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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

S@“t has hit the fan. What would you do?

410 replies

Whotsithitthefan · 21/06/2021 01:22

NC as outing. Long time poster.

I can’t sleep. DH had left. Sleeping in the car somewhere I think. DM here staying. DC being bullied at school and so is being a nightmare at home. Once he’s talked about what’s going on he’s fine but while he’s holding it all in, quite frankly, he’s a grumpy thug.

DH approach is long lectures. Reminding DC of past difficult behaviour. Criticising. Telling off. He takes it very personally when DC insults him or is rude to him. Won’t let it go.

I tend to try and listen first as there is always a context and then discuss the difficult behaviour once things are calm and I think DC can reflect.

Tonight DC was acting up. I stayed out of it as DH doesn’t like me taking over and finds it undermining if I offer a different approach. He wants me to back him up but I can’t because I feel like DC would then feel the whole world was against him/her and I don’t want to join in the critical lecture and when I do try and back DH up things just escalate anyway.

So I focused tonight on clearing up and left DH and DC to it. Meanwhile I don’t realise that DM is finding the way DH is talking to DC unbearable. She had told me earlier and I had a bit of a moan as I’m finding it hard.

I then hear really raised voices. DM shouting at DH that he is abusing DC with his criticism and domineering. She’s very upset. He’s really angry with her. DC joining in.

I stood between them and just repeated ‘time out’ over and over. DH kept going and going. When I kept saying time out DC would join in and told DH he’s a psycho. DH finally left and I managed to get DC calm and to sleep.

I’m in bed but can’t sleep as I can see it from all angles and have no clue what to do.

DC ‘full up’ emotionally and feeling particularly got at by DH. Deliberately pushes him because he knows he loses the plot and is testing him. The behaviours need addressing but also DC is a child and is overwhelmed at the moment.

DH is feeling blamed by me and unsupported by me. Feels like I get in the way of their relationship and turn DC against him because I’ll stick up for DC if I feel DH is out of order. I have been trying to stay out of it but it’s hard when it’s a child getting it in the neck. Tonight I stayed out of it apart from ‘time out’ when it was getting too heated. DH is sleeping in his car somewhere refusing to ever talk to my DM ever again. Wants us out of the house tomorrow at one point so he can change for work. Telling me I’m toxic and causing him MH issues (I can be quite critical to be fair) but I feel he’s the one whose being toxic to DC who should be the priority.

DM now in bits because she thinks she’s ‘ruined my life’.

Have today tried to be calm and have supported both DC and DM with their stuff. Feeling too cross with DH to support him much but am worried about him.

Feel like no one is supporting me. I hold the emotional stuff for them all but what about me? AIBU to wish there was someone in my life that was calm and steady to ‘hold’ things together.

How do I handle things tomorrow? I’ll have to do the school run so ‘brave face’ on. Then I know DM will be distraught. God knows if DH will get in touch.

Just needed to get this out and hope someone is awake and had some advice. I need to get some sleep.

OP posts:
SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 21/06/2021 14:37

You are selectively replying OP, and ignoring the fact that your OH is is no way sorry for his actions yesterday. You seem to be somewhat an apologist for him, which makes me sad. Don't play my mother in this scenario Sad

knittingaddict · 21/06/2021 14:37

@Whotsithitthefan

faithfulbird20

That advice seems at odds with others on here. Do you have a particular lens you are looking through?

It's the lens of a man pleaser with no experience of domestic abuse. It's safe to ignore that lone voice.
Whotsithitthefan · 21/06/2021 14:38

So DH came in, showered and left, he wants to pick up DS from school so DS doesn’t feel abandoned. I said it would be better for me to collect him and see if he wants to see him which he has agreed to. DS last memory of him was him out of control with anger so he may not want to. It will be a public place and I’ll stay in the car so DS knows where I am. DH wants to repair and connect and say sorry.

He’s blaming me still though. I’ve labelled it abuse and have told him it would be a referral to social services if it came up in a professional context. If I didn’t feel that I could protect DS from further harm I’d be calling them myself.

DM ok but is hand wringing and blaming herself. It’s brought it all back - I was always her support. A PP said I was in the role of peacekeeper and that was it. There was domestic violence and my dad would lose his temper and hit us. She didn’t leave him until I was in my teens. I think she is trying to make sure the same doesn’t happen here. It is reminding me why I don’t turn to her for support. It always ends up me supporting her and has since I was a teen. May be younger.

Re me saying DH is a good dad. He is 90% of the time. The 10% is really awful though. I don’t believe in good or bad anything or anyone. It’s more complex than that. He’s doing his best but at the same time this can’t keep happening. Just because I say he’s a good dad doesn’t mean I’m minimising. I’m fully on board with this being abusive at worst bullying at best. I just couldn’t see it before. It won’t happen again if I can help it.

