Disgusted with how MIL spoke to a workman- AIBU?

[Sleeplessem]

So context, MIL doesnt live with DH and I but DH provides for her financially speaking. MIL and DH are Asian (Indian subcontinent) I am white European our DD is very fair (so white passing) MIL doesn’t speak English BUT she understands very basic phrases (think hello, goodbye, my name is etc)

There was a workman doing some work at MILs today that DH had hired. DH gets a call from workman saying that he has introduced himself to MIL several times but she is not calling him by his name, rather she is referring to him as ‘Goreh’ and he’s offended as he’s doing the job for a very good price and has been very careful to make sure she understands what’s going on and is comfortable with a man In her home, yet despite him introducing himself and stating his name she’s been calling him goreh. So he called DH to tell him to tell her to stop or he’ll leave because he doesn’t need it as he’s trying to be helpful. I feel awful for the guy, I’m mortified that she’d treat someone that way.

DH relayed the message but brushed it off as him mum being a bit stupid. I think this is disgusting and it’s purposely talking down to someone who’s doing work in your home.

For context the word goreh means white man. I asked a pakistani friend about it and she was mortified and stated it was really really rude to speak to someone like that. This sort of stuff hits a nerve with me as it is very much how I’m treated by his family. Whilst I understand that white people aren’t victims of racism (I think Akala spoke about it in detail if anyone is interested) the term goreh at least in his family is used in an exclusively derogatory context. Some examples being if someone said you look very goreh today it would be an insult, I’ve been told I have a ‘disgusting gori’ name and family members refused to call me by it, people would stare at me and not let me sit with them at family functions (I’d hear gori, gori and then they’d put their bags on chair so I couldn’t sit there), MIL in particular refused to accept me because I’m ‘gori’ and ‘gori’ have no family values and are all money grabbing etc. So this is how I know, pretty much for certain that goreh/gori is derogatory/ an insult and a slur.

She has a habit of doing really shitty things such as this and gets out of it because she plays dumb. But she’s knows full well that goreh is derogatory and would’ve understood when he told her his name. I’m just mortified and disappointed by her actions yet again, but DH sort of laughs it off.

DH apologised to the work man and made her apologise to so there’s nothing more than can really be done in this situation, so I get that. But this is disgusting behaviour from her right?

Your MIL is racist and probably classist as well. She clearly sees the workman as inferior to herself. May her pipes burst and no plumber be willing to attend!

@Daftpink123 this really concerns me with her. We’ve seen part of her melodrama come out for pure emotional manipulation and to turn the family against me and DH and to get family to have a go at him. She wanted me to move in to her house, you can imagine the strop she had when I said no, same when we bought our house because it’s ‘too far away’ (it’s a 20 min drive on a bad day).

Forward looking im not sure how to deal with that. She won’t try and cross me now because DH had to stage an intervention and I told her that I owe her nothing (morally and islamically as she has no rights over me) so it stops now or she’d be responsible for a divorce. But in old age, god I dread to think.

Wasn’t the point of my post but it is something that I think about

@QualityRoads it’s definitely a race thing not a class thing, her house is very humble and they are in the UK and back home a working class family xx

I am honestly confused as to how people on here want to frame purely descriptive phrases as racist language. It would be like claiming simply saying someone is black or Asian is racist.

But it's when you take a characteristic of somebody and then address them by that, as if it were their name or the only important thing about them - and it goes even further than 'just' racism.

Supposing I met Warwick Davies and I didn't already know who he was. He says "Hi, pleased to meet you, I'm Warwick." Do you really think he wouldn't be offended if I then kept insisting on addressing him as 'Short Man'? "Can I ask you a question, short man?"; "Would you like a cup of coffee, short man?"; "Will you be free to attend a meeting at 3pm, short man?" How can that not be obviously offensive?

By contrast, if somebody had been sent with a message to give to him and, seeing a crowd of people, asked me which one was Warwick, I probably would say "He's the short man over there in the corner". That's what descriptions are for - not as a replacement for names.

