S@“t has hit the fan. What would you do?

[Whotsithitthefan]

NC as outing. Long time poster.

I can’t sleep. DH had left. Sleeping in the car somewhere I think. DM here staying. DC being bullied at school and so is being a nightmare at home. Once he’s talked about what’s going on he’s fine but while he’s holding it all in, quite frankly, he’s a grumpy thug.

DH approach is long lectures. Reminding DC of past difficult behaviour. Criticising. Telling off. He takes it very personally when DC insults him or is rude to him. Won’t let it go.

I tend to try and listen first as there is always a context and then discuss the difficult behaviour once things are calm and I think DC can reflect.

Tonight DC was acting up. I stayed out of it as DH doesn’t like me taking over and finds it undermining if I offer a different approach. He wants me to back him up but I can’t because I feel like DC would then feel the whole world was against him/her and I don’t want to join in the critical lecture and when I do try and back DH up things just escalate anyway.

So I focused tonight on clearing up and left DH and DC to it. Meanwhile I don’t realise that DM is finding the way DH is talking to DC unbearable. She had told me earlier and I had a bit of a moan as I’m finding it hard.

I then hear really raised voices. DM shouting at DH that he is abusing DC with his criticism and domineering. She’s very upset. He’s really angry with her. DC joining in.

I stood between them and just repeated ‘time out’ over and over. DH kept going and going. When I kept saying time out DC would join in and told DH he’s a psycho. DH finally left and I managed to get DC calm and to sleep.

I’m in bed but can’t sleep as I can see it from all angles and have no clue what to do.

DC ‘full up’ emotionally and feeling particularly got at by DH. Deliberately pushes him because he knows he loses the plot and is testing him. The behaviours need addressing but also DC is a child and is overwhelmed at the moment.

DH is feeling blamed by me and unsupported by me. Feels like I get in the way of their relationship and turn DC against him because I’ll stick up for DC if I feel DH is out of order. I have been trying to stay out of it but it’s hard when it’s a child getting it in the neck. Tonight I stayed out of it apart from ‘time out’ when it was getting too heated. DH is sleeping in his car somewhere refusing to ever talk to my DM ever again. Wants us out of the house tomorrow at one point so he can change for work. Telling me I’m toxic and causing him MH issues (I can be quite critical to be fair) but I feel he’s the one whose being toxic to DC who should be the priority.

DM now in bits because she thinks she’s ‘ruined my life’.

Have today tried to be calm and have supported both DC and DM with their stuff. Feeling too cross with DH to support him much but am worried about him.

Feel like no one is supporting me. I hold the emotional stuff for them all but what about me? AIBU to wish there was someone in my life that was calm and steady to ‘hold’ things together.

How do I handle things tomorrow? I’ll have to do the school run so ‘brave face’ on. Then I know DM will be distraught. God knows if DH will get in touch.

Just needed to get this out and hope someone is awake and had some advice. I need to get some sleep.

[thecatfromjapan]

'He’s a good dad I’m so many ways but this is his Achilles heel. If he feels disrespected or under valued.'

People who kick off with aggression (which is what your DH did) when they feel disrespected or devalued' are actually quite scary, OP.

[Notimeforaname]

OK. I hate to say this but I think your annoyance with your mother is misplaced
I agree with this.

[NakedNugget]

@Notimeforaname

OK. I hate to say this but I think your annoyance with your mother is misplaced
I agree with this.

Also agree. Your dm was defending a child who needed defending and it's what you should be doing

[thecatfromjapan]

Apart from anything else, it means that they are forcing everyone around them to constantly, constantly assuage their sense of importance and self.

Woe betide anyone who can't/won't. Like a child.

And look what you are prepared to tolerate to assuage that fragility and avoid the violent outburst: your mother being shouted at. Your child being shouted at.

[Mymapuddlington]

Your child is being bullied at school and at home. DM was understandably upset at her grandchild being attacked verbally.
I’d personally text DH and explain that DM couldn’t stand by and watch him pull apart an already hurt child and why should she?
I wouldn’t leave the house for him, he needs to grow up, apologise to all of you and you both need a discussion and comprise on how you raise and discipline DC.

[Whotsithitthefan]

Thank you all. Yes. This isn’t normal for sure. None of it. It’s bloody awful.