OP posts:
GobletsOfFire · 21/06/2021 14:39

I've NC'd for this response too because given my previous posts under other usernames, I sort of may be recognised by a couple of people.

My mother died.
I was fifteen.
I went to live with my brother, his wife and their blended bunch of kids.

I have told stories about her before and other posters have sometimes been horrified by them.

Your husband is like her, exactly like her in many ways.
The constant criticism. The shouting. The screaming. The swearing. The name calling. The put/tear downs. The threats. The lectures. The sulking. The childishness. The claiming to be the victim because "everybody hates me...boo hoo hoo hoo". Expecting everyone to behave only as she saw fit or woe betide them. The nagging. The controlling. Example: she used to tear toilet roll into single squares, put them in a wicker basket in her bedroom. You had to ask her for some, telling her if it was piss or shit so she could determine whether to escort you to the bedroom to be handed one sheet or two. I have always had terrible constipation and had to scrape secret pennies together to buy laxative pills which I had to hide from her. She found them once and boy, was I in trouble for not seeking her permission to use them.
You see she was so in love with her own thinking that she expected to dictate how sloppy your shit was allowed to be in case you needed too much bog roll that SHE had to PAY FOR even though she had no money or job. Slapping, hitting, punching ocassionally when she was really frothing spittle. She shot her 16 year old son in the eye with a pellet handgun and could have blinded him if the pellet had not lodged in the corner flesh by a fluke, just because she was pissed off with him for holding it too much while she was frying chips in the same room. Punishments that fit her mood, not the infraction. Often there was no infraction, merely something very minor she could twist into one because she felt like having a pop because she had one on her already.

She would feed you things she knew you did not like and you would be in trouble for not eating it, mainly because she took it as a challenge to her authority if you did not like what she told you to like.
She made tinned pink salmon sandwiches once, sodden wet with malt vinegar which made the cheap nasty white sliced bread slimy and gross. I said, "no thank you, I don't like salmon" when offered one. Tinned salmon made me nauseous, always had. She screamed about how I was a lying little bitch because she had seen me eating it before at my mum's funeral, I bloody had not, before throwing some at me and smashing the rest of the platter full into the bin via the wall above it.

She would buy a big box of broken biscuits and provide a cup of tea to dip them in. You were fooled into thinking she was in a good mood. She was, that was until you took one more than the unspecified number she approved of and her face turned to thunder before she threw the rest away or backhanded the box up the kitchen tiles before storming off to loudly do important shit upstairs.

I was bullied badly by a group of girls at school. She had a go at me for it when she found out. Same if her own kids got bullied.

Life lived on eggshells. Absolutely excruciating. I was fifteen to seventeen during all this. It fucked me up for life in many ways. God alone knows what it would have done to me if I had been of primary school age.

You used to only relax if she went out, though you were still afraid one of the neighbours might report on you to her. Your fucking arsehole would pucker and your chest tighten if you thought you heard the sound of my brothers car engine approaching the drive. Your heart would sink into your boots if you were correct, the second you heard the car door shut. I occasionally started shaking when the key was heard in the lock because one of the other kids had misbehaved and it was obvious she would find out and we were all in for it.

She was a vicious spiteful fucking monster, an absolute and utter mother fucking cunt.

I fucking hated her and still do, even though she died. Died alone I might add as all her kids, step kids and grandkids wanted fuck all to do with her well before the end. They only tolerated her till my brother passed so they could be around him. After he passed, everyone fell away very quickly.

I hate her so much I would quite happily dance and piss on her grave, that is, if there had been anyone left out of a family of dozens of children and grandchildren who would have been willing to contribute financially to one or would bother to visit it. Don't know what happened to her ashes even, hopefully someone deservedly sprinkled them on the grass of the nearest dog walkers toilet.

That's my experience. It's very personal and painful but I have told it because I feel for your child and you if your husband is one tenth of this and it does sound like he is. I want you to know how it bruises you inside as a childand in such a lasting way.

Throw him out. Leave yourself. Whichever. You have the funds to survive, by the sounds of it, without the constant stress he provides so free yourself and put your child first.

Whotsithitthefan · 21/06/2021 14:43

Deathsquito

Thank you so much for your apology and openness. Sorry you had a rubbish time as a child. Flowers

OP posts:
knittingaddict · 21/06/2021 14:43

It's a hard thing to say op, but perhaps your mum is hand wringing because your first thought was to blame her, when you should have at least understood why she stood up for your child.

