S@“t has hit the fan. What would you do?

[Whotsithitthefan]

NC as outing. Long time poster.

I can’t sleep. DH had left. Sleeping in the car somewhere I think. DM here staying. DC being bullied at school and so is being a nightmare at home. Once he’s talked about what’s going on he’s fine but while he’s holding it all in, quite frankly, he’s a grumpy thug.

DH approach is long lectures. Reminding DC of past difficult behaviour. Criticising. Telling off. He takes it very personally when DC insults him or is rude to him. Won’t let it go.

I tend to try and listen first as there is always a context and then discuss the difficult behaviour once things are calm and I think DC can reflect.

Tonight DC was acting up. I stayed out of it as DH doesn’t like me taking over and finds it undermining if I offer a different approach. He wants me to back him up but I can’t because I feel like DC would then feel the whole world was against him/her and I don’t want to join in the critical lecture and when I do try and back DH up things just escalate anyway.

So I focused tonight on clearing up and left DH and DC to it. Meanwhile I don’t realise that DM is finding the way DH is talking to DC unbearable. She had told me earlier and I had a bit of a moan as I’m finding it hard.

I then hear really raised voices. DM shouting at DH that he is abusing DC with his criticism and domineering. She’s very upset. He’s really angry with her. DC joining in.

I stood between them and just repeated ‘time out’ over and over. DH kept going and going. When I kept saying time out DC would join in and told DH he’s a psycho. DH finally left and I managed to get DC calm and to sleep.

I’m in bed but can’t sleep as I can see it from all angles and have no clue what to do.

DC ‘full up’ emotionally and feeling particularly got at by DH. Deliberately pushes him because he knows he loses the plot and is testing him. The behaviours need addressing but also DC is a child and is overwhelmed at the moment.

DH is feeling blamed by me and unsupported by me. Feels like I get in the way of their relationship and turn DC against him because I’ll stick up for DC if I feel DH is out of order. I have been trying to stay out of it but it’s hard when it’s a child getting it in the neck. Tonight I stayed out of it apart from ‘time out’ when it was getting too heated. DH is sleeping in his car somewhere refusing to ever talk to my DM ever again. Wants us out of the house tomorrow at one point so he can change for work. Telling me I’m toxic and causing him MH issues (I can be quite critical to be fair) but I feel he’s the one whose being toxic to DC who should be the priority.

DM now in bits because she thinks she’s ‘ruined my life’.

Have today tried to be calm and have supported both DC and DM with their stuff. Feeling too cross with DH to support him much but am worried about him.

Feel like no one is supporting me. I hold the emotional stuff for them all but what about me? AIBU to wish there was someone in my life that was calm and steady to ‘hold’ things together.

How do I handle things tomorrow? I’ll have to do the school run so ‘brave face’ on. Then I know DM will be distraught. God knows if DH will get in touch.

Just needed to get this out and hope someone is awake and had some advice. I need to get some sleep.

OP, in your post where you describe h wanting to collect ds from school, you're still going along with it, with him - even though you need to be around as security back-up. It's still 'DH wants' and he has graciously 'agreed to' you collecting him first. I wouldn't be handing over my child to be on his own with his father, at the father's request, so soon after this had happened. It does seem - unless I've read this post very wrong - that your h's agenda is still priority for you.

And I find your 'It won't happen again if I can help it' very telling. You're clearly not intending to leave, but you are taking on responsibility for 'it' not 'happening' again. You can't be responsible for your husband's behaviour. But you can ensure your son does not have to live with it daily.

OK. I have come back.

Before I go, can I give you something to think about.

Get your child entirely alone. A car parked somewhere quiet or scenic is good, with a few snacks and drinks. Leave as much time for it as you can spare. Take breaks, relax the atmosphere with a little calming music your child likes every now and then. Keep your tone subdued and body relaxed. Don't interupt or ask too many detailed questions if he starts to open up. Turn your phone off, a sudden text or call would break the spell if you manage to get things going. Let him know anything said by him to you will absolutely go no further than the two of you. Tell him you trust him to do the same because this is very important. Assure him nothing he says will make you angry, that you just love him and want to understand how he feels. I think it's time to ask him outright if he would find it easier if dad no longer shared your home.

It's important for a child to know someone is on their side and cares what they think.

I had such a moment with my brother once, not long before I moved out, and it made me feel better about it all. It was a rarity because she always tried to ensure I was never alone with my brother, I think because she was afraid I would talk and I did.

I don't think these bad situations that keep arising are down to you.

I think this is all your H. For whatever reason, he behaves destructively how he wants to and seems reluctant to make lasting changes.

I think you are trying to navigate your way across a cargo net of crap, trying to do the right thing for everyone while not really fully understanding why your H behaves the way he does because your mind just doesn't work that way. Sometimes you get it right, sometimes you get it wrong, it's hard. You sound like you try to be a good mum with kind measured responses to any bad behaviour but your H comes along and derails your efforts. He is actually undermining you instead of the other way round.

