To feel a bit sad for my DS 16

[MagnificentBottom]

My DS 16, just left school. He’s not academic, didn’t like school or get particularly good exam grades, messed around a lot, hung around with the more ‘spirited’, but he’s essentially a good person who has a good heart. His girlfriend is very bright, just got great GCSE results and this weekend her friend organised a party to celebrate leaving school.
My DS was not invited, when she asked why she was told it was because he was in the wrong ‘friendship group’ and others felt intimidated by his presence. She also said that people generally when they see him deliberately walk on the other side of the road to avoid him. He’s tall, wears hoodies and a base ball cap. AIBU to think this is incredibly petty or are teenagers generally this fickle?

Well she’s good at school but she’s really not a great influence outside of that

Better influence than the petty crims he hangs with. And quite frankly her mother has got more reason for concern op.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

The job in dad's company actually explains everything.

I taught boys like this. Nice deep down but an absolute nightmare in class - not mean types but so incredibly disengaged and loud and disruptive and mocking towards anyone (especially other boys, often feeling girls are a different species and therefore allowed a bit of leeway to be swots because who knows what girls are thinking) who actually wants to work.

Knowing that they have a job in the family business no matter how badly they fail their exams combined with not being naturally academic is exactly why they're like this. They may be nice at heart but they are so infuriatingly cocky and really spoil things for those of their peers who aren't exactly like them.

Uncomfortable to read but very true. I recognise the characters you are describing. They are not few and far between either.

The problem is with 'got a job in his dad's business' is, that it breeds a type of person.

But also that often people in the company don't respect them. Even if he legitimately earned the earned the place, people won't think he did. He could be the best employee, but people will always think of him as being a given a job because he is the bosses son. Especially, if he hasn't had any other work.

Given, everything else, he may not be very happy there.

Unless op means something like his dad is a plasterer working alone and her son is going to train with the dad. If there's other employees, it often isn't great.

When I was at university there were some very privileged students there with guaranteed jobs at family firms. They messed around, obnoxious and made sure everyone knew daddy was CEO of X company.

OP best thing you can do for your ds is to encourage him to join an apprenticeship scheme. He'll learn a trade at an independent firm, get qualified and develop independence. This will help him mature and make sensible lifestyle choices & hopefully decent friends.

The girlfriend's friend is the host
The girlfriend's friend likes him
But he's not invited because others going don't like him
If it was my party, I would make my choice based on the people I like not based on other people's opinions
I know they're only sixteen but if I were the girlfriend in this situation it would put me in an awkward situation having my boyfriend excluded because someone didn't like him and it wasn't even their party. If he and the friend didn't get on then fair enough but that's not the situation here

Ah, you're in the IOM

@Newkitchen123

The girlfriend's friend is the host The girlfriend's friend likes him But he's not invited because others going don't like him If it was my party, I would make my choice based on the people I like not based on other people's opinions I know they're only sixteen but if I were the girlfriend in this situation it would put me in an awkward situation having my boyfriend excluded because someone didn't like him and it wasn't even their party. If he and the friend didn't get on then fair enough but that's not the situation here

So you would invite one person who You knew the rest of the group didn't like and make them uncomfortable.

You sound like a terrible host tbh.

www.gov.uk/apply-apprenticeship

Get him to apply for an apprenticeship & earn a place in societ himself instead of piggy backing on his dad's hardwork.

@vegas888

All those people complaining about weed and it being a drug, I assume you neither smoke, drink or take prescription drugs. Look at hospital admissions for alcohol and smoking related illnesses and then look at the same for weed.

I wouldn’t be impressed if my 16 year old was smoking and drinking on a weekly basis either, but they wouldn’t run the risk of being done for possession with intent to supply if the police caught them with 20 Marlborough Lights, and neither would they be buying them from drug dealers. The actual harm is not really the point. I have lived in countries where weed was legal, and my opinion would be different if we still lived there (still not happy, but closer to my opinion on smoking tobacco).

@zerofuchsgiven
Maybe I'm just too old to remember what it feels like being 16 but as an adult I'd invite them all and then let everyone decide what to do for themselves. Particularly if this was someone I liked myself, which the OP has stated is the case

Newkitchen123 the boy's mum thinks his girlfriend's friend likes her son. The boy asked his girlfriend "doesn't Alice like me then?" His girlfriend said "of course Alice thinks you're great, but you're so tall and confident and such a lad, such a laugh, some of her nerdy swot boy mates are intimidated by you - you understand, you sexy bad boy you"

Or something - I'm aware I completely made that up

Or the girlfriend asked her mate "don't you like my boyfriend then? Why isn't he invited?" and her mate said "um, er, oh of course you know I think he's great, its some of the others are a bit intimidated by him - I know he's great... You understand?"

The boy's mum genuinely believing that her son's girlfriend's friend likes her son, doesn't actually mean that her son's girlfriend's friend actually likes her son and wishes she could invite him to her party...

