S@“t has hit the fan. What would you do?

[Whotsithitthefan]

NC as outing. Long time poster.

I can’t sleep. DH had left. Sleeping in the car somewhere I think. DM here staying. DC being bullied at school and so is being a nightmare at home. Once he’s talked about what’s going on he’s fine but while he’s holding it all in, quite frankly, he’s a grumpy thug.

DH approach is long lectures. Reminding DC of past difficult behaviour. Criticising. Telling off. He takes it very personally when DC insults him or is rude to him. Won’t let it go.

I tend to try and listen first as there is always a context and then discuss the difficult behaviour once things are calm and I think DC can reflect.

Tonight DC was acting up. I stayed out of it as DH doesn’t like me taking over and finds it undermining if I offer a different approach. He wants me to back him up but I can’t because I feel like DC would then feel the whole world was against him/her and I don’t want to join in the critical lecture and when I do try and back DH up things just escalate anyway.

So I focused tonight on clearing up and left DH and DC to it. Meanwhile I don’t realise that DM is finding the way DH is talking to DC unbearable. She had told me earlier and I had a bit of a moan as I’m finding it hard.

I then hear really raised voices. DM shouting at DH that he is abusing DC with his criticism and domineering. She’s very upset. He’s really angry with her. DC joining in.

I stood between them and just repeated ‘time out’ over and over. DH kept going and going. When I kept saying time out DC would join in and told DH he’s a psycho. DH finally left and I managed to get DC calm and to sleep.

I’m in bed but can’t sleep as I can see it from all angles and have no clue what to do.

DC ‘full up’ emotionally and feeling particularly got at by DH. Deliberately pushes him because he knows he loses the plot and is testing him. The behaviours need addressing but also DC is a child and is overwhelmed at the moment.

DH is feeling blamed by me and unsupported by me. Feels like I get in the way of their relationship and turn DC against him because I’ll stick up for DC if I feel DH is out of order. I have been trying to stay out of it but it’s hard when it’s a child getting it in the neck. Tonight I stayed out of it apart from ‘time out’ when it was getting too heated. DH is sleeping in his car somewhere refusing to ever talk to my DM ever again. Wants us out of the house tomorrow at one point so he can change for work. Telling me I’m toxic and causing him MH issues (I can be quite critical to be fair) but I feel he’s the one whose being toxic to DC who should be the priority.

DM now in bits because she thinks she’s ‘ruined my life’.

Have today tried to be calm and have supported both DC and DM with their stuff. Feeling too cross with DH to support him much but am worried about him.

Feel like no one is supporting me. I hold the emotional stuff for them all but what about me? AIBU to wish there was someone in my life that was calm and steady to ‘hold’ things together.

How do I handle things tomorrow? I’ll have to do the school run so ‘brave face’ on. Then I know DM will be distraught. God knows if DH will get in touch.

Just needed to get this out and hope someone is awake and had some advice. I need to get some sleep.

@Whotsithitthefan
Your post took me back a few years.
I had similar when my DS were small.

Right, somewhere along the line your role has become pacifier, peacemaker, smooth it all over and make it right person. First thing to learn: you are not responsible for the way other adults behave. You are responsible for your DCs, and your DS is obviously strung out at school (so priority - get the bullying sorted there), and the overflow from that is coming home with him.

Your DH has a different parenting style to you - my ex had a different style to me - he had a lot of traits your DH has. It didn't work. Prior to our divorce we did family therapy stuff - and therapist said similar about my DH and the way he was with the kids. Looking back DH and I should have agreed a rock solid compromise regarding parenting, but he was confrontational, went in all guns blazing, over-reacted, and I was left with the fallout. Even if his arguments were right, his approach was so awful (shouting, bullying) that the DCs forgot what they'd done wrong, and just felt threatened and intimidated. I then went in softly, softly, trying to pour oil on troubled waters. Then he was bad cop, I was good cop, he blamed me, told me get on with it as I knew all the bloody answers. Kids saw mum being bullied by him, and they lost respect for me for a while.

Anyway, you need to agree an approach that works between you, and stick to it. DCs need a united front. Both parents must be firm but kind at all times. That's it in a nutshell.

I don't think your mum should apologise for anything at all. Absolutely not. The dynamics won't change if she does, he'll just strop and leave and then make demands, like a spoilt kid. He is the adult here. That is crucial. He needs to model this. He needs to blame the behaviour, not the child.