My brother was like you. He couldn't really understand why she was the way she was because he was nothing like that. He could get any child to do as he asked without having to try very hard at all. Never heard him shout once. She kept a fair bit of it for when he wasn't looking though and he found it difficult to believe she could be that nasty a lot of the time. She had him convinced she was just trying to make us strong people I think. Strangely, she would accuse him of trying to undermine her if he stepped in, which he did do sometimes. She used to give him shit for days whenever he criticised her methods.

Good luck to you. I have no doubt you will figure a way through.

There was domestic violence and my dad would lose his temper and hit us. She didn’t leave him until I was in my teens.

The more you wirte the more abusive he sounds and given your history - I'd be very worried that you don't see it like someone without that background would.

He’s blaming me still though.

As long as he refuses to take responsibility for what he is doing, you are never going to make progress, and he will continue to abuse the family.

He is enraged by your attempt to be a mediator.
You are so concerned by his behaviour that you believe a mediator is required.

The bottom line is that he is the problem here, and the question that begs is - what are you going to do about it?
Keep on treading water? Keep on trying to be a buffer between your son and his own father?

My father was a verbally abusive, bullying narcissist. My mother sort of protected us but not enough. My Father called us the entire spectrum of horrible names-moron, idiot, stupid, for the most minor "infractions" in his eyes from when we were small babies. My own grandparents witnessed it, didn't do a damn thing-neighbors, teachers everyone who came in contact with our family knew all of us children were emotionally and occasionally physically abused, but not enough to do anything. It was the 70s and 80s and there just apathy and indifference. Don't let your innocent child experience this hellacious family environment-it's brutal, and it leaves permanent scars on their psyche

You DM was absolutely right to call him on this. Your Son is being bullied, I don’t doubt he has been an nightmare before and occasionally now but you and his Dad are supposed to be his support, his safe space. Your DH lecturing him is going to destroy whatever is left of your DS confidence and you are standing by watching. If anytime spoke to my DS’ like that they be out on their arse after a warning.

@Excilente

the joy in leaving someone like that is knowing that the only relationship they're trashing, is their own with their DC's.

Ex and I have no court order, contact is negotiated between us.. i would have zero qualms about telling him the kids weren't coming the moment either of them voiced that they didn't want to go because they didnt want to deal with his shouty behaviour.

Likewise.

In the end, it doesn't matter a jot what your husband experienced as a child. His job now is to get his act together and to be a decent parent. If he can't do that, you're better off doing it on your own.

You'll have a quieter, more consistent, and less shouty home for starters.

Your mum is not the problem here.

he wants to pick up DS from school so DS doesn’t feel abandoned I said it would be better for me to collect him and see if he wants to see him which he has agreed to. DS last memory of him was him out of control with anger so he may not want to. It will be a public place and I’ll stay in the car so DS knows where I am. DH wants to repair and connect and say sorry

He’s blaming me still though. I’ve labelled it abuse and have told him it would be a referral to social services if it came up in a professional context. If I didn’t feel that I could protect DS from further harm I’d be calling them myself

Why would your son feel abandoned. More than likely when he sees his father in the car with his mother his heart will sink.
He isn’t old enough to be given this choice.

Please stop treating him like he is an adult. He is a little boy who shouldn’t be making these decisions.

It looks like you aren’t doing anything to protect your Ds, you are just taking your Dh’s side.
You are doing everything so you are not the one to say no to your Dh. His feelings and what he wants come first.

What if your Ds says he doesn’t want to see his father. Are you going to allow your Dh back in the house or are you going to tell Ds that his father is sorry and just wants to apologise and go back to playing happy families till the next time it happens, probably when your dm isn’t their to step in to protect her gc.

I haven't read all the posts and I don't have children, but reading through the OP's one thought occurs to me really strongly.

No one wins respect by demanding it, which is how your husband seems to expect. Respect always has to be worked for. It's the person with the respect to give who is the only one who can offer it. Your husband can demand the superficial appearance of respect but real respect is hard-won. The more someone screams and shouts about demanding respect, the more laughable and unhinged they seem. Think Captain Mainwaring in Dad's Army or similar. These lectures will be costing your husband respect points in your children's eyes.

But what do I know, I've never been a parent. But I have been a child — though fortunately my dad, who was in some ways insecure like your husband — didn't adopt your husband's way of parenting. Good luck.

There's a good quote from a parenting book the name of which escapes me which is that children repeat the behaviour that gets the most attention (good or bad). I think your approach sounds much healthier than your husbands and your mum might have done you a favour - essentially sticking up for your son. So your husband's basically sulking as the world is against him right now but that's tough. He is in the wrong. Three members of his family agree if your mum and his own mum have noticed it. I do think this frequent berating of a primary school child has to stop - after all, it's clearly not working is it and sounds like a miserable existence for a child, bullied all day and berated all evening. I agree home is where a child, especially a primary age one, is comforted and supported.

Reminds me of my dad. I remember being 8 and being aware he was a bit of a prick. Hasn't got any better. Just now I don't need to wait for some one to hopefully step in and stick up for me....(if they are brave enough)

Now I tell him exactly what I think. Whilst my mum still pussyfoots around giving him the look, then apparently has a talk with him and all is supposedly ok for a while. There's always a next time tho.

