Disgusted with how MIL spoke to a workman- AIBU?

[Sleeplessem]

So context, MIL doesnt live with DH and I but DH provides for her financially speaking. MIL and DH are Asian (Indian subcontinent) I am white European our DD is very fair (so white passing) MIL doesn’t speak English BUT she understands very basic phrases (think hello, goodbye, my name is etc)

There was a workman doing some work at MILs today that DH had hired. DH gets a call from workman saying that he has introduced himself to MIL several times but she is not calling him by his name, rather she is referring to him as ‘Goreh’ and he’s offended as he’s doing the job for a very good price and has been very careful to make sure she understands what’s going on and is comfortable with a man In her home, yet despite him introducing himself and stating his name she’s been calling him goreh. So he called DH to tell him to tell her to stop or he’ll leave because he doesn’t need it as he’s trying to be helpful. I feel awful for the guy, I’m mortified that she’d treat someone that way.

DH relayed the message but brushed it off as him mum being a bit stupid. I think this is disgusting and it’s purposely talking down to someone who’s doing work in your home.

For context the word goreh means white man. I asked a pakistani friend about it and she was mortified and stated it was really really rude to speak to someone like that. This sort of stuff hits a nerve with me as it is very much how I’m treated by his family. Whilst I understand that white people aren’t victims of racism (I think Akala spoke about it in detail if anyone is interested) the term goreh at least in his family is used in an exclusively derogatory context. Some examples being if someone said you look very goreh today it would be an insult, I’ve been told I have a ‘disgusting gori’ name and family members refused to call me by it, people would stare at me and not let me sit with them at family functions (I’d hear gori, gori and then they’d put their bags on chair so I couldn’t sit there), MIL in particular refused to accept me because I’m ‘gori’ and ‘gori’ have no family values and are all money grabbing etc. So this is how I know, pretty much for certain that goreh/gori is derogatory/ an insult and a slur.

She has a habit of doing really shitty things such as this and gets out of it because she plays dumb. But she’s knows full well that goreh is derogatory and would’ve understood when he told her his name. I’m just mortified and disappointed by her actions yet again, but DH sort of laughs it off.

DH apologised to the work man and made her apologise to so there’s nothing more than can really be done in this situation, so I get that. But this is disgusting behaviour from her right?

[quote cinammonbuns]@Enid9 calling a black man ‘black man’ is not racist. It’s a description like blonde woman or short man.[/quote]
Calling someone 'black man' instead of bothering to find out their actual name very much is racist, though.

@cinammonbuns

I can't see where I suggested you'd said OP's MIL was right, but apologies if it came across that way.

However, in a UK context, I disagree that there's 'Nothing wrong with saying ‘Oh ask the black women for a pen’.' It's not offensive per se, but, in most contexts, it would be very much othering. It's always better to use names wherever possible, at least initially, even if it's "Ask Denise for a pen, as she looks after the stationery - she's the black woman over there".

If she only speaks one word English- how did the, presumably white, workman know that goreh was a racial slur?

Presumably he knows far more English words than she does and is also culturally aware of the area in which he lives. Maybe she isn't the first to have referred to him with that word and he asked friends who speak the language or looked it up previously, when he said several times "Hi, I'm Kevin" but this was repeatedly ignored in favour of calling him something that was clearly nothing like his own name.

@amatsip

My mother uses those terms she is Indian and it is not in a racist context.

Ha Ha Ha ! Such hypocrisy.

@BarbarianMum you exactly picked out the culture I’m from. ‘Oyibo’ literally just means white person and it actually comes from the word for cake in the language. It is not offensive in itself. Obviously awkward to always be described as your colour but they are very blunt there: they will all people the ‘skinny girl’ or ‘the man who I walks with a limp’. In general people don’t get offended by descriptions there but I agree it’s preferable to be called by name.

@JudgeJ how is it hypocritical? Did you miss the multiple posts which said the word is not offensive in itself and depends on the context. It literally just means white person.

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll I was talking about Africa as I was replying to the PP. I was using a comparison not saying it would be normal in a U.K. context, it wouldn’t be normal but it is not offensive. It’s uncomfortable to say in the U.K. because of the history but in Africa white people are seen as rich and powerful and referring to them as white is not demeaning unless something else is attached to it.

OP - you say white people can’t be victims of racism?! Of course they can! Anyone who gets discriminated because of the colour of their skin is a victim of racism, whether that be black, white, Asian etc

[quote Sleeplessem]@Moonwatcher1234 exactly it is offensive isn’t it. She’s not even particularly old, late 50s.[/quote]
Has she ever worked or tried to learn English. I find that quite worrying. Why has your dh got to support her.

BarbarianMum

The Cambridge Dictionary disagrees with you. It obviously wasn't institutional racism, but individuals can be racist or display racist behaviours too:

"harmful or unfair things that people say, do, or think based on the belief that their own race makes them more intelligent, good, moral, etc. than people of other races"

I think it's infantilising to suggest that a person cannot be guilty of prejudicial views and discriminatory behaviour, just because of their race. To me, it has similar implications to those in the past (some of which still persist now), where women were considered pathetic, helpless, hysterical, childlike weaklings who couldn't possibly be in control of their own thoughts, beliefs or actions. Of course, along with the responsibilities that 'they couldn't be trusted with', they also lost any of the corresponding rights at the same time. Conversely, some misogynists also actually happen to be women themselves.

