Disgusted with how MIL spoke to a workman- AIBU?

[Sleeplessem]

So context, MIL doesnt live with DH and I but DH provides for her financially speaking. MIL and DH are Asian (Indian subcontinent) I am white European our DD is very fair (so white passing) MIL doesn’t speak English BUT she understands very basic phrases (think hello, goodbye, my name is etc)

There was a workman doing some work at MILs today that DH had hired. DH gets a call from workman saying that he has introduced himself to MIL several times but she is not calling him by his name, rather she is referring to him as ‘Goreh’ and he’s offended as he’s doing the job for a very good price and has been very careful to make sure she understands what’s going on and is comfortable with a man In her home, yet despite him introducing himself and stating his name she’s been calling him goreh. So he called DH to tell him to tell her to stop or he’ll leave because he doesn’t need it as he’s trying to be helpful. I feel awful for the guy, I’m mortified that she’d treat someone that way.

DH relayed the message but brushed it off as him mum being a bit stupid. I think this is disgusting and it’s purposely talking down to someone who’s doing work in your home.

For context the word goreh means white man. I asked a pakistani friend about it and she was mortified and stated it was really really rude to speak to someone like that. This sort of stuff hits a nerve with me as it is very much how I’m treated by his family. Whilst I understand that white people aren’t victims of racism (I think Akala spoke about it in detail if anyone is interested) the term goreh at least in his family is used in an exclusively derogatory context. Some examples being if someone said you look very goreh today it would be an insult, I’ve been told I have a ‘disgusting gori’ name and family members refused to call me by it, people would stare at me and not let me sit with them at family functions (I’d hear gori, gori and then they’d put their bags on chair so I couldn’t sit there), MIL in particular refused to accept me because I’m ‘gori’ and ‘gori’ have no family values and are all money grabbing etc. So this is how I know, pretty much for certain that goreh/gori is derogatory/ an insult and a slur.

She has a habit of doing really shitty things such as this and gets out of it because she plays dumb. But she’s knows full well that goreh is derogatory and would’ve understood when he told her his name. I’m just mortified and disappointed by her actions yet again, but DH sort of laughs it off.

DH apologised to the work man and made her apologise to so there’s nothing more than can really be done in this situation, so I get that. But this is disgusting behaviour from her right?

@Ozanj I’ve not heard the collective term used as a derogatory term it’s descriptive.

And that’s what difficult to understand as well how is the mother in law forming the sentence, if she’s calling him goreh log she’s saying white people why are you ringing my doorbell (using OP’s example of her using goreh to answer the door).

I’ve absolutely seen and experienced first hand Asian boys chat up me and my white friends using the term.

I don't know why you're insisting she can't be racist - she definitely is!

She's also ignorant and very rude.

Well if she is that daft/foolish and can’t organise her own repairs, tell her it’s time for her to go into a nursing home.

@Tlollj In this instance I am purely disgusted at how she treated him. The reason I included info around me was for the context of how gori/ gora/ goreh is used as a derogatory term for her/ the wider family.

@frazzledasarock, yeah I get there is gori Chita/chitee (you’re going to have to excuse my spelling here). But my point is in the family gori/ gora/ goreh is purely derogatory for all the reasons I’ve listed In previous posts.

Also it’s a bit peak when someone has told you their name to not call them it and instead refer to them as ‘white man’

@Maggiesfarm

Well, in fairness, describing a white man as a 'white man' is hardly in the same category as calling someone a 'paki'. If the woman cannot really speak English, she is going to feel vulnerable and will make mistakes.

A little tolerance on both sides is needed here.

Um no, OP said that the word for white man used by her MIL is always used derogatorily in the family so it's the same as using 'paki'. Paki might also be understandable as a shortening of Pakistani if it didn't have a history of being used pejoratively and it isn't racist in all the countries that use the word. So it seems to me that these things are equivalent i.e. both are used pejoratively. (I'm not saying for one moment that racism encountered by white people is the same as that encountered by people of colour, just talking about this particular situation).

@DespairingHomeowner

Your MIL/ your husband’s family don’t sound very nice

However, your Pakistani friend’s statement is not fully correct: the term does mean white person, but is not derogatory in normal usage. It’s the equivalent of calling someone ‘ a black man’, not the N word. It’s just a bit unusual to call somebody that to their face

Rude of your MIL not to call him by his name, or something like ‘young man’ 🙄

This explanation just makes the MIL sound even worse.

You understand White people aren't victims of racism while describing your Mother-in-law's almost certainly racist actions? It's relatively small fry in this instance but come on. Call a spade a spade, if it was the other way around you'd be screaming racism, don't be a fool.

[quote frazzledasarock]@Ozanj I’ve not heard the collective term used as a derogatory term it’s descriptive.

And that’s what difficult to understand as well how is the mother in law forming the sentence, if she’s calling him goreh log she’s saying white people why are you ringing my doorbell (using OP’s example of her using goreh to answer the door).