I certainly wouldn't leave with my DM so that he can get changed. This request just shows have warped his thinking is. He's a adult FFS. Who the hell is he to demand this and that happens and set out conditions.

So for today, sort bullying with school, top priority. Ignore DH's silly demands, and let him do what he wants for a few days while the dust settles. Tell DM that you appreciate that she was defending DC, but to leave it up to you from now on, because you're going to make some changes. Don't ask her to apologise. Stay in the house and crack on with your usual day. Be consistent. Don't pander to other people's emotions. They can deal with their own issues. They're adults. Your DH doesn't want to talk to your mum again? Fine. You are not the fixer here - let him do what he wants regarding that. Your mums upset - she'll get over that when she sees you being practical, calm and determined. Stay neutral. When the dust settles, sit down with DH and agree how you are going to co-parent equally, consistently and fairly. If he can't do that, then you'll have some serious thinking to do about the future. But for now, just focus on what you can fix (your DC and the bullying) and leave the other adults to sort out their own stuff.

I’m just wondering op, if you, your son, your mum and even your husband’s mum have negative opinions on your husband’s disciplinary methods, why does he still believe he is wrong and being undermined?
He needs to understand that general consensus is that he’s completely in the wrong.
Has he overruled you in the past so you’re not as confident in how you parent? He seems to be doing the ‘my way or the high way’ thing some of men do with their children. Never ends well.

I also agree with others that your mum should not apologise.

Op, I have been the dc in this exact situation.

My dad hated my grandmother, because she actually stood up for me. I remained close to her until the day she died and mourned her as a mother.

I don’t talk to my ‘dear’ mother anymore. She stood by under the guise of ‘peacekeeping’ while her overgrown toddler of a husband vented all his frustrations on a child. I was 9 when he started giving me long lectures and robbing me of any self esteem and confidence I was managing to grow. She now cries to other family members and begs to see her dgc. She can fuck right off, she couldn’t protect me from emotional abuse, why would I trust her with my dc?

If I didn’t meet his lofty expectations, or ever failed to ask ‘how high’ when he told me to jump...it was my fault that he felt undermined, not in charge, not listened to.

My mother would just stand there, and only act all sympathetic when he was out of the room. She would plead with me to try not to upset him. Me! A fucking nine year old being in charge of a 40 year old mans feelings.

Of course your ds is acting out. He is a young child and he is being bullied at school, and far worse, at home.

In the nicest possible way op, wake the fuck up.

And sorry for the slightly incoherent ramble. This thread has just took me right back and I feel so sorry for your ds and dm.

She’s doing what a mother is supposed to. Why aren’t you?

I can’t believe your sense of right and wrong has become so twisted that you think your mother is the one who needs to apologise! I think the fact you are tiptoeing around to appease your husband’s bullying is really worrying tbh. Why are you married to a man who screams in the face of your mother and bullies your small child?

Your husband must feel really manly screaming at a small bullied boy. And he must feel so mature driving off to sleep in the car - which was meant to worry you and snap you back into line (but really how long is he going to live in the car?) And he is so perceptive in blaming you for his mental health problems. Then his family feelings knows no bounds because he is making you all get out of the house including your frail mother - the one he isn't going to speak to again - so that poor diddums can come and change his clothes. See, living in the car didn't turn out that great for him did it?

Your mother and his mother have both told you his behaviour is unacceptable. What on earth are you doing clearing up while your husband is behaving like a raving lunatic? I'd think he was lucky if he found his clothes in a bin bag on the front lawn.

So DC is being bullied at school……

….and when he lets out his big hurt emotions at home (probably badly as we humans often do) to the people he’s supposed to feel safest with, he gets bullied again by his DF.

Poor child. Stop letting this happen to him.

Why doesnt your DH take his critical, angry self down to the school and sort out the bully, rather than laying into your very young, victim son? If he doesnt then frankly you should. Your son is being let down by the adults around him - bullied at school then coming home to it as well.

Dear god, what have I just read?

Your husband is awful!! Just awful! His bullying towards your son, his shouting in your elderly mother's face and his ongoing manipulative behaviour towards you is appalling...and yet you are going to get your mum to apologise!! For standing up for an 8/9 year old??? Are you serious?

Just read back your posts...and then think clearly about the type of man you are married to! No 'good dad' routinely bullies their 9 year old in this way...they don't!

Your dm sounds great. H has done a number on you - as a pp said you are changing your behaviour because of him.