I do stick up for DC if I feel DH is being unfair but then DH blames that for DC not listening to him because I’m undermining him so hence I left them to it tonight.

DC isn’t a ‘thug’ you are right I was just using it to describe what can be very oppositional and aggressive behaviour. I don’t think it’s a diagnosable issue as when things are better at school and home he’s just normal and often wonderfully empathic and kind. He’s just totally overwhelmed at the moment. Daily teasing and exclusion in new school. Moved house and area recently. School are aware and it’s being dealt with. Happening at after school clubs too so it’s hard for him. He’s not used to it as was really popular in his old school which I then feel crap about moving.

I think my immediate plan is:
Watch some in and TV to block out thoughts and sleep
School run brave face.
Park somewhere quiet have a cry. Have a walk.
Home and let DM talk - suggest she texts DH.
If he still wants us to be out do it to keep the peace if DM can. She’s not on the best of health.
Then school run brave face. Listen to DC try to help him unpack his emotions before bed.
Might text DH to let him know welcome home and I’m happy to talk.
Continue counselling and next time raise this issue again.
I’m going to set a date by which if we’ve not managed significant change we need to split.

It’s really helped to hear that this is more teenager territory and that communication with younger kids needs to be simple. He used words like insolent. I’d struggle to define that. He lectures me too come to think of it.

[Isadora2007]

Get a crisis appt with your counsellor to discuss this? What’s the respect thing really about? How does he show respect? To you and his child? What was his father like? Did he like it and what did he learn from it?
If he’s been working on the father and child relationship and it’s been a help, maybe he hasn’t undone it all… he may be worried he has but that kind of all/nothing stuff isn’t helpful. Life is shades of grey. But he seems very impetuous and extreme. And exhausting.

[thecatfromjapan]

So, why is your DH like this? is it something that is likely to be resolved in therapy/counselling? How committed is he to recognising he had a problem? And to changing?

I'm concerned that his answer is to exclude you from modelling better communication. I'm worried that he's presumably seen you modelling better communication for years now and hasn't thought to copy you.

I also worry that he interprets your efforts to discuss better communication as criticism and undermining.

Blaming you for his depression is also a worry. It suggests he had deep-seated issues about being controlled as a child, and has now projected that onto you - holding you responsible for things that happened many, many years ago - as well as present-day stuff that is actually within his power (& only his power) to deal with.

These are not small issues. It might take a lot of counselling - and an enormous willingness on the part of your husband to change - to deal with.

You sound really ground down. No wonder. It's difficult.

[Whotsithitthefan]

I think it is not just your child your DH has undermined. I think he had control over your interaction with your child, and he has you in a place where you prioritise his perceived needs over what your senses and intelligence tell you.

Sh&t. That’s right. I hadn’t thought of it like that. I think there is truth in me undermining his authority when I stick up for DC but that’s made me blind to the above.

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

I understand that you're upset that everything has exploded, but in all honesty it sounds like it was a ticking timebomb anyway.
It's unfair to blame your mother - she was a catalyst, sure, but your husband caused all this. ALL of it.

Exploding in that way at a child who is being bullied is so counterproductive, to say nothing of being abusive. Before you gave your child's age, I thought you were going to say mid-teens - still not ok then, but more understandable. Your child being about 8 - no. This is not ok.

I have an 8yo DS - he's a royal PITA and has attitude a mile wide and high. He's also a wind up merchant (takes after his father ) and pushes my buttons regularly. I still wouldn't do what your husband does - long critical lectures are not the answer, especially when your child is still upset/angry/acting up.
Don't get me wrong - I do shout at mine when he's misbehaving, but it's short and to stop him in the moment. Then he goes off on his own for a bit, we calm down, and THEN we have a chat about it.

Sure your mum shouldn't have got involved, but I can see why she did - it's horrible to witness someone being shredded, especially a small child! - and your husband is now being unutterably immature because he's refusing to accept that anyone else had any kind of point, or that he was wrong in any way.

If I was your mum, I wouldn't want to stay in the house with your husband any longer - but if she has no choice, then I hope he chooses to stay away, because I don't see why your mum should curtail her visit because of his tantrums.

He has to be able to see that he bears the brunt of the responsibility for this situation. If he can't do that, then yeah, I think you're done. :(

[freckles20]

My heart goes out to you OP.

