S@“t has hit the fan. What would you do?

[Whotsithitthefan]

NC as outing. Long time poster.

I can’t sleep. DH had left. Sleeping in the car somewhere I think. DM here staying. DC being bullied at school and so is being a nightmare at home. Once he’s talked about what’s going on he’s fine but while he’s holding it all in, quite frankly, he’s a grumpy thug.

DH approach is long lectures. Reminding DC of past difficult behaviour. Criticising. Telling off. He takes it very personally when DC insults him or is rude to him. Won’t let it go.

I tend to try and listen first as there is always a context and then discuss the difficult behaviour once things are calm and I think DC can reflect.

Tonight DC was acting up. I stayed out of it as DH doesn’t like me taking over and finds it undermining if I offer a different approach. He wants me to back him up but I can’t because I feel like DC would then feel the whole world was against him/her and I don’t want to join in the critical lecture and when I do try and back DH up things just escalate anyway.

So I focused tonight on clearing up and left DH and DC to it. Meanwhile I don’t realise that DM is finding the way DH is talking to DC unbearable. She had told me earlier and I had a bit of a moan as I’m finding it hard.

I then hear really raised voices. DM shouting at DH that he is abusing DC with his criticism and domineering. She’s very upset. He’s really angry with her. DC joining in.

I stood between them and just repeated ‘time out’ over and over. DH kept going and going. When I kept saying time out DC would join in and told DH he’s a psycho. DH finally left and I managed to get DC calm and to sleep.

I’m in bed but can’t sleep as I can see it from all angles and have no clue what to do.

DC ‘full up’ emotionally and feeling particularly got at by DH. Deliberately pushes him because he knows he loses the plot and is testing him. The behaviours need addressing but also DC is a child and is overwhelmed at the moment.

DH is feeling blamed by me and unsupported by me. Feels like I get in the way of their relationship and turn DC against him because I’ll stick up for DC if I feel DH is out of order. I have been trying to stay out of it but it’s hard when it’s a child getting it in the neck. Tonight I stayed out of it apart from ‘time out’ when it was getting too heated. DH is sleeping in his car somewhere refusing to ever talk to my DM ever again. Wants us out of the house tomorrow at one point so he can change for work. Telling me I’m toxic and causing him MH issues (I can be quite critical to be fair) but I feel he’s the one whose being toxic to DC who should be the priority.

DM now in bits because she thinks she’s ‘ruined my life’.

Have today tried to be calm and have supported both DC and DM with their stuff. Feeling too cross with DH to support him much but am worried about him.

Feel like no one is supporting me. I hold the emotional stuff for them all but what about me? AIBU to wish there was someone in my life that was calm and steady to ‘hold’ things together.

How do I handle things tomorrow? I’ll have to do the school run so ‘brave face’ on. Then I know DM will be distraught. God knows if DH will get in touch.

Just needed to get this out and hope someone is awake and had some advice. I need to get some sleep.

[PyongyangKipperbang]

And perhaps your child is standing out as an easy victim to the bullies because thats all he knows. His father is a bully and his mother cows down, thats what he has learned. Maybe he will be stand up to his bullies when you stand up to yours.

I am not blaming you for what is happening to your son, but I am pointing out that behaviour is learned at home and you can teach him different lessons to the ones he has learned so far.

[virginfannyornaments]

Please don't ask your DM to apologise. IMO she did nothing wrong apart from stand up for a child who was being bullied. And I think that takes guts. Many people would turn a blind eye. Your husband is bullying your child, so the poor kid is being bullied at home by him and at school. It's all him, he's at fault, and why shouldn't you undermine him if you don't agree with his methods. Please don't let him ruin your relationship with your DM. If he makes you choose (and they always try this) choose her.

[NiceTwin]

Can you see if you can get referred into family therapy?
It can be helpful to be observed by outsiders who can unpick and assist with relationships. Obviously your dh would have to be on board.

[Jellybabiesforbreakfast]

I thought you were going to mention a teen.

Your girl/boy is a small child who is having to deal with some big emotions and who is already feeling worthless at school because of the bullying. And then they come home, let it all out in their safe place (which results in some bad behaviour) and get THIS... more negativity and aggression from your DH.

Where exactly is your child's safe place, OP? Where can they feel love and acceptance? Where is the positivity, patience and good humour?