Is H interested in therapy or is he there because he is paying lipservice to you? Tbh it sounds as if he has some stuff to deal with too. Has he read any parenting books? Does he give a shit that ds is being bullied?

Did you talk about what kind of parents you wanted to be before you had dc? What did he say?

What on earth was your son doing to illicit long angry lectures from DH?
Knowing he is having a hard time at school, being bullied, is unhappy - what did he do that DH thought a lecture would fix?

Or does DH always do this to DS 'to keep him in order' or some reason. That would stem from DH's upbringing, that's where you need to be looking with teh counselling.

I have seen this dynamic in action and it’s horrible to watch and your Mum was right to step in.

Would below be a fair summary?

Your husband is a bully. You let him get away with bullying your DC. You are inconsistent in your parenting / DC behaviour is poor. New school - kids haven’t grown up with DC and therefore have no tolerance of DC behaviour - which you perceive as bullying. Your husband overcompensates for your permissive style by inappropriate parenting.

Is your husband abusive to you?

Your mother was brave, and right, in standing up for your DC against your bullying husband. She did what you need to do. Somehow you have been ground down here and believe that you need to tiptoe around him and ensure he is placated. He needs to stop this behaviour, it is at the root of so many of your problems. How can your DC learn how to handle bullying at school when home is no refuge and the bullying just continues?

Your DH is the one that needs to grovel and apologise. What on earth is he thinking? You know he is in the wrong, your mum knows he is in the wrong, his mum knows he is in the wrong and the counsellor knows he is in the wrong.

Find your anger with him. It sounds like he should leave for a bit until he can reflect on his behaviour.

Can you see if you can get referred into family therapy?
It can be helpful to be observed by outsiders who can unpick and assist with relationships. Obviously your dh would have to be on board

This! There is an obvious communication issues and disfunction in your family, and I suggest by leaning on professional help in diving into what's going on, what's no working, and developing new strategies going forward.

I would be very concerned if my child was being bullied at school does not then feel safe and supported at home by his parents, and is relying on his grandmother to step in.

Now it this time you can proactively fix this, but you and your husband in particular need to do the work.

Your DH needs to apologise, not your DM.

Your son is being bullied by your DH.

Your DC is being bullied and school and is also being bullied at home by his DF. I predict that if you stay in that relationship his behaviour will only escalate. You need to leave in order to protect your DC to allow him to heal and change his behaviours.

Your poor DC The only person who has done the right thing in this is your mother who defended him. He’s being bullied at home too, can you not see that? Your ‘D’H is a bully and he would not be welcome back in my house again. I think you need to seriously consider the effect this is having on your DC before it’s too late.

I really feel for you in this situation as I think you're starting to accept that your marriage isn't working and that's a horrible place to be. However you do need to take action and stand firm. Do not appease him and do not let him divert blame to your mum or your son, or even you.

Your DH sounds awful, OP.

I really feel for your DC

Sounds like it's better off he leaves. He sounds like an absolute arsehole. Have your ds's back op ffs.

OP I had a loving but very critical mother and was bullied at school.

At 40 I've been blighted by low self esteem my entire life. I've had multiple abusive relationships and for the past 8 years I've been literally unable to get into another restaurant without self sabotaging within a few dates. I'm a chronic under achiever.

It's honestly has dominated the path my life has taken. Your DM is right this is emotional abuse.

Instead of getting your DM to apologise you should be thanking her for having the love and courage to defend your DC. If she apologises you're effectively silencing her from ever speaking out for you and DC again and DC may feel they've lost the support of that one person who would always have their back. You'd only be doing it to appease your bully of a DH anyway and you'd be condoning his shitty behaviour. Please don't scapegoat your DM here when you know full well this is all on DH.

*another relationship. Restaurants are fine

Oh OP, no judgement - I can see its very hard and you are trying to do the right thing.

I was relentlessly emotionally abused by my step mother. My father stood by and watched it happen (he also sided with her, which I know you are not doing, so you're doing a lot better than him- he didn't realise there was a problem!). I will not leave my DC in the care of my step mother OR my Dad - she is an abuser and he is unwilling to see the problem or protect anyone. I make this point because I do believe that if you don't step in, you will damage your DC's trust in you as well as your DH and that would be a real shame.

Oh, and another vote for your mum- she should be thanked, not asked to apologise. How brave of her to stand up to a bully like that.