I was 15 he was 23

[Blissbiz]

I was 15 he was 23 and was my "boyfriend" for about 3 or 4 months although thinking back he was obviously sleeping with other people.
He is famous now, really famous and in the media alot.He didn't force me, actually I was flattered but now I can't stop thinking about it. My daughter is now 15 and I can't imagine her with someone this age or why he would want to be with her!
Do I need to just forget about it and move on, he doesn't come across as creepy or sleazy, quite the opposite in interviews but I'm struggling to see him without feeling angry.

None of us know what posters go through but if you want honest opinions, it’s a good idea to try to convey the whole picture. Age on its own doesn’t paint the whole picture. Bullying behaviour says much more than age alone.

@Blissbiz

I remember after my first time with him, I was nervous and hurt, he said he would mark me a grade E but would get me up to an A. Why I didn't kick him in the bollocks and walk out I have no idea. I cringed at the time but its so humiliating when I think about it.

Oh goodness, I recognise that attitude. I was often the subject of 'put down' remarks and that was so cruel to a young girl who really knew very little.

Other posters are right; we didn't recognise any of that as 'abuse'. Would you believe I had a liaison with a guy of 36 and that was, by anyone's standards, abuse but when it was discovered it was me who was blamed.

Thing is what OP has described would be abusive if she was 40 and he was also 40. So it’s unsurprising that you feel strongly. Do what you have to do OP. If this is how he behaved it’s unlikely he’s changed,

Oh and the Diana thing was absolutely Ick, even then when I was 16.

Me and my friends felt pity for her.

@MadMadMadamMim

I'm another one here who was dating guys in their 20s when I was in my teens. Lots of my mates were. And the 'men' weren't sophisticated, educated and mature, to be honest. They were lads a few years older than us at school - most of whom still lived with their mums. They weren't creepy older men looking for young girls.

I saw and see absolutely nothing wrong with it. I'm not traumatised and if you weren't bothered at the time I can't see the problem.

Because how your situation played out, is exactly the same for all?! Don’t be stupid. Just because it was all fine for you, doesn’t mean it was for everyone.

@billy1966

I suppose it might have been acceptable in some areas but it certainly wasn't in mine.

At 15, myself and the overwhelming majority of my school year didn't have boyfriend's, though we were definitely aware of boys!

When some did when they were 16/17/18 the boys were always within a year or two.

We were not particularly innocent I think, because we certainly would have known any guys 5-10 years older that would sniff around teens, are creeps.

Thankfully we all would have come from homes where parents would have been rightfully appalled and would have stopped it, I have NO doubt.

I think vulnerable girls were, and are, susceptible to these predatory types that either can't form a relationship with a peer, are controlling, want to appear worldly, or just simply like young girls.

IMO it is ALWAYS creepy, and no parent with a functioning brain, now, or 40 years ago, would have found it acceptable.

OP, I can well imagine you have the Ick looking back.

15 year olds now are far more clued in and yet it still would be wholly unacceptable.

The imbalance is certainly not in a 15 year olds interest.

The difference in maturity between 15 and 20 is simply enormous.

40 years ago involved, caring parents may not have know the shit the church was up to etc., but they knew 15 year old girls should not be intimate with 23 year olds.🙄

Suggesting otherwise is a cop out IMO.

What a condescending load of bollocks.

I'm male and was 16 in 1988 and can say that any man going out with a girl significantly younger than him in the late 80's and 90's was seen as creepy by the majority of men - they would have been pulled up on it at the time in my friendship groups for sure.

It was as bad then as it is now.

I remember being disgusted by the Bill Wyman/Mandy Smith relationship in the 1980's. He was in his forties.

According to Mandy she was 13 when they met and 14 when they started having sex.

Do you feel like this because he is famous now, or would you feel exactly the same way if he was an anonymous member of the general public?

You need to decide what to do, if anything, and you really need to disregard his current high profile when you are making the decision, and not let it influence your feelings. Just because he's famous doesn't mean he should be treated differently from someone else.

[quote Benjispruce3]@CheesyWeez is right. When you left school at 15/16 and were working, you felt and were perceived as an adult. It absolutely was different and nothing like child sexual abuse of a 4 year old. The latest post changes things though, this doesn’t sound like a caring relationship.[/quote]
@benjispruce3 I am asking you this very politely as I don't want to start a fight or derail the thread.
Please could you consider not minimalising my experience just because it doesn't fit with your narrative?
Would people feel more comfortable if I put a 1 I front of that 4?
I was 12 when the abuse stopped and it led me to make extremely questionable choices in who I "dated."
At 14 I was having relationships with older men and was basically passed around until I was 17. I managed to wise up after trying to commit suicide. Obviously people's experiences differ but this happened to me and it was so, so wrong. There is an age of consent for a reason.

One of my close childhood friends told me about her first BF. She was 15 and he was mid 40s, she was smitten with him, he was the landlord at the local pub and she lost her virginity to him in the betting shop toilets, I was horrified, but she thought it was a big romance! She fell pregnant with him and her parents disowned her. She is now a happily married lady in her 50s but that early 'relationship' was clearly wrong

@agododopushpineapple

However I’m getting irritated by women on this thread who very evidently were NOT around in the 80’s/90’s telling other women how they should feel about their teenage relationships and calling them paedophile apologists for saying they are fine with their experiences.

I agree that people are not understanding that just saying 'social attitudes have changed' or that our experiences weren't coerced means we are condoning paedophilia. That's offensive .

Social attitudes and the law HAVE changed. Leaving school young to get a job, moving out of family home, being independent much younger was much more common even 20 years ago. We have extended childhood in the past few decades. The legal age for marriage was 14 for males and 12 for females until 1929 (when it was raised to 16). It was only 1991 that a man was first convicted in the UK for marital rape for god's sake, and 2003 when it was put properly enshrined in law as an offence.