It's fairly obvious that you spent the time between the event and when you posted on here unhappy about what your mum did. I'm sure she picked up on that, even if you didn't challenge her directly. I feel sorry for her.

thecatfromjapan · 21/06/2021 14:45

Oh, OP.

You know, I did wonder if it was just your DH that had a background of poor parenting. ☹️

You know that's an issue, don't you? It means your own boundaries need a bit of examination. And what you think is good, or normal, male behaviour.

You really need to talk about this with your counsellor.

Whotsithitthefan · 21/06/2021 14:46

GobletsOfFire

Thank you for sharing that. So sorry you had to go through that. No child deserves to be treated that way.

Please know that for my DS this stops today.

OP posts:
Whotsithitthefan · 21/06/2021 14:48

thecatfromjapan

I do know. I think it’s why I fall towards passive when I’m not well resourced. I keep the peace. Keep things level. Try not to rock the boat. I’ve had therapy and know myself fairly well but there is always more to learn like the blind spot with DH behaviour. It was the norm for me.

OP posts:
TatianaBis · 21/06/2021 14:49

He’s blaming me still though. I’ve labelled it abuse and have told him it would be a referral to social services if it came up in a professional context. If I didn’t feel that I could protect DS from further harm I’d be calling them myself.

It is abuse. You cannot protect DS from further harm just as you did not protect him yesterday. The only way to truly protect DS is to get him away from this abusive bully.

I see you’re repeating the pattern of your childhood with an abusive father.

To say DH ok apart from 10% of the time is missing the point: it’s that 10% that defines the relationship as abusive. And if you were brutally honest with yourself it’s way more than 10%.

Sometimesfraught82 · 21/06/2021 14:51

I come from a long line of critical women (DM included) and it’s hard to not get into that mode.

DM is no angel then.

Does she criticise you in front of your DH or DC?

GobletsOfFire · 21/06/2021 14:52

Oh, and she would have been labeled a good parent in many many ways but the fact remains, the bad parts badly harmed any child she held power over.

You can kiss and hug and buy gifts and feed the nicest bestest chocolates in all the world. If you follow that with shouting abuse, it turns all that nice stuff into absolute shit. In fact it's worse than being mistreated 100 percent of the time because it lulls you in to thinking things might be getting better. Classic abuser trait, abuser giveth then abuser taketh away.

Anyway, I am going to NC back and have a little cry now.

ChelleV · 21/06/2021 14:54

I want to talk as someone whose parent was lovely 90% of the time.

The 10% she was aggressive broke me so much that I ended up in a cycle of abusive relationships, because that's how someone who loved me treated me, and it was normalised by people who didn't stand up for me when they should've. I never let anyone know when I was struggling at school after it was turned around and made to be my fault, for not trying harder, or for being selfish, etc. If those are the responses you get to struggling, you internalise that response. It hurts, and long term.

He isn't reacting appropriate for the child's age. Pure and simple. Hell, I wouldn't even approach an adult like that.

Sure, mum didn't react appropriately, but I'm pretty sure your son appreciated having someone confirm that being treated that was isn't right. It does sound like you're aware that maybe better boundaries or less of her depending on you is definitely needed too though, so I know you're in a really difficult situation.

Blossomtoes · 21/06/2021 14:58

Oh @GobletsOfFire, there are no words. I’m so sorry you had to endure that. And while you were in the depths of grief for your mum too. 💐

Gamingiskillingmymarriage · 21/06/2021 15:10

I’m not sure 🤔 whether I read it here or elsewhere but the saying “shit covered in sprinkles is still shit” springs to mind.

HyacynthBucket · 21/06/2021 15:14

GobletsofFire
So brave of you to write this. May you find a way to leave this stuff behind and find peace. Take care of yourself. Flowers

Whotsithitthefan · 21/06/2021 15:27

GobletsOfFire

Thank you for sharing. It is helpful. So sorry you went through all that. Flowers

OP posts:
justasking111 · 21/06/2021 15:36

So your DM MIL and the counselor think your DH is way out of line treating a primary aged child as he does?'

AllieBallyBee · 21/06/2021 15:37

I don't like seeing how you're tying yourself up in knots trying to create an acceptable narrative for your husband's behaviour (even blaming yourself - "your hormones" etc...) or going over your mum's behaviour, or your son's. He's a primary aged child. Your husband is 100% the problem here.

He just sounds like an overbearing bully and he IS being abusive to your son. That 10% line is a nonsense. If I'm lovely to my husband but once a month I punch him in the face what would you say I was being?