All those people complaining about weed and it being a drug, I assume you neither smoke, drink or take prescription drugs. Look at hospital admissions for alcohol and smoking related illnesses and then look at the same for weed.

I think me, as a consenting adult choosing to legally drink alcohol in moderation, or taking medication on prescription cannot be compared to a 16 year old child smoking an illegal drug.

You must be able to see the difference?

All those people complaining about weed and it being a drug, I assume you neither smoke, drink or take prescription drugs. Look at hospital admissions for alcohol and smoking related illnesses and then look at the same for weed.

Alcohol and smoking is legal as are prescription drugs, because they are, ya know, prescribed by medical professionals. Cannabis is a class B drug.

That’s the difference.

It sounds like they're moving in different circles already, she has done well in exams her friends attending the party have too , so it's prob going to fizzle out pretty quickly. We can't all be academic but teens like to hang out with a group all on the same page. There will be reasons people find him intimidating, as a hoodie & baseball cap are pretty bog standard. There's probably things gone on that you haven't found out about, for whatever reasons.

@Lulola

All those people complaining about weed and it being a drug, I assume you neither smoke, drink or take prescription drugs. Look at hospital admissions for alcohol and smoking related illnesses and then look at the same for weed.

I think me, as a consenting adult choosing to legally drink alcohol in moderation, or taking medication on prescription cannot be compared to a 16 year old child smoking an illegal drug.

You must be able to see the difference?

This, what an odd comment, someone comparing a child taking illegal drugs to adults smoking drinking or taking prescription meds within the confines of the law.

It’s like saying why you kicking off about my sixteen year old driving unlicensed. Don’t you drive?

Op I think what would concern me, if I’m honest, is that he will now have more disposable income. I get he’s only sticking labels on stuff and packing at his dads company but I assume he’s getting paid something,

I’d be worried he will use that money to get himself into more trouble, drink, drugs, no need to study, doing simple simple work and having more disposable income than his 16 year old friends,.. for some lads already on the wrong path that’s a recipe for disaster.

Is he paying board? Saving? Personally I think this is the period the risk comes in.

@Bluntness100

Op I think what would concern me, if I’m honest, is that he will now have more disposable income. I get he’s only sticking labels on stuff and packing at his dads company but I assume he’s getting paid something,

I’d be worried he will use that money to get himself into more trouble, drink, drugs, no need to study, doing simple simple work and having more disposable income than his 16 year old friends,.. for some lads already on the wrong path that’s a recipe for disaster.

Is he paying board? Saving? Personally I think this is the period the risk comes in.

Yes I am worried about him having his own money, although I’m not sure I’d say he’s on the wrong path. He has made mistakes and certainly the weed smoking concerns me but the real ‘wrong crowd’ who are always in trouble with the police, he doesn’t seem to hang around with anymore thankfully.

As I previously mentioned he does have a wide circle of friends, two close friends he sees frequently at the moment, one is a neighbours son, the other also lives close by. They’ve known each other since primary and I kind of know the parents, they’re both from nice, caring families, one works the other is studying in college.

He’s pretty good with letting me know where he is and we do have a good relationship at the moment which I am grateful as we didn’t a few years back when we were having problems with him at school.

Every time I speak to him about smoking which is quite often he just shrugs and acts like it’s no big deal (although it obviously is), insisting that ‘everyone does it’ ‘even the good kids who are going to college’. Then tells me that it’s better that I know, as most people he says the parents have no idea.

He doesn’t earn that much, most of his wages go on KFC, dominoes and he’s generous, buys things for his gf. The main reason we’ve got him a job is he was clearly struggling at school and to try and give him some responsibility to hopefully prepare him a bit more for being a ‘grown up’. Of course, it may not work out, he may want to get a job elsewhere (although I doubt anyone else would employ him 😂), or resit exams go to college- who knows? When he’s working more hours and has a ‘proper wage’, he will then be expected to save and / or contribute financially to the household.

To be honest I’m not really sure what I can be doing other than regularly trying to talk to him to keep communication open and encourage him to make good decisions and steer him in the right direction.

It does worry me a great deal, I just keep hoping things will work out and be ok.

Op I feel for you. My brother went off the rails at that age, same stuff, smoking weed and shop lifting, to be honest it didn’t get better, he graduated to hard drugs then dealing. Which is why I posted about your son suddenly having more money than his peers..

Hopefully with the right guidance he comes good and this is just a phase, working with his father possibly helps. More over sight. And if he’s got some decent friends, and his girlfriend seems to have her head screwed on, he may well turn it round, 💐

Her female friends actually really like DS, the issue was because of others boys feeling intimidated by my DS not the girls

I work in a secondary school and I would guess from this that your son was one of the louder, more argumentative boys at school? I see it quite a lot that they don’t necessarily outright bully other boys at school but their ‘banter’ and stupid jokes aimed at some of the quieter, more academic boys can be quite intimidating to them and they are very obviously humiliated by the comments.