In this situation 15 was legally underage so it was wrong in that sense but those arguing 16 /17/18 would still be 'ick' are working from a different moral sense here. I accept not everyone will agree with me on that and I may now be called a paedo apologist again.

On the other hand the OP obviously has issues with her experience and is reflecting on it now through the lens of her older self. That's why I mentioned the Laura Dern movie (which is undeniably sexual abuse to older modern eyes but the main character even as an adult did not see it as that for a very very long time).

What he did in 'rating' her performance is disrespectful and revolting irrespective of her age, but obviously worse when young and it's your first time/inexperienced. Is this more about her was an awful person than the age gap?

As for telling her to report it now. The OP has every right to decide to do so if she genuinely now sees the relationships as abusive and really feels that is the right course of action for her now. But she has no obligation to do anything formal if not, even if he has continued to pursue underage girls, that responsibility and guilt is not on her. I hate it when people tell rape victims they should report because the have some sort of moral duty to do so.

Sorry
HE was an awful person

On similar note, a "respectable" married famous actor and I shared a night of passion when I was a student and didn't know who he was. He told me the next day. Being a young naive 19 yo I didn't say anything. Wish I told him he's a cheating pig. I left my digital camera at his hotel and he was messaging me the next day and got his PA to post it to me.

He got an OBE recently and it makes me sick he is so well liked in the media and was sleeping with a student making out he was single, when he was married.

You could send him a letter? So what if his partner reads it. Say what you have said here and how he ranked you. Then leave it.

It might have been in the 90s but everyone then knew it was wrong. There are no excuses or do we now forgive JimmySaville because it was ok then??

@Feelinghothothottoday

You could send him a letter? So what if his partner reads it. Say what you have said here and how he ranked you. Then leave it.

It might have been in the 90s but everyone then knew it was wrong. There are no excuses or do we now forgive JimmySaville because it was ok then??

Oh for goodness sake the Savile thing is totally different. His victims were raped and abused and absolutely saw it as that at the time.

The OP says in her first post that "he didn't force me" and that at the time "actually I was flattered".

She is now reviewing and changing her mind on the nature of that relationship and seeing it as perhaps far more coercive and unacceptable than she did at the time and since. Which is is entirely understandable - we can all look back at points in our lives as see them differently with the benefit of age and hard won wisdom.

@scubadive

Things were different then, lots of older boys went with younger girls, they weren’t taught it was wrong like they are today, at 23 he was only young himself, don’t try to cause trouble for him.

Wow! So she was underage but don't cause trouble for him. The reason the OP probably feels so uncomfortable about it is because it was wrong.

I think OP if you are upset about it then go to the police. He was older than you and you sound like you were groomed.

@Anystarinthesky

I remember being disgusted by the Bill Wyman/Mandy Smith relationship in the 1980's. He was in his forties.

According to Mandy she was 13 when they met and 14 when they started having sex.

I hate this. This guy should be in prison. They can still prosecute him but for some reason won't.

I was almost 17 and he was 22. We stayed together for 11 years but by the time I got through my 20s we both wanted very different things so divorced. I don't regret anything. I do agree it was a different time many more of us had or were about to leave home at this age in the 80/90s.

Had a chat with my 17yo DS who is in his first serious relationship with a 17yo girl. We were talking how in his circles it is seen as ick and quite predatory if one of the partners in a relationship is any more than a year or two older.

@Bluntness100

For goodness sake. I’m a grown woman. It is my life and my views end of. I’m not changing my truth because it doesn’t sit well with some randoms on line.

And asking the op what’s driving her anger is a valid question.

She’s angry because she realises she was groomed by a adult when she was a child? And so were you, whether you want to believe it or not.

I can’t believe all the apologists on here. It’s gross, creepy and wrong and personally if I were you I’d report it or go public especially as they’re now famous.

It doesn’t matter if he didn’t force her or if she was flattered. A man in his 20s shouldn’t have to be explicitly told it’s wrong to go after 15 year olds ffs. Is the bar really so low for men that some of you think this is fine because he wasn’t taught not to do it? Jesus. Many schoolgirls fancy their teachers and I’m sure feel flattered and special if the teacher reciprocates, do you think that’s not wrong either?

@Anystarinthesky

I remember being disgusted by the Bill Wyman/Mandy Smith relationship in the 1980's. He was in his forties.

According to Mandy she was 13 when they met and 14 when they started having sex.

You, and everyone I knew.

He was a creep and that poor girl was very vulnerable with shit parents.

Amazing how many women feel compelled to think they know better than the age of consent and defend creeps.

I agree with the male poster above, the overwhelming majority of young men weren't out seeking younger girls back in the early 80's when I was 16/17, just the odd creepy ones.

@Feelinghothothottoday I did think about sending a letter or messaging in some way. I thought it might help me to just say to him that it wasn't OK.
Writing this thread and reading the responses has actually really helped me though.

Anystarinthesky

I remember being disgusted by the Bill Wyman/Mandy Smith relationship in the 1980's. He was in his forties.

According to Mandy she was 13 when they met and 14 when they started having sex.
......
That's right, it was horrible. It's amazing he didn't get into trouble but I suppose the fact that he married her (Mandy Smith), circumvented that possibility.

From what I remember, Mandy was quite damaged by the experience.

@scubadive

Things were different then, lots of older boys went with younger girls, they weren’t taught it was wrong like they are today, at 23 he was only young himself, don’t try to cause trouble for him.

So unfair to cause trouble for paedophiles and sexual predators isn't it! really cramps their style