S@“t has hit the fan. What would you do?

[Whotsithitthefan]

NC as outing. Long time poster.

I can’t sleep. DH had left. Sleeping in the car somewhere I think. DM here staying. DC being bullied at school and so is being a nightmare at home. Once he’s talked about what’s going on he’s fine but while he’s holding it all in, quite frankly, he’s a grumpy thug.

DH approach is long lectures. Reminding DC of past difficult behaviour. Criticising. Telling off. He takes it very personally when DC insults him or is rude to him. Won’t let it go.

I tend to try and listen first as there is always a context and then discuss the difficult behaviour once things are calm and I think DC can reflect.

Tonight DC was acting up. I stayed out of it as DH doesn’t like me taking over and finds it undermining if I offer a different approach. He wants me to back him up but I can’t because I feel like DC would then feel the whole world was against him/her and I don’t want to join in the critical lecture and when I do try and back DH up things just escalate anyway.

So I focused tonight on clearing up and left DH and DC to it. Meanwhile I don’t realise that DM is finding the way DH is talking to DC unbearable. She had told me earlier and I had a bit of a moan as I’m finding it hard.

I then hear really raised voices. DM shouting at DH that he is abusing DC with his criticism and domineering. She’s very upset. He’s really angry with her. DC joining in.

I stood between them and just repeated ‘time out’ over and over. DH kept going and going. When I kept saying time out DC would join in and told DH he’s a psycho. DH finally left and I managed to get DC calm and to sleep.

I’m in bed but can’t sleep as I can see it from all angles and have no clue what to do.

DC ‘full up’ emotionally and feeling particularly got at by DH. Deliberately pushes him because he knows he loses the plot and is testing him. The behaviours need addressing but also DC is a child and is overwhelmed at the moment.

DH is feeling blamed by me and unsupported by me. Feels like I get in the way of their relationship and turn DC against him because I’ll stick up for DC if I feel DH is out of order. I have been trying to stay out of it but it’s hard when it’s a child getting it in the neck. Tonight I stayed out of it apart from ‘time out’ when it was getting too heated. DH is sleeping in his car somewhere refusing to ever talk to my DM ever again. Wants us out of the house tomorrow at one point so he can change for work. Telling me I’m toxic and causing him MH issues (I can be quite critical to be fair) but I feel he’s the one whose being toxic to DC who should be the priority.

DM now in bits because she thinks she’s ‘ruined my life’.

Have today tried to be calm and have supported both DC and DM with their stuff. Feeling too cross with DH to support him much but am worried about him.

Feel like no one is supporting me. I hold the emotional stuff for them all but what about me? AIBU to wish there was someone in my life that was calm and steady to ‘hold’ things together.

How do I handle things tomorrow? I’ll have to do the school run so ‘brave face’ on. Then I know DM will be distraught. God knows if DH will get in touch.

Just needed to get this out and hope someone is awake and had some advice. I need to get some sleep.

It does strike me that for all your talking about parenting modes, etc (and your h appears also to be operationalising self-help/counselling language to try and pull you back into line), and revolving around your h's emotions and your parenting 'techniques', it was your mother who, entirely instinctively, it seems, did what your son needed. She didn't gaf about the effect on your h's fragile feelings. She said what she saw. I wonder if all the counselling-speak and emotional analysis (with your h's emotions among the main subjects thereof) is getting in the way, for you, of the much plainer and more disturbing view of this situation that a lot of us are picking up on?

You're right that you shouldn't gang up on dc with husband when he's asking for support. But if he takes the all guns blazing approach you should take a calmer approach and that doesn't mean going against what your partner says. I'd stay quiet and when partners calmer I'd make him understand dc is young and getting bullied.

Quit sharing anything with your mother. She shouldn't have got involved. If you want any relationship to work quit involving your mother. She's not going to apologise and you don't need to ask her.