Yes, you have to pull your DC up on the bad behaviour but, to be honest, until you get the bullying sorted, my reaction to most things would be a hug and a "do you want to talk about it?" Your DC is having to deal with some pretty powerful and negative feelings and they're so young. It's not surprising they're finding it difficult.

Your DH has no such excuse. His critical, aggressive, negative parenting is totally inappropriate for a young child (especially one that needs to be 'bigged up' about themselves at the moment). It sounds like he is obsessed with being right and imposing his will. He needs to stop and think for a moment about whether either he or your DC feel good about themselves after their interactions. Does DC ever run up to him and hug him spontaneously?

Your DM is right. I would be upset to see a grandchild treated that way. Yes, grandparents shouldn't interfere and should generally stay out of parental discipline, but there is a difference between a talking-to or consequence given or imposed calmly and the aggression and bullying your DH has subjected your DS to. The message your DH is giving your DS is "Behave or you'll have me to be afraid of", rather than "Behave, because it's the right thing to do and misbehaving has consequences". It's ruling through fear.

[Estasala]

1, 2, 3 Magic is a great book for behaviour. It explains why relationship building is important and why long lectures for bad behaviour doesn't work. It gives non-shouting alternatives.

How to talk so kids will listen is also good.

Would your DH read something like this?

[SausagePourHomme]

Please protect your child from this bull. Your husband has got you all dancing to his tune.

As for your child; all behaviour is communication. Look up Unconditional Positive Regard. Your dc likely can't help the outbursts and can't be reasoned out of them. They are reacting to being overwhelmingly stressed.

[SausagePourHomme]

Bully! Not bull.

[expat101]

Has DH felt under pressure/not happy at home before when your Mum has stayed over? Is his nose out of joint because of her visit, and thus he is more short-fused than normal?

And for the record, I don't think your Mum needs to apologize to DH. She was looking out for her GS and I dare say she heard a lot more before she reacted.

It's probably best he stays away for the week and does some serious thinking.

In the meanwhile, you need to follow up with school to see what plan they have implemented for your son to protect him from being bullied. When you start to have a conversation again with DH, that should be your immediate focus and priority.

[Shelddd]

Your DM should not have intervened... but I think this is something very very common that happens. It's why there are so many issues around having in laws living with you. They can't be impartial and always get involved... I wouldn't blame your DM for doing what most probably would.. even if it did escalate the situation (it clearly did).

[QueenBee52]

@Shelddd

Your DM should not have intervened... but I think this is something very very common that happens. It's why there are so many issues around having in laws living with you. They can't be impartial and always get involved... I wouldn't blame your DM for doing what most probably would.. even if it did escalate the situation (it clearly did).

are you serious ?

[DeflatedApple]

I don't understand why you would ask your mother to apologise?

Sorry but she's the only one who did right by your child this evening!

[Feedingthebirds1]

Poor DC, being bullied at school and at home - which should be his safe place and escape.

Your DH clearly has to be the alpha male in the household, and won't tolerate anything that he sees as a challenge to his authority.

I wish you luck OP, but you may be right that this is the end. I can't see him changing in his belief that he is number 1, the big I Am.

[Clymene]

Your poor little boy. He is being bullied at school and bullied at home.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

@Whotsithitthefan

Thecatfromjapan - I do feel ground down. And stuck. And like I can’t parent the way I need to. I’m going to text him tomorrow and make sure he knows he’s welcome back but that this needs to change. I need to be able to parent the way I know works and is better for DC and our family atmosphere.

Your mum advocated for your child because you felt unable to do so. She totally did the right thing for intervening. Someone had to intervene, your husband was abusing your ds.

Your husband has a hold on you and made you believe he is in charge of you both and I do agree with someone, who said you and your ds are being abused. In such situations, the advice is not to have counselling as a couple. At least your counsellor has seen through him.

What would your counsellor say about this incident? What would they say to you if you had counselling with them alone? I bet they wouldn’t agree you should try to smooth things over and force your mum into a position of weakness by apologising. And I bet they would have something to say about his behaviour… or rather pose some interesting and pointed questions about him.

I agree with you that the situation needs to change. You obviously cannot make him change or make him seek help for his anger. The only changes you can make is to change your behaviour, ie advocating for your child and not putting up with your husband’s crap. He will then have to adapt to your modified behaviour.

I agree with a pp, who said to pack him a bag and tell him to stay away for a while. Your ds needs time for the situation to calm.