It seems odd to me that somebody so patriarchal as to insist that his wife not learn the language of her long-term home country would nevertheless be the kind of man who would cheerfully take on all of the school-related admin that so often falls to mums, even in less blatantly sexist cultures

You’re really not getting this, are you? All the “mental load” that western women complain so bitterly about is men’s work in some cultures. Women are to cook, clean and give birth, sometimes they’re not even allowed to go shopping. Now you might call it abusive but if you do you’re showing contempt for other people’s cultures - just like our Victorian ancestors did.

@Blossomtoes

It seems odd to me that somebody so patriarchal as to insist that his wife not learn the language of her long-term home country would nevertheless be the kind of man who would cheerfully take on all of the school-related admin that so often falls to mums, even in less blatantly sexist cultures

You’re really not getting this, are you? All the “mental load” that western women complain so bitterly about is men’s work in some cultures. Women are to cook, clean and give birth, sometimes they’re not even allowed to go shopping. Now you might call it abusive but if you do you’re showing contempt for other people’s cultures - just like our Victorian ancestors did.

Oh, ok... Best not change anything then?! Anything that could fall under "oh it's their culture" - regardless of the practise? Let's stretch this - how do you feel about female genital mutilation?

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll yes that’s correct, she doesn’t. The area we live in has a large Asian community so it’s easier done than you might imagine. Sweeping statement here but the 45yr + generation of women in his family (who weren’t born here) have not worked a day in the Uk and have never integrated or made an attempt to do so.

Personally I think it’s dangerous and it’s a reason why she’ll never ever have my daughter alone, ever. Can’t call emergency services for instance.

She can’t use the Internet, can’t type. Allegedly can’t dial a phone (although I don’t believe this) doesn’t watch English tv there are Asian channels. Doesn’t take public transport. Did school run but never went to parents evening, friends didn’t come over or if they did anything was translated through DH, not sure if he had White friends.

Oh, ok... Best not change anything then?! Anything that could fall under "oh it's their culture" - regardless of the practise? Let's stretch this - how do you feel about female genital mutilation?

MN never fails in its over reaction and idiotic analogies, does it? You appear to be under the impression that I’m defending when I’m explaining. Talk about white supremacy - why would we determine what’s best for people of other cultures and try to change them? It’s not our place to be white saviours.

I think @cinammonbuns for me it’s the context of how that words gets used my ILs not racism qua
Racism but definitely used to be offensive

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll I wasn’t talking about the OP MIL then I was referring to the Pp who said being called white in Africa was offensive and racist. I already said in a previous post that the OP’s MIL was wrong and very disrespectful to call him that.
Please read my posts before you suggest I was saying the OP’s MIL was right.

@YawnyOwl please can we not trivialise fgm by bringing it into this conversation. It wasn’t the purpose of this post, that was just me saying am I right to be shocked by MIL, and also I’m fed up with her playing the fool to get away with shady things.

But let’s not equate that to fgm, also could start to teeter on islamaphobia and I’m a Muslim too and not here to that

If she only speaks one word English- how did the, presumably white, workman know that goreh was a racial slur?

Gora can be a descriptions but its not just descriptive, not really . Gora is a term with a load of ascribed social meaning. It's not just like saying 'that car is yellow'. Like calling someone 'fat' is rarely just about describing them-- it carries a whole host of social meaning behind it (fat people are bad/lazy/unhealthy/lesser etc). Same same with gora (such as fair skin is more attractive , fair skinned indians are superior to dark skinned indians, white people are lazy, rich, promiscuous, no family values, powerful, superior , educated etc). The associations can be good or bad depending on context but OP is pretty clear that in this family context, the associates are rude.

@Sleeplessem I was talking about the PP who said being called white in Africa was racist. In Africa it is extremely normally to do that as the locals would rarely see white people. They will often say ‘oh give that to the white lady.’ I’m sure it would be nicer to say her name but they are using her very distinguishable characteristic to ensure they know who they are talking about and they are not demeaning her.

Ah sorry @cinammonbuns just didn’t want it to come across like I see myself as a victim or someone who believes myself to be frequently on the receiving end of racism

She was shockingly rude!

No one would refer to a workman in their home as "hey black man!" or "Asian dude, fix the boiler" would they? I don't blame the workman for being thoroughly pissed off.