I think you need to sit down and apologise to husband and tell him how u feel overwhelmed. I understand where you're coming from but I also get him. He probably felt like the whole world was against him.

DH is feeling blamed by me and unsupported by me. Feels like I get in the way of their relationship and turn DC against him because I’ll stick up for DC if I feel DH is out of order

I think Dh is the one turning his dc against him all by himself.
I have been in your child’s position. Bullied at school bullied at home. I ended up in care for a few weeks and it was the best time of my life. The freedom and the peace from having to be perfect was immense and I cried when I had to go home.

I eventually ended up walking away from the whole of my family. They could then find someone else to bully and blame for everything

The long rants about every little mistake you have made are not what adheres you to someone.
I think your Dh should go for counselling all on his own to get to the route of why he brings up every single mistake your dc has ever done and then expects a close relationship.

Unless your Dh is willing to work on his parenting style then I would walk away. Your Dh isn’t being a wonderful father he is being the complete opposite and all this is doing is storing up problems for the future.

If your dc thinks that home isn’t the safe space it should be then you have lost them. Friends and other adults who might not have their best interests at heart become their go to people for their safe space.
Anything you say falls on deaf ears

And I've worked out what bothers me about the standing between them shouting 'time out' - it very much suggests a view of your h and son as two equal combatants. Six of one and half a dozen of the other. Not a situation of a grown man trying to browbeat a small child beyond endurance.

@MitheringSunday very much agree with your posts at 13:25 and 13:28

@Whotsithitthefan if thats his attitude, then yes.. very much nail in coffin.

If he can't for one second look at this from anyone elses POV, and feels he is no way to blame for any of what happened, then i can't see a way back from this.. couples counselling with an abusive spouse will lead you to nowhere.

In your boots, i'd honestly pack him a bag while he's in the shower and tell him not to go to work, and find somewhere else to stay until he sorts himself out.

Ive been where you are op. Almost exactly the same scenario, but my ds is autistic. I'm afraid I had to end the relationship because it was a constant battleground, and he only ever saw his POV and has the underlying unshakable belief that kids should respect their elders at all times snd their feelings don't matter.

I feel for you. Things are better between them now we are divorced and contact is eow.

It sucks, but I couldn't stand by and allow my husband to beat my ds down emotionally, simply because he was too rigid to try a different approach.

You have my sympathies. It's awful

You've got a lot of support on here and I hope you can all sort out what's best for your DC

My exH used to rant at our DS. He'd shout at him if he cried, which only made him cry more. He called him names and sneered at him. If I intervened I was undermining him. In the end I would physically stand in between them to protect my son who at the time was a similar age to yours OP. Then I divorced him - it wasn't going to improve.

@Whotsithitthefan

Blimey. Just caught up with all of the replies. Thank you so much everyone for taking time to post. Even the critical ones. It’s helpful to hear all views.

FrancineSmith Thank you. That’s given me some hope.

A couple of things to clarify;

I do step in and stop DH if it’s getting too heated or lengthy. It’s caused arguments as he then feels undermined and blames this for the lack of respect DC shows him. It’s clearly much more than that. I’m not a weak or meek person. In fact I’m quite feisty. I stepped back recently because I thought may be DH was right. This thread has helped me realise that I’d lost my confidence in myself and actually i need to trust my instincts.

The move was a family decision. We all talked about it at length and all views were taken into account. It was a lifestyle choice rather than work and we wouldn’t have done it if everyone wasn’t up for it. The school seems good and they are taking action. DS was very pleased to see the main bully get thoroughly told off last week. DS only disclosed it the week before last so it’s eRly days. The kids in the after school clubs dont go to the same school.

It’s helpful to hear that these long laborious forced lectures are seen by the majority as being abusive or bullying. It’s helped me to feel more certain about it. I feel I’ve got MNs behind me when I tell him it’s not ok.

