Not to support DD TTC Part 2

[checkyourpops]

Hi, just starting over from last thread.

Thank you for the ongoing support I haven't any updates yet. DD hasn't told her boyfriend yet because he's got a sickness bug apparently. She says she's definitely telling him Monday after work. She seems to have calmed down and is talking to me again, although we haven't spoken really about the pregnancy

DH has seen a few flats and actually thinks it might be a good idea to gift a 2 bed to her... And nothing else. No help in any other area. Then she will have no excuse really as she won't have living costs and can put her wage to mostly buying baby things and sorting stuff for herself. It makes me feel a lot better at night knowing she can be safe and have her home sorted without possibility of eviction etc. It is something I'm open to doing

She is still my baby at heart, to me, but it feels a lot better now I feel like there's a plan. I have calmed down quite a bit and dare I say it, felt a tinge of excitement this afternoon in my head.... quickly replaced by worry but there you go!

If you do go down the road of rewarding her stupidity and entitlement with a free flat, make sure it's not too close by.

If it's within 5 minutes travel she will still be permanently at your house, OP.

You’ve really taken against OP’s daughter, haven’t you @SofiaMichelle?

Quite a few posters have taken against her. They forget that they’re talking about the OP’s DD and future DGC, not some random person, as she is to them.

About a third of my 10 year old's classmates have DMs who would have been around 20 when they were born. Another third have DMs in their 50s and the rest are in between with all sorts of conventional and unconventional family set ups. I'm shocked at how judgey some of the pps are and the stench of misogyny as regards motherhood choices.

I don't see it as a case of rewarding vs punishing the DD but as a case of the OP not wanting to become a Co parent at this stage of her life. The OP needs to ensure things are set up so this doesn't happen and in this case getting the DD set up in a little flat is the best option. It potentially comes with the "side effect" of rewarding her mistake but that could be outweighed by the benefit of it pushing her into living as an adult.

I think a lot of parents with children at risk of failure to launch do things which have the potential to be worth it in the long run even if it seems like bailing them out in the short run.

You say your daughter is a high achiever and very organised , then flipped a switch. Could she have extreme anxiety over change?
I have known people like this. Intelligent but never progressed beyond working a min wage job and living with parents because they just cannot handle anything that they’re not already familiar with.
Your daughter’s unwillingness to progress has a root cause and unless you correct it she will keep coming back. It’s not as simple as being ‘entitled, lazy’ or anything else ...

I think that's a very wise response @MoreAloneTime. I remember a relative having a bit of a breakdown a few years ago and his DM more or less job hunting for him, writing CV and applications and so forth.His sister and I were quite sceptical about this - to be fair there was a bit of sibling preference going on - but getting a job turned out to be the making of him.
He was a bit like you describe @LateAtTate - very clever but stuck somewhere- I would argue though that OP cannot fix her DD, only the DD herself can do that, but ensuring that she has a place to stay whilst OP avoids being a substitute DP to her GC is the best she can do.

This is a really tricky situation and I feel for all concerned.

I do think the OP is trying to keep control over her daughter; what she does, what she should have done, where she lives (not her house, but in this flat, in this way). Scope for so much hurt and long term resentment.

Hurt and resentment works both ways @Diamondnights .

The OP will be terribly resentful if she ends up being the de facto carer for a GC when she's at a different stage in her life, as well as having her retirement and downsizing plans completely ruined.

if the DD remains in the house it's pretty much inevitable that's what will happen and DD isn't showing any signs of voluntarily moving.

Buying a flat for her to live in is generous but fine but do not gift it to her.

1. She has to grow.
2. Circumstances change and you might not be in the position to support your younger son, or indeed yourself, at some point. Don't give away your future or penalise your son.
3. What is she marries and they claim half of what should be your asset?

I'm sorry OP this is very hard

My friends parents were sneaky in same situation. They told their dd that a friend had a two bed house to let but under going rate. Rent was agreed and agreement drew up (not sure how kept their names off it). Then dd paid the rent. After about 6 years once dd was well settled finically they told her. She was shocked but understood as she admitted herself that was she was cash short in early days IF she knew it was her mum and dad, she just wouldn't have paid.

Op I think I would see what she plans as she goes before offering help she made the choice and has to stand on her own feet

In the modern world, most of us are lucky to be able to make our own choices
In some other countries, some people don't have the luxury of so much choice & freedom

I am trying to think about choices that other people make such as; emigrating to the other side of the world, not having children, living off grid, become a drug addict etc

Most parents want the best for their children

We cannot control other people

This may be the making of your DD, only time will tell

@SempreSuiGeneris

About a third of my 10 year old's classmates have DMs who would have been around 20 when they were born. Another third have DMs in their 50s and the rest are in between with all sorts of conventional and unconventional family set ups. I'm shocked at how judgey some of the pps are and the stench of misogyny as regards motherhood choices.