I’ve absolutely seen and experienced first hand Asian boys chat up me and my white friends using the term.[/quote]
Would you be able to tell the difference in pronunciation? I know a lot of my family can’t if it’s said quickly or in different accents and have missed lots of insults as a result. There’s also the point to make that different Indian cultures use Gori / Goreh differently. Many Gujaratis for example literally call white and black people ‘whities’ or ‘blackies’ in Gujarati if they mean no insult, but will use Gori / Goreh (Hindi / Punjabi) if they mean it in a derogatory way. Many Punjabi men will use ‘gauri’ if they think an Indian looking girl is pretty. But referring to a white girl as ‘gauri’ can mean she’s up for it.

It’s a complex can of worms

@Maggiesfarm

Well, in fairness, describing a white man as a 'white man' is hardly in the same category as calling someone a 'paki'. If the woman cannot really speak English, she is going to feel vulnerable and will make mistakes.

A little tolerance on both sides is needed here.

Your plea for tolerance is very one-sided, a white woman would not be allowed to get away with 'black man'.

I really don't understand women marrying men who are 'culturally' expected to prop up his parents, as it's out of family money his wife is also propping them up. The least I would be doing is taking the same amount each monthfor my own purpose.

Well @JudgeJ that’s quite judgmental, I don’t see it as a tit for tat situation (in fact I think that’s quite juvenile). I’m not going to get into here why he supports her (his father is alive and very able, finally his father is paying his way but it’s a whole thing) but DH has financially supported her since before he was 18. Personally I have huge admiration for him for that as it’s a huge burden to take on from such a young age, often putting himself second and giving up opportunities putting her first. Now don’t get me wrong she’s taken the mick with this (again another post).

We never go without if that’s what you’re concerned about and we (dd, me and our home) are top priority

@Ozanj of course I could tell the difference in pronunciation. It’s my mother tongue as I said. It would also be a question of tone of voice as to whether it’s meant in a derogatory way.

Still makes no sense grammatically.

@frazzledasarock rather than call him his name which she knew she was calling him goreh/ gora

White people are definately the victims of racism.

From the Irish to Polish the most common racism I see is from white people to white people based on their race (there isnt great diversity in skin colour where I live but still there is definately racism).

@DespairingHomeowner

Your MIL/ your husband’s family don’t sound very nice

However, your Pakistani friend’s statement is not fully correct: the term does mean white person, but is not derogatory in normal usage. It’s the equivalent of calling someone ‘ a black man’, not the N word. It’s just a bit unusual to call somebody that to their face

Rude of your MIL not to call him by his name, or something like ‘young man’ 🙄

This is true. I'm mixed race, and my father was Asian, so I'm familiar with the term. It simply means 'white' so it's not racist to describe somebody as being white - best not to conflate the two as OP appears to have done. It's simply not true that it's a derogatory term.

That being said, the MiL is clearly a piece of work.

Your MIL is contemptible, as are all people who are rude to workmen, waiters etc. Her behaviour towards you is unforgiveable. Why does your DH go on funding her horrible behaviour?

Do you really want your daughter growing up among people who treat her mother like dirt, and despise your/DD's nationality? She may not see them often, but they're her family and she is learning how low you and she are in their opinion. This can't be good for her.

Whilst I understand that white people aren’t victims of racism

For context I’m a mixed race woman but I don’t agree with this. Anyone can be a victim of racism.

@smallgoon even when the context it has been used in is as in my OP? I think context matters and the familial context gori/ gora etc is used in is negative and derogatory it seems pretty clear cut. So I don’t think I’m conflating anything as I’m very clear how it’s been used in the context of me (all negative btw)

I’d compare it to my mum (who is 100% unequivocally racist. She refers to anyone who is agro carribean as ‘a black’ and often says ‘the blacks are responsible for xyz’ (ridiculous things like criminality) now black in and as of itself isn’t offensive, but it’s how she uses the word and the venom with which she uses it.

Wow OP, I’m from a Pakistani background and nobody in my family, even older members who spoke little English, would dream of speaking to or about someone like this. It’s inexcusable and so disgusting. Some people are just nasty regardless of culture or background.

She has serious issues. She may feel inferior to White people hence her name calling of them.

@Enid9 calling a black man ‘black man’ is not racist. It’s a description like blonde woman or short man.

@thinkingaboutLangCleg, I’m not going into the financial convo and the reasons as to why (but FIL has started to pay his way, so DH is not really paying as much as he once was). But the woman has laid on the guilt and indebtedness to DH thick from a young age. There is also a cultural thing of not saying anything to elders, even if what they’ve said is wildly offensive/ disgusting etc. DH however does correct her. He stood up for me when I refused to engage with her for a year.

She doesn’t see them at all. In fact she’s never met most of them and I’m not comfortable exposing her to them. She sees MIL but I’m not divorcing my husband because his mother is a racist/ prejudice/ problematic.

she's lived here for 30 years. no excuse to claim ignorance

She could have lived here for 300 years but she still can’t speak English. I think her family’s racist - protest all you like, that’s what it is - treatment of you is shocking, OP. I’m appalled.

I do not wish to come over as hyper sensitive, but as someone of south asian heritage, could we please not use the P word even in quoting what others have said. It is every bit as derogatory as the N word which no one hopefully now uses.

@SallyCinnabon I’m black and I say they can’t. You can’t state your race and make yourself the decider of things like this just because your half non-white. Thanks.

@Moonwatcher1234 exactly it is offensive isn’t it. She’s not even particularly old, late 50s.