DS does push DH to the max. He knows the buttons to press. Not an excuse and actually this is typical in these situations as children try and figure out where the edges are. But I think that DH is a good parent (certainly wants to be) that is a bit depressed, had an unhealthy model of parenting himself and has got stuck in a cycle and is being very tested by DS. He wants to do it differently. I think last night will make it or it will break it. He’ll either turn it around or we will have to split. I’m ambivalent about that. I’d much rather a happy family unit but if it can’t be happy then it can’t be.

I haven’t posted before now. DH has never chased DS. That’s not me.

DS went into school fine this morning. A bit of resistance but it was mild. Had a nice peaceful morning. I checked in with him and he’s ok. I let the teacher know so they can keep an eye on how he’s doing.

I’m going to get nice pastries for breakfast and eat my emotions just for today, with a nice cuppa.

I’ve messaged DH. Didn’t want to talk as wanted to make sure my message was loud and clear and that I didn’t get sucked into a slanging match. I said that this has to NEVER happen again amongst other things.

I am overly critical and grumpy with him as I’m hormonal. He’s ground down by that. It’s not an excuse but it is something I need to work on. As well as being more consistent with boundaries.

I’ve been clear that I will not back him up when he lectures and that we need to either use the same relationship focused model of parenting or I need to do it on my own. I’m not being dramatic. That’s the case. I can’t parent how I want to if he’s being authoritarian.

I’m not a passive parent - try to be authoritative and manage it around 60/70% of the time I think. I need to up that to 90. I can swing into authoritarian particularly if that’s the mode DH is using. It’s catching but I don’t do the long lectures. I shout. However I’m more likely to slip into passive if anything - quite often that’s through exhaustion or I’ve become helpless in the face of DH authoritarian approach. That changes today.

Thanks so much for your time all. Those that have shown me empathy you have really helped me to feel better. Those that have challenged me you really helped me to get some clarity.

Sorry the jumbled post. Very tired!

Wishing you all health and happiness

There are things in this post that worry me. Calling names is bullying and abuse - if a neighbour did this then they wouldn’t even be an OK neighbour yet you say this man is a good parent. He isn’t.

OP, I think you need to be absolutely clear with yourself and your H that he is not to expect any kind of apology from your DM, for the very simple reason that she has done nowt wrong - as PPs have said, she was the only one fighting DS's corner last night. I would advise you to make it clear to your H that he must see this as his wake-up call and accept that he is entirely to blame for the current shit/fan situation.

I think it also says it all that both your own and your DH’s mother have said this behaviour is unacceptable so you need to stop accepting.

I think you need to sit down and apologise to husband and tell him how u feel overwhelmed. I understand where you're coming from but I also get him. He probably felt like the whole world was against him.

WTAF?

Why is the husband's ego more important that the child here?

DS does push DH to the max. He knows the buttons to press. Not an excuse and actually this is typical in these situations as children try and figure out where the edges are

It gets worse when they are teens and if they haven’t got the parental support and safe space to vent or challenge then it is only going to get worse.

Atm your child is very young. If a childish error/back chat can lead to the type of explosion that happened last night. Where does your Dh go if as a teen they do something a little or a lot worse.

The problem with exploding and ranting over the little things is a child gets used to it and knows even if they play truant, hold up a bank or decide to spend their teen age years face down in a ditch with a needle in their arm there is nothing more than the usual rant your Dh can do.

@MitheringSunday

And I've worked out what bothers me about the standing between them shouting 'time out' - it very much suggests a view of your h and son as two equal combatants. Six of one and half a dozen of the other. Not a situation of a grown man trying to browbeat a small child beyond endurance.

I interpreted it as the OP standing between her DM and DH shouting 'time out'? This may be a misunderstanding on my part though.

I have read through every post from the start. I am genuinely worried for your son. I have son's and I know my husband would not have been coming back for a shower!! FFS. Him just ignoring you and saying you are negging him shows he has no remorse or even an inkling that he is in the wrong! Your son is 8 or 9 ! Stand up for him and don't allow Bully's back in HIs safe home!