Of course this is always me causing trouble coz I answer back....

Please please don't ask your mum to appologise. Get your stuff in order and kick his sorry ass out.

Your H threw a tantrum and stormed off because a GP stood up for her grandchild, deflected blame onto you making them-self the victim and was so successful that you threw your child under the bus?

You are the victim. Your child is being used as a weapon. Only you can recognise your child's humanity at this point. Don't fail them. Is he saying I want to make things right and DC would want that? Don't dodge it. Speak to your DC. Ask them what they want and then say no with confidence. But don't put it all on them. And if they can't express what they want but it obvious, have confidence in your own parenting to say no.

Easier said than done. I tolerated abuse (blame self blame) but would leap in front of a flying bullet or deflect the rage of a bully for them. That's why they love and respect me now they are older. I had their back and got the hell out.

Oh no, can't believe you have agreed to his demands to pick up your son!! Even if u are there, you have given your child no choice and even if u ask him he will probably agree because you have brought the twat with you!! He won't want a scene or to feel pressured. Poor poor child

Your DH should be texting your DM to apologise to her. Your DC is your first priority, not your DH’s feelings.

I can't believe he is not sorry either! Does he shout at the men in his office too??? What a bully. You should have kept your husband away for the full week!!

If someone you love calls you beautiful 9 times and then calls you fat once. Which stays with you? Negativity always stays with someone, whether it’s an offhand comment or years of abuse from a father.

The fact he is blaming you and not sorry is a huge red flag to me. He comes across as a controlling, manipulative, abusive man who well and truly had you under the thumb before DM stuck up for DC.

If I were you I'd book a holiday and take some time to think things thru xx

Plenty more fish hun xx

PS Get your hair and nails done ( u will feel better) xx

Why would your son feel abandoned. More than likely when he sees his father in the car with his mother his heart will sink. He isn’t old enough to be given this choice.Please stop treating him like he is an adult. He is a little boy who shouldn’t be making these decisions. It looks like you aren’t doing anything to protect your Ds, you are just taking your Dh’s side.You are doing everything so you are not the one to say no to your Dh. His feelings and what he wants come first. What if your Ds says he doesn’t want to see his father. Are you going to allow your Dh back in the house or are you going to tell Ds that his father is sorry and just wants to apologise and go back to playing happy families till the next time it happens, probably when your dm isn’t their to step in to protect her gc.

Agree totally. This thread is starting to make me feel a bit sick to be honest.

OP if you are going to prioritise your horrible bully of a DH over your little boy, maybe it would be better if your DS went to live with his nan? She appears to be the only person in the family who has the will to protect him from abuse.

I would recommend you both do a parenting course together. Your local council should provide them - possibly online at the moment. If you can't find any, ask your school SENCO if they have links to one. It's possible that your DH's parenting style is over critical and strict but on the other hand you are good at empathising but not giving clear boundaries, so you could both do with someone neutral to give advice. Obviously it's important that you're both on the same page with the strategies you use. Good luck.

I’ve just read your whole thread and feel so sad for you and your DC.

Agree with various other PP that DH is abusive - he may not mean to be and he may genuinely think he’s right, but that’s no excuse. Him not recognising it doesn’t make it any less so. Just because he’s not abusive ALL of the time, doesn’t make it acceptable.

He is controlling and you are not undermining him - he is undermining your much healthier parenting approach.

why a parenting course?

Solihull parenting course is online and free just google it x

No one wins respect by demanding it
I agree, but I think what the husband really wants is deference, he wants to be acknowledged as the 'alpha'

Have you heard of the freedom course OP?

OP
Would you confirm what you meant Re DH calling DS names? What kind of names?
Your DH is annoyed at being called a fuckin psycho but cmon, you've been 8, how must it feel when a parent stoops to that level?
Is DS just modelling his DF behaviour?

Your last post, OP, mentions a lot of factors where you aren't perfect and need to work on yourself etc, almost inviting us to say 'ah well, if you're like that, then his behaviour is understandable. And of course it's all very well that you recognise areas in yourself aren't ideal. But what really strikes a dissonant note against all that is your constant concern, that's in evidence through all your posts, to placate, appease, manage your husband's feelings. Your original 'action plan' involved acceding to his outrageous demand (that you two vacate the house) in order to 'keep the peace', and even trying to get your mother to apologise to him. That tells me that he has you well-trained, tbh. As does your plan to speak to him in a 'kind but assertive' way.

Your little boy (and I repeat PPs as to how very little they really are at this age) sounds very mixed up. Some of his stubbornness and 'strong-willedness' will almost certainly be learned from his father - who is his role model for 'how men behave'. He will be puzzling over how, when he behaves like that, it doesn't win approval - his spirit doesn't sound yet quite broken enough (thank goodness) to understand that it's just a matter of acquiescing. But I fear he will learn that lesson from you sooner rather than later.
^This ^