Why did you move? Have you moved away from your mum and network of support for your husband’s work or something?

[Birminghambloke]

Your DM did what you should have done. You put your DC is a situation to continue to be emotionally abused. You put your DM in that situation by her seeing first hand and linking to what you’d told her. Of course she is going to step in. It’s very easy for DH to transfer all blame to her.

Your DC is mid primary so Y2-Y4- 6-9? I’ll
Take it as 7/8. His role model is his father? Goodness. DC not seeing bullying ease in school? As Dc’s mother you can’t step back and let a father berate a child. All protective factors around DC (home and school) are not protecting this child from verbal / emotional abuse at the moment. If school were aware of what child experienced last night, this could be a referral. Maybe you call out to Early Help/ Family Support yourself?

If any texts occur it’s to DH to say he’s not welcome back in home until counselling occurs about his appalling behaviour.

This is a tipping point and it’s up to you now to take the right steps- not for your marriage, for your child.

[AntiStars]

I’ve nothing to add advice wise but just wanted to say good luck OP. It sounds like a really tricky situation and am glad that you have a plan that involves some professional help. Regardless of what is happening with DH and DM, your DC is at an age where you don’t want his behaviour getting worse

[Shelddd]

@QueenBee52 yes I am serious. DM was definitely in the wrong. When you witness a family member disciplining their kid you stay out of it. I've been in that situation plenty of times. It's not your place to step in and say something but when it's the grandparents in particular they always seem to do it anyway... So I wouldn't get mad at it personally.

[Sometimesfraught82]

I really felt for you until I read mid primary
And then most of my sympathy transferred to your, what 9 year old?

[QueenBee52]

[quote Shelddd]@QueenBee52 yes I am serious. DM was definitely in the wrong. When you witness a family member disciplining their kid you stay out of it. I've been in that situation plenty of times. It's not your place to step in and say something but when it's the grandparents in particular they always seem to do it anyway... So I wouldn't get mad at it personally.[/quote]


Whereas, Im glad someone was there to defend this bullied Child from his Bully of a Father.

This Childs Grandmother should be proud of herself. 🌸

[peachyandkeen]

Dont ask your DM to apologise please. That’s wholly inappropriate. She’s fine nothing wrong and is in poor health.

It would only constitute pandering to your DH’s toxic behaviour - and so so unfair to her. It ought to be him apologising to her - shouting at a pensioner like that.

Why do you allow your husband to bully the vulnerable members of your family OP?

Time for you to get your head out of the sand I think.

[AuldFox]

Your husband is behaving highly inappropriately to a child and I bet good money that if you told us the things he has actually said to your child, they would be the words of a tyrant. Even your counsellor has realised this.

What on earth are you doing standing around feebly muttering time out when a small child, whom you have a duty of care towards beyond any other, who is being bullied at school, is being bullied at home by his own bloody father? Your husband needs anger management and parenting classes. I’d be taking my child out of this toxic environment ASAP until he learned how to communicate in a manner appropriate to your child’s age.

[Sweetmotherofallthatisholyabov]

There's no way I'd have my mom text and apologize or I'd leave the house. If he can't come back in I'd say no worries and get him what he needed in a bag. You do undermine him and don't support him because you fundamentally think what he's doing is damaging. No point pussy footing around that. There's times I'll blindly support dh disciplining the kids when I disagree with him and I'll tell him afterwards. And there's times I'll support the kids- there's a greater good piece at play.

But if you're mom texts to say sorry then she's lying and you're just confusing dh whether he's right but unsupported.

[Bonnieonthelam]

@Whotsithitthefan

Mid primary.

Bullied at school. Then bullied by your DH. You, your DM AND your DC are being bullied. He sounds awful. I think you’ve done everything I would have done. Sounds like your DH is the problem. He should know his limits. Don’t blame your DM for stepping in, she is watching her DGC being verbally/emotionally abused. It doesn’t have to be swear words. Bearing down on small children is harsh.

[RedRec]

Do not ask your mum to apologise. She has done nothing wrong. She was protecting your child from that bully.
Lamely saying "time out" does not cut it in this instance.

[peachyandkeen]

Do you think, OP, if you’re completely honest with yourself (and I ask this with kindness), that at some level you are also intimidated by your DH?

Is that perhaps the reason why you are perhaps unable / unwilling to protect DC/DM in the face of this bullying and verbal abuse?