Incidentally, I assume you believe that Asian people can also be victims of racism? If so, how would you have described what motivated these horrible attackers if they had seized on a Chinese woman walking by and screamed that she was an 'Asian bitch'?

@Doris86 I don’t want to get into the detail here as it’s really not the point of my post but it’s there is a distinction between racism (as In a system of oppression, think how black people are treated in the USA) and race based prejudice (the examples of how my IL speak about me, and the distinction is that yes it’s horrible there and then but I don’t suffer on behalf of my whiteness in the UK)

cinammonbuns

OK, then, fair enough - I didn't realise that from your post.

By 'technical' definitions you mean terms that some academics have created and which people use who follow those particular academic theories. They are not 'technical' definitions that exist in law.

The law which protects people because of their race, makes no distinction between people because of the colour of their skin.

@woodhill so never worked, without the language it would be beyond her. She did manual work back home in the fields (farmers) but not that she’d have received a wage for.

She did go to english classes for years and nothing sank in. I think now she can write her name but I’ve looked over her work books and stuff and it’s very much like nursery/ reception level, tracing letters etc. DH had to take her but this became difficult when he worked full time and the classes were 10/3 in the week and a 15 min drive away. Truthfully there was probably also limited motivation to learn, she shops in Asian shops and has Asian friends so her circle really all
Speak her language. It was unfathomable that anyone would marry a non Asian, until me 😀.

[quote Sleeplessem]@Doris86 I don’t want to get into the detail here as it’s really not the point of my post but it’s there is a distinction between racism (as In a system of oppression, think how black people are treated in the USA) and race based prejudice (the examples of how my IL speak about me, and the distinction is that yes it’s horrible there and then but I don’t suffer on behalf of my whiteness in the UK)[/quote]
Some academics have chosen to redefine 'racism' in that way. But their chosen definition has no standing in law, or any standing outside of those circles, and you really can't demand that everyone else submit to this redefinition.
I personally think it is really unpleasant to tell people, like the PP who spoke of a vicious racist attack she experienced, that it was not a racist attack, as if she is somewhat down the victim hierarchy, as she lies their bloody and bleeding.

The law would not make a distinction because of her race and you can't require anyone else to either.

Interesting

I think she shouldn't be speaking down to anyone whoever they are, unnecessary and not nice but perhaps she feels inadequate and powerless herself

Terrible behaviour and some people say racism towards white people doesn't exist???

@sortingout I definitely don’t want to diminish any violent crime anyone has faced but it’s frankly a bit offensive (to the people who actually suffer racism) to say that as a White person you regularly face racism in the UK. Discrimination, sure, hatred even, maybe but not institutional racism. It’s uncomfortable but the majority of the people in positions and institutions of power are white (often men too)

But to repeat myself this wasn’t the point of my post. Whilst I am academically trained, this isn’t my area of expertise but there are some interesting resources out there, quite a few videos on YT, even a few clips from the big questions that I found really informative.

@woodhill maybe but I don’t think so, I think it’s culturally superiority tbh xx

Critical race theory which underpins social justice ideology redefined racism as prejudice plus power. Many of us still prefer the previous definition - prejudice based on race or skin colour.

It's interesting how we frame things differently according to the group doing it. For instance, if a Brit moves to Spain and only hangs out with other 'expats' and doesn't learn any Spanish, most people don't have a good word to say about them.

but it’s frankly a bit offensive...to say that as a White person you regularly face racism in the UK
I never said that. If you response to me relies on lying about what I have said, then that exposes a massive weakness in your argument. Or else you are projecting onto me an unfinished argument you have had with someone else. Whatever, it's weird and unpleasant to throw that accusation at me.

maybe but not institutional racism Well here you are being more precise in your language, by referring to institutional racism - which is a subset of racism. But again, your argument against me relies on misrepresenting what I said. I never said white people suffer institutional racism in the UK. I said that white people can suffer racism and the law which protects people because of their race does not make the distinctions you are making about racism.

You are totally right re racism OP. Racism is prejudice PLUS power. Institutional racism marginalises certain races, and white people are not marginalised in this country.

As white people we can be victims of racial prejudice, yes, and it hurts. But we can't be victims of racism, because when a person or an institution like school is prejudice towards us, it doesn't threaten our life chances. Realistically if you are white in the UK and you are insulted for your race, it will hurt your feelings and piss you off. But it won't stop you from getting into a good university, or make it more difficult for you to get a job, or make you more of a target for the police.

That said, your MIL is being deliberately provocative and rude.

@sortingout there have been other comments that also talk about critical race theory as another poster just mentioned prejudice +power= racism. Please refer to them.

@LikeTheOceansWeRise thanks for explaining better than I could. This is precisely what I meant.

Critical race theory which underpins social justice ideology redefined racism as prejudice plus power. Many of us still prefer the previous definition - prejudice based on race or skin colour

The patronising arrogance of some on here, patiently pointing us to ' 'lots of resources on the internet' and ' quite a few you tube videos' . Well yes, I' can find quite a lot of Q ANON on the net too but that doesn't mean I should become a convert! You tube videos and web pages are not peer reviewed evidence you know. Anyone with any view on anything can stick it on the internet!