To be upset what WFH has done to DH

[cappuccinoandcats]

All staff in the office where DH works are clearing their desks one morning this week. The office is going to be hotdesking and I'm praying he goes to the office for at least two days a week.
He's making all sorts of excuses. Type 2 diabetes, stairs due his bad knees etc. I'm not buying these excuses. He is currently renovating and removing plaster at the weekends, so he CAN do stairs and carry heavy loads !
He doesn't want to work with unvaccinated. He's had both jabs and I've explained the risk is miniscule.
I just want him out of the house sometime during the working week. AIBU

You say "I want my living room back." It's his living room too, and his home. Why does he have to get out of it several days a week so you and your son have more space? If you don't want to be there with him I think it's on you to get out of the house. No one should feel they aren't welcome in their home.

I was a SAHM for 19 years and I too loved having the house to myself when DP was at work and the kids at school. But I would never have said that to any of them.

If he is determined not to go back you may want to consider moving to a home where there is space for a home office. And in the meantime, noise canceling headphones are a must.

It’s his home, not his office. Is this really so hard for people to understand?

Does he work with lots of unvaccinated people then? Perhaps he is genuinely worried they will take other risks since they cannot be bothered to have a vaccine?

Perhaps he is more anxious than you think. People on here have shown all sorts of anxieties and because he is a man I see that some take the mick out of him rather than perhaps some sympathy that may be extended to a woman that might be anxious?

It’s his home, not his office. Is this really so hard for people to understand?

So if he commandeered the living room for hours every day to watch the football and nagged at everyone to be quiet and let him do undisturbed, that would be ok, but it's not ok if what he's doing earns money?

It's not like we are talking about a factory production line in the sitting room here.

I'd guess he is:

Writing reports
Sending emails
Having phone calls
Reading documents

All of those are things the 15 year old could also be doing to revise for their GCSEs, they are also things the OP could be doing recreationally.

I think a lot of people on here would really struggle living with a self employed person who regularly works at home.

I do think it sounds like OPs set up isnt working and her DH needs to ensure OP gets some use of the shared spaces by using an office space some of the time. But I dont think its reasonable for OP to expect him out of the house from 9 to 5 every single day just so she can have sole use of the living room all the time.

DH and I have worked from home sporadically for years.
To make it work for everyone you have to have a proper work space that doesn’t bother others. You have to accept that this is a home for a family, not somewhere that family tiptoe around while one person (usually a man) works.

[quote MaMelon]@Thewarrenerswife - there’s nothing in the OPs posts that suggest this is the case.

There are a lot of people who have worked very successfully from home over the last 15 months (I include myself in that), and if their employers are sensible they’ll recognise the benefits of wfh and allow this to continue in a flexible way for those roles for those who want it. Good employers move forward with the times.[/quote]
There is indication of excuse making, and if the employer is making provision for staff to return, he will be feeding his excuses to his employee also.

It’s not about employers moving with the times, it’s about what works for each situation. Our HR advisor, from a huge agency, said the most common issue they are supporting employers with, by far over lockdown, is getting a full days work out of WFH employees. Now it’s getting employees back in the office.

If you’re managing to successfully work from home, that’s great, though it’s for the employer to decide if that’s the case, not the employee.

@DifferentHair

Ffs I'm shocked at how many people have allowed their partner to take over kitchen tables and living areas this whole time.

A small desk in the bedroom, with the door shut. Or the office.

Taking over the house is not a long term solution.

You obviously have more space than a lot of us! I had to 'take over' the living room when I started working from home last March, I have no other option other than leave my job!

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

It’s his home, not his office. Is this really so hard for people to understand?

So if he commandeered the living room for hours every day to watch the football and nagged at everyone to be quiet and let him do undisturbed, that would be ok, but it's not ok if what he's doing earns money?

It's not like we are talking about a factory production line in the sitting room here.

I'd guess he is:

Writing reports
Sending emails
Having phone calls
Reading documents

All of those are things the 15 year old could also be doing to revise for their GCSEs, they are also things the OP could be doing recreationally.

I think a lot of people on here would really struggle living with a self employed person who regularly works at home.

I do think it sounds like OPs set up isnt working and her DH needs to ensure OP gets some use of the shared spaces by using an office space some of the time. But I dont think its reasonable for OP to expect him out of the house from 9 to 5 every single day just so she can have sole use of the living room all the time.

Yes- if he set up a drum kit and played several hours a day is that cool? Because it’s his home (not his office, whcih is open). Could he get a spa and invite people over for drinks and hot tubbing in the living room 5 nights a week? Because it’s his home? Could he take up world of Warcraft and coopt 80# of the floor space for elaborate models? Because it’s his home? (Not his office which is open) There are obviously lines that are unreasonable to cross. Choosing to use it as a workspace full time is unfair on his family.