God op, he’s abusive to you, to your child, and no he’s not a good parent. What is he texting you that shit for about control? He’s a nasty bully

Please don’t blame your young son. What is he six, seven? He is blameless.

Your Nob head husband hasn't reflected on this at all has he? He has somehow assigned himself the role of victim, when he's the bully. I can't see him changing OP. My bullying dad died thinking he was right about everything, so... If you saw any possiblility of him changing, and I wonder if you're frightened of him, as he presumably bullies you too, I would be inclined to suggest he works on his many many many issues from a separate adress. I can't begin to tell you how bad it is to have a 'father' who shouts at you if you cry when you are being bullied. In our house it was 'cry and I'll hit you again'. Please protect your children and stop minimising the effect this arsehole is having on your child. I really hope DC isn't a girl. I learnt a lot about male violence this way, and carried it into abusive relationships. Although I now have an non abusive DH, I am still scarred by this, and made it an absolute priority to protect my DD, but it did mean divorcing her dad.

beigebrownblue

Thanks for the advice re the bullying.

faithfulbird20

That advice seems at odds with others on here. Do you have a particular lens you are looking through?

@faithfulbird20

You're right that you shouldn't gang up on dc with husband when he's asking for support. But if he takes the all guns blazing approach you should take a calmer approach and that doesn't mean going against what your partner says. I'd stay quiet and when partners calmer I'd make him understand dc is young and getting bullied.

Quit sharing anything with your mother. She shouldn't have got involved. If you want any relationship to work quit involving your mother. She's not going to apologise and you don't need to ask her.

I think you need to sit down and apologise to husband and tell him how u feel overwhelmed. I understand where you're coming from but I also get him. He probably felt like the whole world was against him.

Wtf! He’s abusive. No she should not apologise to him!

Op - I’m so sorry you’re going though this. I’ve been separated from my ex for 18 months. I thought I was feisty, it was only after I left that I realised I wasn’t anymore, I was desperately fighting to keep my head above water.
You probably can’t see it right now, but he is extremely emotionally abusive towards you and your dc.
I hope you get the help and support you need.

@faithfulbird20: apologise to a grown man shouting at a little boy? The only person who had a right to feel the world was against him was the DS. Apologising will open the door for even more abuse. Give your head a wobble.

@faithfulbird20

You're right that you shouldn't gang up on dc with husband when he's asking for support. But if he takes the all guns blazing approach you should take a calmer approach and that doesn't mean going against what your partner says. I'd stay quiet and when partners calmer I'd make him understand dc is young and getting bullied.

Quit sharing anything with your mother. She shouldn't have got involved. If you want any relationship to work quit involving your mother. She's not going to apologise and you don't need to ask her.

I think you need to sit down and apologise to husband and tell him how u feel overwhelmed. I understand where you're coming from but I also get him. He probably felt like the whole world was against him.

I disagree with virtually all of this, especially the bit about the op's mum. Do you know anything about the dynamics of abuse? Abusers love to cut you off from other family members and close friends. It makes you more reliant on them.

My son in law slipped up massively when he showed his true colours in front of me. If I hadn't seen that my daughter may still be with her abuser, depressed and with low self esteem. The things our daughter kept from us were jaw dropping and she only told us the true story when she knew it was time to leave.

The op has NOTHING to apologise for.

@Whotsithitthefan faithful is probably seeing some resemblance to certain ways they themselves (or their husband/father) behave, so is taking the side of the person in the wrong here.

I apologise for the perhaps overly critical tone of my posts earlier on today to you. As the child in this situation previously I think I may have been directing my anger for my passive mother on to you!

You sound like you are a thoughtful person and want the best for everyone. I’m glad you can see your husbands attempt at gaslighting for what it is, he is going to blame everyone except for himself for the situation you found yourself in last night.