S@“t has hit the fan. What would you do?

[Whotsithitthefan]

NC as outing. Long time poster.

I can’t sleep. DH had left. Sleeping in the car somewhere I think. DM here staying. DC being bullied at school and so is being a nightmare at home. Once he’s talked about what’s going on he’s fine but while he’s holding it all in, quite frankly, he’s a grumpy thug.

DH approach is long lectures. Reminding DC of past difficult behaviour. Criticising. Telling off. He takes it very personally when DC insults him or is rude to him. Won’t let it go.

I tend to try and listen first as there is always a context and then discuss the difficult behaviour once things are calm and I think DC can reflect.

Tonight DC was acting up. I stayed out of it as DH doesn’t like me taking over and finds it undermining if I offer a different approach. He wants me to back him up but I can’t because I feel like DC would then feel the whole world was against him/her and I don’t want to join in the critical lecture and when I do try and back DH up things just escalate anyway.

So I focused tonight on clearing up and left DH and DC to it. Meanwhile I don’t realise that DM is finding the way DH is talking to DC unbearable. She had told me earlier and I had a bit of a moan as I’m finding it hard.

I then hear really raised voices. DM shouting at DH that he is abusing DC with his criticism and domineering. She’s very upset. He’s really angry with her. DC joining in.

I stood between them and just repeated ‘time out’ over and over. DH kept going and going. When I kept saying time out DC would join in and told DH he’s a psycho. DH finally left and I managed to get DC calm and to sleep.

I’m in bed but can’t sleep as I can see it from all angles and have no clue what to do.

DC ‘full up’ emotionally and feeling particularly got at by DH. Deliberately pushes him because he knows he loses the plot and is testing him. The behaviours need addressing but also DC is a child and is overwhelmed at the moment.

DH is feeling blamed by me and unsupported by me. Feels like I get in the way of their relationship and turn DC against him because I’ll stick up for DC if I feel DH is out of order. I have been trying to stay out of it but it’s hard when it’s a child getting it in the neck. Tonight I stayed out of it apart from ‘time out’ when it was getting too heated. DH is sleeping in his car somewhere refusing to ever talk to my DM ever again. Wants us out of the house tomorrow at one point so he can change for work. Telling me I’m toxic and causing him MH issues (I can be quite critical to be fair) but I feel he’s the one whose being toxic to DC who should be the priority.

DM now in bits because she thinks she’s ‘ruined my life’.

Have today tried to be calm and have supported both DC and DM with their stuff. Feeling too cross with DH to support him much but am worried about him.

Feel like no one is supporting me. I hold the emotional stuff for them all but what about me? AIBU to wish there was someone in my life that was calm and steady to ‘hold’ things together.

How do I handle things tomorrow? I’ll have to do the school run so ‘brave face’ on. Then I know DM will be distraught. God knows if DH will get in touch.

Just needed to get this out and hope someone is awake and had some advice. I need to get some sleep.

[RedBonnet]

When I was abused as a kid no-one stepped in to stop it. My dad didn't see it, my mam's mam didn't see it, although on the odd occasion something showed up she would tell my mam off for it (happened maybe twice) and my wise old gran on my dad's side never said anything because she knew she'd be blocked from our lives. But we knew she was there for us. In the end she was the one who saved us. Never stop grandparents from 'interfereing' in such situations.

The very fact that a grandparent stepped over that line to intervene should tell you how bad it was.

Please listen to the other posters and look at actions of those in the family, not the words.

Much love xx

[Lilymossflower]

I agree with ya mum here. That dh is a bully and emotionally abusive to child

[Patapouf]

your Dm had no business getting involved and made things worse.

If the reason why you have no United parenting front because your DH is abusive or are you just not on the same page?

[TheWeeDonkey]

@Patapouf if you CBA to read the whole thread you can click on 'see all' on the OP post and you can see whats happening within the family.