British people call my black all the time, because I am. Why would I be offended by that? If they called me that instead of my name I would be annoyed too but I know I’m Africa they aren’t demeaning me. When I go back to country I’m from they often refer to me as ‘British women’. They see it as a compliment as British people are seen as richer because they are in general. Its obviously not racist.

@SD1978 I wouldn’t say it’s a slur but he knew it meant white man, and was derogatory. We live in a very multicultural area, it’s almost common knowledge here.

She also knows more than one English word just some very very very basic ones xx

You’re really not getting this, are you? All the “mental load” that western women complain so bitterly about is men’s work in some cultures. Women are to cook, clean and give birth, sometimes they’re not even allowed to go shopping. Now you might call it abusive but if you do you’re showing contempt for other people’s cultures - just like our Victorian ancestors did.

OK, I stand corrected, if these 'kind benevolent' men do more than pull their weight in running the household. For the record, I don't think most western women bitterly complain at all about taking joint responsibility for their children's schooling and taking an interest in their wellbeing and education per se.

As I said, some of my views probably will be seen as culturally insensitive - even showing contempt, as you say. Where do we draw the line, though? Young girls having their feet bound so that they'll never be able to walk properly? FGM? Being married off to 50yo men when they've only just gone through puberty? Women considered the exclusive property of their fathers or husbands? Children being sent out to do hard, physical, very dangerous work (in the history of the UK, as well as many other countries)?

If it makes a difference, I disagree with a lot of 'cultural' behaviours in my own country. I don't agree that you can't have an opinion on something - especially when it is directly responsible for the subjugation/persecution/endangering of less privileged groups - just because it's described as 'culture'. Is the odd rape outrageous, but a widespread 'rape culture' acceptable, because it has that magic word in its description?

@Sleeplessem no it’s fine I agree that your MIL was being very rude and disrespectful. I’m sure she wouldn’t like to be referred to to her face as ‘Asian woman’ once she has said her name.

Just wanted to clarify that in developing counties it often happens there as it is a distinguishable characteristic and they definitely see white people as more powerful there so it would be a compliment not a put down.

Not really the point, but your mother-in-law has lived here for nearly thirty years and all the English she knows is a few phrases such as "Hello", "Goodbye" and "My name is..."? The kind of stuff you would learn in lesson #1 of a language course?

Jeez.

[quote cinammonbuns]@Sleeplessem I was talking about the PP who said being called white in Africa was racist. In Africa it is extremely normally to do that as the locals would rarely see white people. They will often say ‘oh give that to the white lady.’ I’m sure it would be nicer to say her name but they are using her very distinguishable characteristic to ensure they know who they are talking about and they are not demeaning her.[/quote]
It's not the OPs situation but I agree with this^^. I spent several years being called baturiya (lit: woman of no colour), or oyibo (white person) or oyibo pepe (sunburnt white person) in Nigeria. It can be annoying but its not racist, none of the connotations about power, or abilities (or lack of them) are there, it's descriptive. The OP has linked to good resources regarding the difference bw racism and racial prejudice if people want to take a look. When people were looking at me the stereotype was that I was incredibly rich, well educated and powerful and actually, in comparison to most in the village, I was all of those things even though I was a raggedy arsed volunteer on a local wage.

What the fuck do you mean white people don’t experience racism? You stupid little girl. So when I was beaten by BLACK women in an unprovoked attack whilst being screamed at that I was a white bitch and honki it wasn’t a racial attack? I was the only white women in the group and they singled me out.

Some examples being if someone said you look very goreh today it would be an insult, I’ve been told I have a ‘disgusting gori’ name and family members refused to call me by it, people would stare at me and not let me sit with them at family functions (I’d hear gori, gori and then they’d put their bags on chair so I couldn’t sit there), MIL in particular refused to accept me because I’m ‘gori’ and ‘gori’ have no family values and are all money grabbing etc. So this is how I know, pretty much for certain that goreh/gori is derogatory/ an insult and a slur

Are you that ignorant against your own race that you can’t see this is blatant racism!!!

@OneMamaAndHerGirl yes it was a racially motivated attack (sorry that happened to you btw) but no white people dont experience racism. It's all down to the technical definitions, lots of info on the internet if you are interested.