Yes. It’s not about moving with the times, it’s about accepting that what we accepted during lockdown for the greater good might not be how best to run our businesses going forward.
Or indeed how we want to run them.
As an employer I want my employees to be happy but that’s not my only priority of course. What I want is just as important.

It’s absolutely moving with the times. I’m currently looking at what worked well in my department and what can continue to work well going forward - and wfh for some roles will absolutely continue. Employers that don’t embrace new technology and flexible working will find themselves lagging behind more progressive employers.

Oh - and I deal with poor performance from people wfh in the same way as I do if they’re in the office.

@khakiandcoral

He isn't the only one OP our HR is battling to get workers back.People feel they have proven that they can do their job from home and just dont want to come back.

The current government advice is still to WFH anyway.

Where as you could just pop in the next office to confirm something you now have to wait for a while to some one to finish what they are doing, read your email, then get back to you and this is why WFH is so much more efficient for some of us...

Efficient for you but not the whole team. If you want to work as a free lancer - do that. One person being hard to contact impacts the flow of other work when there is cross departments working on a case and time is an issue.

I really do feel that people have become so insular and thinking of what benefits them only rather than remembering they are actually employed by some one and part of a team.

You might think its working for you but its tough shit if your employer doesn't.

@HelloMissus

DH and I have worked from home sporadically for years. To make it work for everyone you have to have a proper work space that doesn’t bother others. You have to accept that this is a home for a family, not somewhere that family tiptoe around while one person (usually a man) works.

Yes. I fully agree with that.

One of the very big issues here is the fact people were forced to wfh for the last 15 months.
That means workers had to find a way to make it work and that usually also meant that other people in the family had to bend backwards for that to happen. See the numerous stories where you have a child suddenly appearing in zoom calls etc… just to be whisked away by (usually) the mother.
What has NOT being visible is all the efforts other family members had to do to keep quiet, careful about what activities they are doing etc… all that because someone (yes usually a man) was working/on a call.

But now that 15 months on things are still going, there is this clamour of ‘But this has worked for the last 15 months. It was fantastic! Why would want to change it?’ Whilst forgetting that the other members if the household have NEVER been asked if that was ok for them, if they had to make a lot of concession. Or for that matter, if that actually works well for the company

The reality is that wfh works well when you have a dedicated area to work. A room separated from the rest of the household so that other people can carry in with their day as they please.
Deciding that because it works for you wo a thought for others is selfish.
Deciding that your needs are greater because you work and the others don’t is usually deeply sexist. Because let’s be honest, just like with the OP, that’s usually women who get the brunt of those new arrangements. Many studies have shown we have gone 20 years regarding sex equality. It’s not just about the situation at work where we have regressed. It’s also the feeling of entitlement.

@KeepingTrack I agree with you. WFH hasn't worked for me at all. I've done my job but it cannot work long term. DH is semi retired and was unable to work at all as when he does he's a handyman going into peoples' houses so he's been there all the time. At no point have I ever made him tiptoe around me, it's his home and not my office. However he felt he had to keep out of the way.

I've made sure that work are aware that it's not possible for me to work like that and I'm now going into the office as much as possible and have requested a full time return eventually. If I can't go back full time I will be leaving. I can't live like this and I certainly don't expect DH to.

@MaMelon

It’s absolutely moving with the times. I’m currently looking at what worked well in my department and what can continue to work well going forward - and wfh for some roles will absolutely continue. Employers that don’t embrace new technology and flexible working will find themselves lagging behind more progressive employers.

For some roles is the key point here, and I never said no one should work from home.

However, people here talking as if they should be able to choose what suits them, what they deem best. It’s ultimately for the employer to decide what works for their business. As an employer myself, I’m a bit sick of the attitude of some employees, and have already let two go. Not because of their inability to do their job, but their inability to see the bigger picture in terms of their team mates and the business as a whole. They’re both still unemployed, so can spend as much time as they like at home now.

@lavenderandwisteria

It’s his home, not his office. Is this really so hard for people to understand?

Hence the name working FROM HOME, what's so hard to understand?

It's not a new concept.

Deciding that your needs are greater because you work and the others don’t is usually deeply sexist. Because let’s be honest, just like with the OP, that’s usually women who get the brunt of those new arrangements.

True, but I have never heard a MAN complaining they needed the house to be empty so they could get on with housework.

I could understand you want the house to yourself (even if you are taking the piss, it's a shared house and it's even worst when it's the other partner who is solely responsible for all the finance!),
but wanting to kick people out to get on with your dusting or mopping...

honestly, it's pathetic.

However, people here talking as if they should be able to choose what suits them, what they deem best. It’s ultimately for the employer to decide what works for their business. As an employer myself, I’m a bit sick of the attitude of some employees, and have already let two go. Not because of their inability to do their job, but their inability to see the bigger picture in terms of their team mates and the business as a whole.