[Patapouf]

[quote TheWeeDonkey]@Patapouf if you CBA to read the whole thread you can click on 'see all' on the OP post and you can see whats happening within the family.[/quote]
ta but I have RTFT

[TheWeeDonkey]

All of that and your issue is OP is not being supportive enough when her husband is berating and ridiculing a primary school age child?

Are you OPs husband?

[Blossomtoes]

@Patapouf

your Dm had no business getting involved and made things worse.

If the reason why you have no United parenting front because your DH is abusive or are you just not on the same page?

Someone had to stand up for the poor kid. Her mum did absolutely the right thing.

[Bluntness100]

@Patapouf

your Dm had no business getting involved and made things worse.

If the reason why you have no United parenting front because your DH is abusive or are you just not on the same page?

What? What an odd response.

[user1471442488]

This poor little boy 😢

Your husband is a piece of shit and is ruining your child’s self esteem and sense of worth. You’re not only standing by allowing this to happen, but you are making excuses for his behaviour. Put your child first ffs.

Oh, and good on your mum. At least someone has this poor child’s back.

[tony68]

Trapped in a cycle of abusive behaviour, won't somebody think of the child? Oh, that's right, grams did but you are intent on painting her in a bad light for some reason? She isn't bullying your child. DH is, what the hell names is he calling him? He's a fucktard. Threw his toys out of the pram because somebody dared to question his authority, now he's sulking in a fucking car park wanting to be assuaged by his pandering wife and vulnerable son. If this wasn't so sad, it would be hilarious. Grow some balls, op, and stop blaming outside parties for your own and DH's behaviour. The blame lies with DH for being a cunt and you for allowing him to treat a bullied 8 year old like shit. Honestly, if this was my child I'd have come down like a tonne of bricks now, there'd nothing left for Dm to shout at, he would be cowering in the corner like a shitting dog. I hate bullies.

[Billandben444]

your Dm had no business getting involved and made things worse.

This is wrong. At what stage would you condone her getting involved in protecting her small grandson from his abusive father? When the boy is sobbing with fear? When his father raises his hand? Come on, somebody had to step in!

[me4real]

Name calling= cut and dried verbal abuse.

You need to separate from your child's abuser now.

The verbal abuse will stay with him if it carries on, and will effect his self-esteem for life. It probably already has effected it, at least temporarily.

The home situation is definitely not helping with the difficulties he's experiencing at school etc. Home should be a place where someone gets comfort and support to help them face other situations, and emotional resilience.

You know all this @Whotsithitthefan . You need to separate from DS's abuser and make him a home that supports and nurtures him.

[HTH1]

Sorry OP, sounds like hell

My plan of action would be:

1. Make immediate plans for DS to move schools.
   
2. DM out as soon as possible.
   
3. Find a way to fix DS/DH relationship, perhaps by giving each of them more of their own space. Spoil DS a bit as he sounds very unhappy and like this is contributing to the situation.
   
4. Consider getting DS a pet (if you’re happy with that) and sort out some play dates with new friends from new school.
   
5. Work on your relationship with DH. Doing fun things together and trying to recreate what you had when first together is surely more likely to be successful than counselling.

[agododopushpineapple]

OP stop navel gazing take a step back and see this for it is.

Everyone is telling you what he’s doing is right. The fact that he’s acting like a spoiled child is even worse.

Ignoring the weird 1950’a housewife comments - and even ignoring every post on here - you’ve had at least three people IRL tell you that what he’s doing it wrong - including his own mother.

You seem more intent on psychoanalysing everyone’s behaviour than actually maybe considering the effect of the behaviour of you and your DH on your son.

Sorry if this sounds harsh - but ffs pull your head out of your arse.

[justasking111]

If @Whotsithitthefan lets this fester on passive will equal enabler in her child eyes. One day they'll be able to walk away damaged but free. She'll be left wondering why said offspring doesn't visit as her friends offspring do.