Obviously it is a form of bullying but because it’s done as ‘banter’ then they seem to get away with it and think the other boys ‘can’t take a joke’. But it’s still mean.

I would be having a conversation with him about the way he treats other boys who aren’t as loud or ‘laddish’ as him and how he will need to adjust his behaviour towards them, not take the piss like he would his mates.

The main reason we’ve got him a job is he was clearly struggling at school and to try and give him some responsibility to hopefully prepare him a bit more for being a ‘grown up’. Of course, it may not work out, he may want to get a job elsewhere (although I doubt anyone else would employ him 😂), or resit exams go to college- who knows? When he’s working more hours and has a ‘proper wage’, he will then be expected to save and / or contribute financially to the household.

Walking into a job created for him by family members is not going to teach him much other than ‘I can dick around all I like - Momma and Dadda will see me right’

When it comes to jobs, people have to work hard to get their foot in the door. They apply, write application letters, have interviews, get rejected, try again... Your little Prince gets it handed to him on a plate without working for it.
I don’t think you’re teaching him to be more responsible or grown up at all.

But yes, I feel for you too and I genuinely mean that. What you’re doing is damage limitation.

@Bluntness100

Op I feel for you. My brother went off the rails at that age, same stuff, smoking weed and shop lifting, to be honest it didn’t get better, he graduated to hard drugs then dealing. Which is why I posted about your son suddenly having more money than his peers..

Hopefully with the right guidance he comes good and this is just a phase, working with his father possibly helps. More over sight. And if he’s got some decent friends, and his girlfriend seems to have her head screwed on, he may well turn it round, 💐

Thank you, I certainly hope so. He’s been best friends with his girlfriend since they were 12 so they’re quite close. She is bright and sensible and has a place in college. She wants to be a vet. Although she also smokes an occasional bit of weed and has a few drinks here and there, it’s more typical teenage stuff. She’s got her head screwed on so overall I guess she’s a pretty good influence.

I have also spoken about my concerns about dealing and taking harder drugs. He has assured me that he’s not interested in either dealing or taking harder drugs, I believe him, I think I would know if he was lying as he’s not a good liar and there would also be signs which I know to look for.

How are things with your brother?

@Babynames2

Her female friends actually really like DS, the issue was because of others boys feeling intimidated by my DS not the girls

I work in a secondary school and I would guess from this that your son was one of the louder, more argumentative boys at school? I see it quite a lot that they don’t necessarily outright bully other boys at school but their ‘banter’ and stupid jokes aimed at some of the quieter, more academic boys can be quite intimidating to them and they are very obviously humiliated by the comments.

Obviously it is a form of bullying but because it’s done as ‘banter’ then they seem to get away with it and think the other boys ‘can’t take a joke’. But it’s still mean.

I would be having a conversation with him about the way he treats other boys who aren’t as loud or ‘laddish’ as him and how he will need to adjust his behaviour towards them, not take the piss like he would his mates.

Not really no, in school he was someone who used to find the banter and loud comments difficult to tolerate. He suffered greatly from anxiety and would have outbursts because certain things like this would trigger him.

He used to get in trouble because he would hate this so much (or any bullying) he would intervene and end up making matters worst.

Are you usually this judgemental?

Leaving aside all of the hyperbole about prison, I'd say it's quite likely that OP's ds's gf's mate's 😆 parents may be deciding the guestlist cutoff.

My 15yo dd is wanting to have an end of y10 party next week (not UK so we're done for the year, hurrah!).

She's thinking a dozen chums hanging out around the pool, Alexa blaring out feel good hits of the summer, a huge pizza order & anyone who wants to crashing on sofas or in tents.

Fine, sounds lovely.

My rules are:

1. no booze (I won't be too shocked if some gets discreetly sneaked in, but if I'm phoning someone's mum at midnight to say their dd is plastered, it won't have happened with my condoning it or providing the vodka!)
2. sleepover guests get a parent to text me & confirm this is ok.

and 3) there's a guestlist. No random boyfriends, girlfriends, or other additions that dd hasn't specifically invited. I've allowed her to ask up to 20 but she reckons 12 should be enough.

So if dd came to me & said 'X wants to bring her boyfriend. Not everyone I've already invited likes him, tbh, he's a pain in the arse at school & some people find him intimidating & he's got some dodgy mates', then my response would be 100% 'Tell X he can't come, you're maxed out on invitees, & if you need to, I'm the bad guy - say I won't let him come, because it's only for friends of yours I've personally approved because I'm an evil fun sponge.'

It's really not because your ds is tall or wears hoodies. My 17yo is 6'3 & looks like he should be running protection for Draco Malfoy, & he's yet to be excluded from a party for it.

It's either because he's simply unknown to the host parents who are running a tight ship, in which case you've nothing to worry about.

Or it's because his girlfriend's mates think he's an arse because of his behaviour, based on 5 years of putting up with it, or his reputation with other parents precedes him - in which case, he does need to take it as a wake up call.