You come across as very bright and articulate and always reflecting and thinking things through (perhaps over-thinking? I do that). The danger with over-thinking is that you can end up explaining and rationalising away bad behaviour. You can also over-think until you can't see the wood from the trees/right from wrong any more.

I come from a home with an overbearing, raging father and it trashes you. Myself and my siblings have - in different ways - a complete inability to deal with any conflict in a healthy way. Still to this day I go silent and start crying and hide away. It's my default, even at nearly 50 years old. I've worked really hard to get better at it, but it's really hard.

There's a lot of really good advice and experiences on this thread. I'd encourage you to read over the ones with similar experiences and talk what's happened over with your counsellor. My mum never left my dad, so I don't know what it's like in terms of how you recover if your mum is able to do that. So I don't have any happy outcome to share, unfortunately.

pointythings · 21/06/2021 15:41

I'm glad that you're seeing 90% lovely isn't good enough. It's the old adage - would you eat the delicious sandwich if you knew there was 10% shit in it?

Hang on to your strength now that you've found it.

Excilente · 21/06/2021 15:45

the joy in leaving someone like that is knowing that the only relationship they're trashing, is their own with their DC's.

Ex and I have no court order, contact is negotiated between us.. i would have zero qualms about telling him the kids weren't coming the moment either of them voiced that they didn't want to go because they didnt want to deal with his shouty behaviour.

ScrollingLeaves · 21/06/2021 15:47

“GobletsOfFire”
I am so sorry your mother died when you were only 15 and that you had to live with this horror💐

Tubs11 · 21/06/2021 15:55

You both need to sit down and agree a parenting plan together. You are both creating a toxic environment for your DC where one parent is pitted against the other and that is far from healthy!

moanymyrtle · 21/06/2021 16:00

My ex had similar parenting approach once the kids were older and answered back. He had a similar childhood. I agree he wanted to be a different parent than he had had but he found this more difficult the older the kids were. He eventually admitted he didn’t enjoy parenting he loves the kids but he’s quite a solitary self contained person with lots of his own interests which he resented giving up - he wasn’t close to his parents so this started from an early age - and he just didn’t enjoy the relentless grind of parenting. It was quite brave for him to admit that and it made a lot of other stuff that was going on make sense. We split for various reasons but the final straw was the impact his moods had on me and the dc and that dc were copying him and also being very aggressive in way spoke to me. He is a better part time non resident parent. I thought I was part of the problem too but now he’s not here me and dc rock along with few issues and they are good kids he just got excessively stressed and angry about normal kid stuff. Obviously no one wants to end a marriage but it was right decision. I often see posts here about broken families but my family isn’t broken. The dc are doing well and most of time we co-parent well even if I do 90% that’s how I like it. we aren’t living in a war zone anymore. When DC do see him everyone is on best behaviour as it’s for short chunks of time and while that’s a bit artificial from my point of view it is a positive and loving relationship - when he lived here it felt very negative. My single parent household is calm and happy. I just wanted to give you a perspective that sometimes going your separate ways is good for everyone. My ex lives on his own and has a gf and does his hobbies and is much happier now the kids fit into his life rather than his life fitting round the kids.

WheresMyTweezers · 21/06/2021 16:02

I hate to seem like I'm having a go at you OP as I think you've been very brave opening your life up like this, but:

DM ok but is hand wringing and blaming herself. It’s brought it all back - I was always her support. A PP said I was in the role of peacekeeper and that was it. There was domestic violence and my dad would lose his temper and hit us. She didn’t leave him until I was in my teens. I think she is trying to make sure the same doesn’t happen here. It is reminding me why I don’t turn to her for support. It always ends up me supporting her and has since I was a teen. May be younger.

This paragraph is so revealing in so many ways. You're used to being around a domineering, bullying man but I suspect because there's no violence in your house (at least you haven't mentioned any) you don't see your husband's behaviour for what it is.

Your attitude to your mother probably needs some unpicking at some point. You've called her critical earlier in the thread - well I'd be critical of a man who raised his hands to me or my children! You say you don't turn to her for support as you end up supporting her - that seems a very odd take on what you've described. You were going to ask your mother to apologise for standing up to your husband when he was bullying your very young child. That's not turning to her for support! I imagine she carries a lot of guilt for what you were exposed to - especially now she can see you have ended up with a man who also bullies you. I suspect you also harbour resentment to her for what you were exposed to. Those are huge issues and maybe clouding your judgement - a red herring maybe - about your husband acting terribly, your mother (no stranger to abusive men) called him out and you seemed to be concerned with your husbands feelings above anything else.

I honestly really feel for you - the situation must be exhausting, plus the barrage of opinions on here too. I won't comment again as I'm not sure I'm adding anything.