[ItsAllKindaWeird]

@Whotsithitthefan
I feel for you in this, i really do. I have no advice as such, just that there's a point somewhere, when you know. You may not be able to verbalise what that line in the sand is, but your gut knows. It might be a bit blurry and not so easy to tell when or what that is, as your own experiences do not necessarily provide you with a positive example.
You rationalise, excuse, mediate, apologise for someone else's behaviour, find fault in your own actions and others apart from the one person who is actually responsible. Everything you do is to please your DH, you need to see that he has manipulated you to think this way.
You must be emotionally exhausted trying to manage everyone else's stuff.

In my case, because i was (am) the fixer, the one that holds it all together, i didn't want the responsibility of being the one to blow it all up, to be the one to call it quits, cos i don't quit. I was rationalising everything to the degree of it never quite being enough to press that button, i refused to believe that what i had always been determined to avoid (repeating what i'd experienced), i was actually enabling, and by doing so, i was mentally damaging my own daughters, setting them the exact same example.
Well, the line in the sand came - don't know how - wasn't expecting it, but I pressed that button, i blew it up, my daughters thanked me.
It's only when you get to see it from the other side, the outside, that you truly realise what has been going on, the fog clears.

You are clearly a self reflective person, but this is not your fault. To deal with all you have been already, you've proved to yourself how strong you are, you can do what is needed for yourself and your child.
Take care xx

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

@Whotsithitthefan - that text from your husband blaming you for being coercive and controlling is classic DARVO - deny, attack, reverse victim and offender.

He's refusing to take or accept full responsibility for his loss of control, and loss of adult behaviour and blaming YOU for pulling him up on it.

Your mother - I feel for her, I do. She obviously has residual guilt from how she coped, or didn't, with her own abusive marriage. She has been able to stand up for her grandson where she didn't stand up for you like she should have. Please don't fall back into "child mode" with her - yes, you have history and yes, she shouldn't have used you as an emotional prop at the time but she's just been thrown back into the feelings associated with her own abusive marriage, so have a bit of sympathy with her for that.

You definitely need more personal counselling - not with your husband - to unpick your own history.
He needs help - but in the end, he HAS to take responsibility and if he can't do that, then there's no helping him.

PPs are correct that your DC is learning this behaviour from him and will repeat it unless the dynamic is changed. You've (just?) realised that you have dropped back into your childhood role of passive peacekeeper, to appease your own abusive father - you need to take control of that behaviour too.

It's bloody hard to break our "programming" - even for me, reading your thread, I've realised that my own parenting is mirroring too much of my parents' approaches, that I didn't appreciate myself.

There are some good book referrals on here - will be getting them myself! - please read those when you get a chance.

You also need to tell your husband that his feelings are not of primary importance in this scenario, your son's are. To that end, I would not have allowed your husband to pick your boy up from school - why did your H get that choice? He is still calling the shots here and you're still letting him.

You've said that this all stops now - well, part of that is learning to prioritise your son's needs and feelings over your H's, and for him (your H) to realise that this must happen now. I'm not saying to totally ignore your H's needs and feelings, but he's a fucking adult, he should learn to self-manage better! Your son is the priority.

It's a learning curve for sure - but you'll get there. Centre your son in the family (not to a pandering extent, obviously!) and try to get your H to do so too.

@GobletsOfFire - so sorry you had to live through that, what a horrible way to treat children :(

[FuckYouCorona]

I'm sorry for you Op, because you are being abused yourself, but simply don't see it. What is it going to take for you to accept that your H is abusing your DS? Good on DM for intervening. Somebody had to. Nothing you have written makes me feel like you are taking on board the seriousness of the situation & are prepared to put DS first. It is clear that you & H's relationship is priority. At the moment you are an enabler, so little better than he is.

I hope DS or DM speak up so he can be taken to a place of safety, because you are either too blinkered to see it, or refuse to. My mum was like you. NEVER put us DC first. ALWAYS prioritised her relationship with our dad. We are ALL incredibly damaged adults. Why have DC if you're not prepared to put them first?

[mathanxiety]

The three Cs as taught in AlAnon are applicable here.