What misogyny?

The choice to conceive without having any of the resources required to raise a child is irresponsible, it's not about it being an equally valid choice that happens to be unconventional.

If DD's daughter had a full-time job, had savings, was in a supportive relationship with her partner, and lived independently to OP then most posters would be more supportive of the DD. But it sounds like DD has been coasting along, living with her parents on a part-time job with a boyfriend that OP seems to think DD is largely ambivalent about, and hasn't given any thought on what life she will be providing for her child. She isn't a mature 19 year old, she's a very "young" 19 and that's the concern.

Your daughter’s unwillingness to progress has a root cause

She’s 19 and has just had a miscarriage at 20 weeks. How much progress could she realistically have made? Just holding down a job is an achievement right now. The judgement, misogyny and lack of any compassion and empathy here is something else.

Sorry op but Im not convinced the boyfriend is a knowing and willing participant in the TTC. She's not telling him because he's got a cold just now... if he's as desperate as she is she would have been ecstatic to tell him, cheer him up, give him the good news. She's avoiding him because she knows the reaction won't be great. I think you sound like a great mum who's trying to do their best for dd. But dd is lazy and entitled. I could not imagine telling my mum that I had got a job but it was 4 days a week because that suits me better! I also can't believe how quick shes gotten pregnant again. Yet if you look in the TTC boards there are so many of us in an excellent position to have a baby yet we are not blessed. Also I wouldn't be surprised if DD is on mumsnet if she's using the 10dpo lingo!

If we're talking about misogyny, it's fair to mention that this charge could also apply to those who seemingly expect OP to raise her adult DDs DC and give up her own future life ambitions.

@rookiemere

If we're talking about misogyny, it's fair to mention that this charge could also apply to those who seemingly expect OP to raise her adult DDs DC and give up her own future life ambitions.

Except nobody has 🤷‍♀️

There's actually a lot to be said for having babies early. I know several people who did this and then decided to go to uni.
Don't force these things on her for now but might be worth talking about in future.
Students who are already parents do really well. They understand hard work and getting the most out of their time.
Hope all works out for her

@Blossomtoes you seem to be a bit too blinded by your own experiences to read properly. Root cause refers to her decision not to go to uni BEFORE any of this occurred.Someone who’s generally organised (as OP said her DD is with chores) and with good grades doesn’t just decide that they all they want is a part time job , living at home with no plan. Miscarriage aside there’s something deeper going on in the background and she needs help with whatever it is.

[quote LateAtTate]@Blossomtoes you seem to be a bit too blinded by your own experiences to read properly. Root cause refers to her decision not to go to uni BEFORE any of this occurred.Someone who’s generally organised (as OP said her DD is with chores) and with good grades doesn’t just decide that they all they want is a part time job , living at home with no plan. Miscarriage aside there’s something deeper going on in the background and she needs help with whatever it is.[/quote]
From the previous thread:

She doesn't want to go to university. She says it's a waste of time unless it's something very specific you must be qualified for.

She’s right, there are people with student debt of £50k working in call centres. Plenty more doing unpaid internships. Graduates are a glut on the market now. She’s got a job which will provide gold standard maternity benefits and a flexible, family friendly environment, seems pretty sensible to me.

She’s right, there are people with student debt of £50k working in call centres. Plenty more doing unpaid internships. Graduates are a glut on the market now. She’s got a job which will provide gold standard maternity benefits and a flexible, family friendly environment, seems pretty sensible to me.

Calling bullshit. It depends on the subject and quality of institution though as well as factors like where the graduate worker is based, and want to live. The pandemic job market isn't great for graduates admittedly, but people are still finding work and it isn't good for many right now.

There is no evidence of an oversupply of skills.

Graduates still have access to all the training schemes which are only open to graduates.

It may be family-friendly with maternity benefits if she's been there long enough to qualify for them, but if it's low-paid work it will not pay her to return to work. She would need to do distance learning or return to college to build skills up if she wanted to progress, all of which are harder to do when working and looking after children. She could stay at the level she is at - but if she is intelligent, she is likely to get bored, and she is also at risk of her job being automated.

She’s got a job which will provide gold standard maternity benefits and a flexible, family friendly environment, seems pretty sensible to me.

And she's gone part time.

Realistically we all know she can't be arsed to work hard to provide for herself (and now a baby, too). The uni thing is just a distraction to take some heat off her decisions.

She’s got a job which will provide gold standard maternity benefits and a flexible, family friendly environment, seems pretty sensible to me.

You might be overestimating the scale of the NHS maternity scheme. Particularly if it’s a low paid role being done part time.

FGS OP please support your daughter. There is nothing wrong with being a mum at 19 and there is nothing wrong with supporting your family/ children, regardless of their age. She needs your help right now. She is grieving, she is pregnant, she is vulnerable. Be kind. Be a parent. It’s that simple.