Any Carers here who are not taking the vaccine?

[Maybevaccine]

It's apparently been confirmed now that it is compulsory for care home workers and other carers to take the vaccine.

I just got a job in a care home, and I've always said no to the vaccine. Mainly because of the things I've seen and read of people who've had the vaccine. Blood clots, death, rashes, and people still getting covid after taking the vaccine.

I don't know what to do now.

eandz13
And if she'd had a flu vaccine she probably wouldn't have been so ill.Same applies with covid.

@campion

eandz13 And if she'd had a flu vaccine she probably wouldn't have been so ill.Same applies with covid.

Always makes me laugh how much that little fact escapes people when they voice it.

@campion why do people insist on missing the point? The vast majority of young, healthy people are fine without these vaccines. Some get unlucky. Sometimes the vaccine risks outweigh the actual illness risks. Sometimes they don't. Such is life.
My personal risk of experiencing side effects of the vaccine is actually marginally higher than becoming very unwell with COVID.

Over 150,000 people in GB alone are injured or killed as a result of a traffic collision per year. Do you just not get in cars either?

Mrstumblesspottyface
An honest post - and so very sorry to hear of your loss. If people only knew what does go on in some care homes.

The vaccine debate aside, quite frankly, the posters alluding to carers being thick and uneducated should be ashamed of themselves.

They'd soon care if there was a shortage of people willing to continue wiping their family members arse and doing other personal duties they are not prepared to do themselves.

@eandz13 there’s literally no vaccine where the vaccine risk outweighs the illness. It makes no sense that would be the case. Citation please.

I'm curious to know that those of who who believe in some of the more bonkers theories about the vaccine, what do you think when presented with properly evidenced scientific facts?

When people like Chris Whitty et al present facts about the vaccine:

1. Vaccination helps reduce the spread of the virus and reduces the ability of it mutating
2. Vaccination helps reduce the impact of the virus should you be unlucky enough to get it
3. Vaccination helps reduce people catching it in the first place
4. The first three phases of the vaccination trials were successfully completed last year and we are currently in phase four trials which is basically post-release monitoring

Do you just sit there and think "nah, I'm not buying that. I will just continue to ignore scientific evidence and continue to help spread the virus and potentially contribute to yet more restrictions and lockdowns"?

Or do you think "I'm not letting the government tell me what to do and am refusing out of principle, even though it may contribute to the greater good because I am unable to see the bigger picture here"?

NB. This doesn't apply to people who are unable to have the vaccine.

@niugboo
Another really quick google search, the chances of me and others like me becoming unwell with fever, nausea, chills, muscle aches, dizziness, V&D etc, pretty high after the vaccine.

www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/reactogenicity.html

www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00224-3/fulltext

My risk of becoming particularly unwell with COVID is 0.2%. (I've actually had COVID, in my experience I've had worse colds, I do know that is not the case for everybody, obviously, but it of course directs me towards not feeling the need to have a vaccine)

The problem with catching covid is that it is a Russian Roulette virus. Most people recover, but a significant minority don't. And that is the issue.

And the other issue is that the non vaccinators are helping to allow the virus to mutate.

@RampantIvy some would say just like the flu... or even chickenpox. There isn't a global meltdown over having those vaccines, though.

@RampantIvy - agree. People have forgotten about Boris in intensive care and poor Derek Draper still very ill indeed. The media has moved on and are now combing the country for anyone with a bad vaccine reaction.

Most people have a bit of a flu-like illness with covid, but every so often someone is thoroughly felled.

[quote eandz13]@campion why do people insist on missing the point? The vast majority of young, healthy people are fine without these vaccines. Some get unlucky. Sometimes the vaccine risks outweigh the actual illness risks. Sometimes they don't. Such is life.
My personal risk of experiencing side effects of the vaccine is actually marginally higher than becoming very unwell with COVID.

Over 150,000 people in GB alone are injured or killed as a result of a traffic collision per year. Do you just not get in cars either?

[/quote]
I'm not sure what your point is. That vaccines are therefore pointless for a novel virus sweeping the world, killing the (not always easily identifiable) vulnerable in millions?
Those with a true vaccine risk don't get vaccinated and the rest of us do to help protect them, and ourselves. Such is life.

@campion my point is I'm not partaking in an experiment. It is still a trial. And it is understandable if others choose not to participate, too.

@eandz13 you are aware that like wearing a mask, vaccinating healthy people is to protect the vulnerable who can't have it, thus providing herd immunity for those most likely to die if they catch the disease you're vaccinating against?

Over 150,000 people in GB alone are injured or killed as a result of a traffic collision per year. Do you just not get in cars either?

4.6 million have contracted covid in the UK. 128k people have died of covid and 376k people have long covid.

Now road traffic accidents...let's break that headline figure down into something more meaningful.