In fact, if you don't wrap your mind around these three precepts, you will find yourself continuing to enable the abuse here.

You didn't cause this problem.
You can't control this problem.
You can't cure it.

The first two are hard for someone who was brought up in an abusive home.

You are conditioned to believe that you have contributed to the abuse. There must be some reason for it, right? If you are partly responsible then it's in your power to make it stop, right? It's very hard to admit that the abuser is not responding to anything you do. We all like to feel we have some influence in our own homes, some control over our own lives, some influence over someone who once told us they loved us.

You are conditioned to believe that you can control it all, keep a lid on it, mediate, mitigate, pour oil on troubled waters. In many ways, a home full of unpredictability and turmoil and danger of all kinds is the only kind of home that feels like 'Home'. It's easy to fall into the trap of believing you can control it - the alternative is terrifying. The alternative is that you are completely at the mercy of your abuser. Unfortunately, this is the reality. Any belief in your ability to control him is toxic optimism. It's toxic because it holds you prisoner while you keep on trying to prevent the worst.

The third is hard for someone who deep down believes she has an important place in the heart of her man.

[Oomph]

I think thecatfromjapan has nailed it

[ReluctantNeatFreak]

OP, I am in the same position as you right now - posted my own thread about DH behaviour over the weekend, had my eyes opened to the fact that his behaviour is not normal and to be accepted and smoothed over by me, but emotionally abusive. I 100% identify with all your posts (accepting own flaws, trying to be peacekeeper, DH lovely a lot of the time but critical, lecturing, name-calling and sulking also). I'm now on the path to separation unless he is willing to work on this (he isn't as he doesn't see that he's a problem at all).

I just wanted to let you know you're not alone.

[WellThisIsShit]

It’s a hard situation when you are the one immersed in it. It’s difficult to see clearly when none of the protagonists are perfect, and you are trying to be balanced and fair. The characters don’t divide quite so easily into ‘good’ and ‘evil’.

I know you are having joint counselling, but it might be worth having some individual counselling too. It would help centre you and give you some clarity, and I think you desperately need some clarity on what’s actually happening here, and the way ahead for you.

[RedToothBrush]

@Whotsithitthefan

So wish I’d no mentioned the pastries. They are comfort food in a time of crisis!!

Read my posts fully before judging me as a bad mum. I have had about two hours sleep. Am at an emotional rock bottom. I got up and put all of that to one side because first and foremost I am a mum. I made sure my DC had a calm morning. Checked in with him how was doing. Let the teacher know what’s going on. He’s fine and has a plan to join forces with his friends to beat the bullies by always including everyone. When he’s feeling resourced he’s such a sweetheart. The pastries were self care to help me feel a bit of comfort. If you see my PP you’ll see plenty of evidence that I’m a committed and dedicated parent that hit a blind spot with DH behaviour but is dealing with it. Please read all PP before judging.

Re DM. We have had a good chat. I reassured her she did the right thing. We haven’t left. She is resting in bed as it’s been a bit emotional. DH is here showering. Hasn’t spoken to me. Have had a text saying I am negging him and am coercive and controlling in amongst other things. Blaming me entirely. I think this is the nail in the coffin.

He's screaming abuse in your mother's face then calls you coercive.

Class DARVO and the above is the massive tell.

He can't have it both ways. He can't excuse his behaviour towards your mother by blaming your behaviour.

The common factor is him and his acceptable behavior to three people: you, your mother and your son.

I hope you treat this as the nail in the coffin. Councilling won't work. All he is doing is using it to control you further and blame you because he has no intention of taking responsibility nor criticism himself.

[ScrollingLeaves]

I think the OP may feel pushed into a corner by the majority of views on this thread. She probably does not really want to break up her marriage or certainly not at present.

Probably the posters who offer her advice within the basic premise of keeping the marriage are most helpful to her.

[RedToothBrush]

Why?

She's already in counselling which doesn't appear to be helping and said subsequently said that this might be the nail in the coffin.