent £300 on a 2 days hypnobirthing class for my partner and I before we had our first baby. As a new mum I had no idea what to expect and heard so many horror stories about birth that I was terrified. Mum had ELCS and EMCS and sister 2 EMCS so was particularly concerned.

Whilst the midwife who ran the session was lovely I can say as soon as the contractions intensified it all went out the window, the pain was so intense following induction I needed an epidural at “only” 3cm after soldiering on with gas & air in the bath.

Not being able to emulate the amazing women breathing through the pain did really make me feel like a failure despite managing a vaginal delivery with the epidural. I’m a yoga teacher so do understand the value of breathing but not to manage pain.

I also felt actively discouraged during hypnobirth classes for asking for any type of pain relief. The risks were emphasised so much and talk of crossing the placenta to the baby was overly emphasised in my opinion.

May be something to bear in mind if you did decide to train but sounds like you’re a rational and intelligent woman so sure you’d be an asset to any training program.

I’m a midwife and I have opinions on lots of things around birth that I would happily share with friends but not with the women I care for. I’m a professional and I understand my role is to give women evidence-based information and support them in their choices. Most people have separate work and personal personas.

Haha. I must admit I fell for some of the hypnoborthing crap. Some of the advice in the original book is downright dangerous (such as avoiding induction after PROM, I found out the hard way). Sure the breathing techniques are great and reading the book chilled me out during the pregnancy but the truth is it’s all a big fat lie. When you get to a certain stage in a vaginal birth it fucking kills no matter how much you visualise and breath. It’s one of those things that I doubt anyone shows much interest in once they’ve given birth and realised the reality.

I'll take the Midwives every time..

@sneezypants not point of thread but 'Should a teacher be open minded about unschooling?' I've found loads of teachers are open minded about this!

If hypnobirthing helps some women feel in control, all power to them. However, like many other PPs, I think there is often a horrible subtext to a lot of it that anything other than 'natural' is wrong and that in order for it to be a 'real' birth, women have to suffer (feels almost biblical). Although, even that said, there is another layer to this as wasn't part of going back to more 'natural', midwife-led births, meant to be empowering for women because it was a move away from the more medical model of having women labouring on their backs, heavily drugged and forceps used even in relatively straightforward births which was seen as quicker and easier for the (mostly male) doctors?

Is this hypnobirthing teaching thing the new life coach?

@Ihatefish

Having ended up with PTSD from a traumatic birth that was made 100 times worse by the attitude of midwives to me, you are not unreasonable, in fact speaking with others the attitude of midwives seems to play a large part in making matters worse. So your friend’s attitude of my way or the highway sounds depressingly common. Yes there are great midwives but they appear in a minority. And yes that attitude can affect vulnerable women for years.

My thoughts entirely. Midwives ugh

Non-intervention natural childbirth in many parts of the world often results in either one or both of the protagonists ending up dead. So it's not really all it's cracked up to be, is it?

Put your faith in the medical professionals, that's what I say.