A total of 1,752 people were killed in reported road traffic accidents in Great Britain

In 2019, there were also 25,945 seriously injured casualties in reported road traffic accidents.

There were also 125,461 slightly injured casualties in reported road traffic accidents reported to the police.

So it would seem to be far safer to get in your car than take your chances with covid.

eandz13 Fri 18-Jun-21 09:09:10
RampantIvy some would say just like the flu... or even chickenpox. There isn't a global meltdown over having those vaccines, though.

Can you elaborate on that?
There is a huge effort worldwide, every single year, to put out flu vaccines that, due to the nature of the virus, are often not very effective. Still, there is some degree of protection in the wider population because we have met these virus before. Unlike sars-cov-2.

Chicken pox is a much milder disease than covid-19, and it is a childhood disease. Last time I heard, it would be very unlucky for anyone with chicken pox to need to stay in hospital, let alone intensive care. Even shingles.

Sorry that first road deaths figure should have said in 2019.

@RampantIvy

The problem with catching covid is that it is a Russian Roulette virus. Most people recover, but a significant minority don't. And that is the issue.

^^ and this is why I got the vaccine. I didn't want to take my chances. I could be lucky and be asymptomatic or unlucky and on a ventilator in hospital. I can't predict how my body would react to the virus. Therefore to me it seemed wiser to receive the vaccine.

[quote eandz13]@campion my point is I'm not partaking in an experiment. It is still a trial. And it is understandable if others choose not to participate, too. [/quote]
You'd rather partake in the experiment of whether you'll get covid or not and partake in the experiment of wether you'll need hospital or not?

There are enough data to know that the approved vaccines are sufficiently effective and sufficiently safe.

By your logic, you won't partake in taking any medicine or undergoing any medical procedure. They're all risky in some way, and there are no guarantees that they'll be safe for each individual person taking them. So, you are partaking in medical experiments every single time, according to you.

@Lweji I've had COVID. I was fine. I understand others have not been so lucky. I'm not saying the trial should stop, it should definitely continue, but it should absolutely be a choice that nobody is bullied for should they choose not to be involved right now.

No, that was clearly not my logic. This experiment is absolutely brand new. I like to completely understand the risks of things, I personally would be more comfortable with a few years research behind this at least, rather than a few months.

[quote eandz13]@campion why do people insist on missing the point? The vast majority of young, healthy people are fine without these vaccines. Some get unlucky. Sometimes the vaccine risks outweigh the actual illness risks. Sometimes they don't. Such is life.
My personal risk of experiencing side effects of the vaccine is actually marginally higher than becoming very unwell with COVID.

Over 150,000 people in GB alone are injured or killed as a result of a traffic collision per year. Do you just not get in cars either?

[/quote]
It’s amazing that you have to give up your right to make your own decision about what you inject into your body.

Some countries demand a yellow fever vaccine for visitors.

It's a tough choice to mandate care workers to vaccinate. But the alternative is to risk those in care to get a disease that can kill them, and has in the past.
So, it seems that for some employment rights trump health and life rights.

Sorry, that quote wasn't suppose to go on that post.

Now to @eandz13

Funnily enough, there is huge personal and state investment in road risk prevention.
How much money is spent on traffic lights, pedestrian crossings, road markings, road surfaces? And how much money goes into seat belts, airbags, crumple zones, breaks, lights, detection systems to avoid crashes, etc? Drivers need to learn and pass a test. Some people are prevented from driving because they are a risk to themselves and others. Should they be allowed to?

I do my best to avoid road injuries, like I do to avoid being ill. That is why I take vaccines.

Say, tetanus. The chance that I'll get tetanus is very slim. Yet, the outcome is very bad. I take the vaccine.
There is a slim chance that I'll get covid (because I'm careful, and so are those around me), but if I do, I risk long term damage (women are more at risk of long covid), and even if I'm not likely to need hospital treatment or intensive care, or even die, this is an outcome that I do not welcome at all. A vaccine that gives me 95% against any of those outcomes is very welcome indeed.

Even if you have had covid and didn't suffer too badly, you don't know how much damage it has done, and there are no guarantees that you won't get it again or that the outcome will be the same.

No, that was clearly not my logic. This experiment is absolutely brand new. I like to completely understand the risks of things, I personally would be more comfortable with a few years research behind this at least, rather than a few months.

No, this is not an experiment. This (vaccination) is a measure to protect the population. That is where you are wrong.
This is using all available tools.
You are choosing not to use a tool.

You do know that it won’t end with healthcare workers? What about if it’s made mandatory for hospitality, or retail? Or any job for a local authority? Or for large corporations?

What if this sets the precedent for mandatory vaccinations or other medial requirements. And one day, there is something you don’t like or are unsure of and it’s mandatory to have it for your job?