Personally, I think this is a bit of short term view, I’m not an employer, but I do get involved in hiring from time to time, and retaining and nurturing the best talent in an organisation need take and give, what’s works best for business is keep the best talent, it’s okay saying to staff that MUST come into the office, but how is going to help you business when your best staff walk out the door and join your competition as they are offering better flexibility for working

Thewarrenerswife

You sacked two people because they couldn’t see the ‘bigger picture’ as opposed to their ability to do the job? How odd. Fortunately my organisation protects their employees and I manage my staff well, but I imagine it depends on the industry you’re working in. No-one has said that everyone should be able to choose what suits them best but good employers will work with their employees to identify which roles can be done from home and which can’t using clear metrics and role analysis applied consistently across the organisation.

@JustAnotherOldMan

However, people here talking as if they should be able to choose what suits them, what they deem best. It’s ultimately for the employer to decide what works for their business. As an employer myself, I’m a bit sick of the attitude of some employees, and have already let two go. Not because of their inability to do their job, but their inability to see the bigger picture in terms of their team mates and the business as a whole.

Personally, I think this is a bit of short term view, I’m not an employer, but I do get involved in hiring from time to time, and retaining and nurturing the best talent in an organisation need take and give, what’s works best for business is keep the best talent, it’s okay saying to staff that MUST come into the office, but how is going to help you business when your best staff walk out the door and join your competition as they are offering better flexibility for working

The best staff don’t walk out of the door, because the best staff aren’t the ones arguing the virtues of WFH.

I do have staff who WFH, but if I wasn’t capable of determining who and which roles were suited to that, I wouldn’t be an employer.

Really? My best staff are absolutely arguing for wfh because they know - and I know- they can do it and do it well. They - and I - know that they will look elsewhere for more progressive and flexible organisations if I dig my heels in just because I can.

@MaMelon

Thewarrenerswife

You sacked two people because they couldn’t see the ‘bigger picture’ as opposed to their ability to do the job? How odd. Fortunately my organisation protects their employees and I manage my staff well, but I imagine it depends on the industry you’re working in. No-one has said that everyone should be able to choose what suits them best but good employers will work with their employees to identify which roles can be done from home and which can’t using clear metrics and role analysis applied consistently across the organisation.

Lots of people have the ability to just do a job, lots of people think businesses will struggle if they leave, because they’re SO good at doing their job. I seek employees with more about them than that. So yes, I sacked two employees because of their attitude during COVID, and returning to work.

How does your business ‘protect employees’? over other businesses? Employment law is the same for everyone. And how would you have a clue about how a business should decide who should be able to WFH and who shouldn’t? I’m guessing by ‘organisation’ you mean you work for some public funded machine like the NHS that doesn’t have to actually make money to survive.

Employment law does apply equally, which exactly highlights that there are good employers and bad employers. Most people I know are settling into a hybrid model and would walk if they were no longer trusted to wfh. Trust me, they would find work elsewhere, it’s their current employers who would be struggling. But most employers seem to get this.

Exactly timeisnotaline

And yes, Thewarrenerswife, I work for a public funded body - I'm very proud of the work I do, and listening to you talk so disparagingly about your staff quite grim. You seem almost gleeful that they're still unemployed and able to spend as much time at home as they like. My DH works in the private sector in a very competitive environment, as do many of my friends and family, but in far more progressive and professional environments than your's sounds . My organisation protects staff from managers who simply decide they don't like their staff's attitude from being sacked. What do you do that enables you to sack your staff so readily?

@khakiandcoral

Deciding that your needs are greater because you work and the others don’t is usually deeply sexist. Because let’s be honest, just like with the OP, that’s usually women who get the brunt of those new arrangements.

True, but I have never heard a MAN complaining they needed the house to be empty so they could get on with housework.

I could understand you want the house to yourself (even if you are taking the piss, it's a shared house and it's even worst when it's the other partner who is solely responsible for all the finance!),
but wanting to kick people out to get on with your dusting or mopping...

honestly, it's pathetic.

But that’s not people complaining that they need the house empty to do housework. It’s about the fact you are restricted in what to do

Eg can’t push the hoover around because too noisy
Can’t have a friend around because disturbing
Can’t have the music on whilst cleaning
Actually can’t have cleaner in either

Amd they can’t do that because the wfh person (usually a man) doesn’t want to be disturbed.
Now of course, you can do all that the weekend. But are the wfh people/men then also happy to take on 50% of that load that hasn’t been done during the week because they were there?
Are they happy to give time off to the SAHP so they can see friends?

My experience is that said wfh person isn’t happy to then have to adapt too at the fact their weekends suddenly look different. They have to be more involved in childcare because the DW is off with friends or at the gym etc…
They aren’t happy to push said hoover around.
They still want everything to be the same AND also have all the advantages of wfh.

What is apathetic is the total refusal to see situations from another pov.

Yes of course