You sound so insightful, empathetic considered, and prepared time learn and compromise . Your DH doesn't sound this way at all.

I really think he needs some parenting or family therapy.

IMO things like this can have a more profound and lasting impact on children compared to adults. You are right to be protecting your DC despite upsetting your husband.

[Whotsithitthefan]

Thecatfromjapan - I do feel ground down. And stuck. And like I can’t parent the way I need to. I’m going to text him tomorrow and make sure he knows he’s welcome back but that this needs to change. I need to be able to parent the way I know works and is better for DC and our family atmosphere.

[Mymapuddlington]

truth in me undermining his authority when I stick up for DC

Sticking up for a primary child being verbally abused isn’t ‘undermining’

[thecatfromjapan]

It's incredibly hard when it's been going on for a long time.

Have you thought about using counselling to also examine the idea that your husband exerts control over you? That is, yes, keep on looking at his parenting style - but also explore the power dynamics of your relationship.

I'd definitely be bringing up this incident in a session and talking about it.

And you should think about what you 'edit' when you discuss it.

[Whotsithitthefan]

Thank you all for your support and wisdom off to watch crap TV to try and get to sleep. Feel clearer now. Thank you.

[thecatfromjapan]

For what it's worth, I think your mother cares a great deal about you and your child.

[me4real]

You rock OP.

[mathanxiety]

I think my immediate plan is:
Watch some in and TV to block out thoughts and sleep
School run brave face.
Park somewhere quiet have a cry. Have a walk.

• Home and let DM talk - suggest she texts DH.
  
• If he still wants us to be out do it to keep the peace if DM can. She’s not on the best of health.
  Then school run brave face. Listen to DC try to help him unpack his emotions before bed.
  Might text DH to let him know welcome home and I’m happy to talk.
  Continue counselling and next time raise this issue again.
  I’m going to set a date by which if we’ve not managed significant change we need to split.
  
  That's all fine except for the bits where you and your mother pander to your H's temper.
  
  Do not leave the house. He is engaged in a power struggle with you here. DO NOT back down. The more you give in the more he will demand.
  
  Do not have your mother text H to apologise. She has nothing to apologise for.
  
  This situation was caused by your H. He is the one who should be grovelling to everyone and begging forgiveness.

[thecatfromjapan]

I know you've gone and I also know this might be too much to take on board right now but ... I'm just going to leave it here to think about.

You were preparing to get your mother to apologise to your husband for prioritising your child and you.

Actually, you and your child do have the right to be prioritised over your husband.

I'm just saying that because you may not have thought you have that right for some time.

[IAmDaveTheSerialShagger]

Your husband is a dick screaming at your child and mother like that, if it got so relentless your mum had to intervene then surely @Whotsithitthefan you know your husband is abusive?

Let him tantrum and sulk, your child is struggling a lot more than you and him, your children come first.

[CrazyCatsAndKittens]

I hope you got some sleep.

I agree with the others that your mum shouldn't text him and apologise. You seem to be in the habit of playing the peace-maker and pandering to his moods, but that isn't a healthy dynamic. I think your mum did the right thing in standing up to him and she should be thanked for that.

He sounds like a bully and you are minimising his behavior. Do you always go for counselling together or do you go on your own sometimes? I think some time away from him so see the reality of how bad the situation really is would be helpful for you.

[timeisnotaline]

Don’t leave the house. If he can’t come around to better parenting you will be hoping to keep the house, and if he can’t give at all then you’ve recognised there’s no hope. Start the way you mean to go on- he needs to give here, not be pandered to.

[Melitza]

It's not right to leave a primary age dc to be bullied by his father.
You should ntervene, your dm was doing your job for you tonight.
If things don't change you will have a bad relationship with your dc, your dh and your dm.

[CrazyCatsAndKittens]

I just re-read your OP and it is so sad to read. I hope you will re-read it too and realise what a nasty, manipulative man your husband is.

My advice is to pack him a suitcase with his clothes in it and leave it out front for him to pick up. He's not a good guy. Not a good dad and absolutely not a good husband.

[PyongyangKipperbang]

You and your child are victims of abuse. Your mother can see that and stood up for you both.

He needs to leave, not you. Stop appeasing this selfish prick. He doesnt like how things are and are going to be? Then he leaves.