Not to support DD TTC Part 2

[checkyourpops]

Hi, just starting over from last thread.

Thank you for the ongoing support I haven't any updates yet. DD hasn't told her boyfriend yet because he's got a sickness bug apparently. She says she's definitely telling him Monday after work. She seems to have calmed down and is talking to me again, although we haven't spoken really about the pregnancy

DH has seen a few flats and actually thinks it might be a good idea to gift a 2 bed to her... And nothing else. No help in any other area. Then she will have no excuse really as she won't have living costs and can put her wage to mostly buying baby things and sorting stuff for herself. It makes me feel a lot better at night knowing she can be safe and have her home sorted without possibility of eviction etc. It is something I'm open to doing

She is still my baby at heart, to me, but it feels a lot better now I feel like there's a plan. I have calmed down quite a bit and dare I say it, felt a tinge of excitement this afternoon in my head.... quickly replaced by worry but there you go!

If you buy the flat in your name, you’ll have to pay second-home stamp duty for it (and any subsequent properties, eg if you downsize or buy one for your DS).

If you buy it in her name she’ll lose half of it when she gets divorced.
If she owns a flat that might well affect what benefits she can claim (let’s be honest, she’s not going on carry on working once the baby is here) and will affect her ability to use any future first-time-buyer schemes.

While you’re saying you will do this, and then she’ll have to stand on her own two feet, the reality will be different. You’re not going to let your DGC go hungry, cold or have dirty nappies, so you need to plan to buy her food and nappies and pay her bills too. You’ll not let her face prosecution for unpaid council tax so you’ll pay that too. She’ll be unhappy because she can’t get out and about, so you’ll buy her a car because your DGC will benefit. You’ll be funding her for life.

And expect a rather put-out DS.

We did always say we would help both DC with a house deposit. We've been saying it for years, between me and DH.

The property ladder is just too difficult overall to get onto otherwise, plus we are very very fortunate to afford it

And expect a rather put-out DS.

Hopefully not. His own property help will be available to him when the time goes. And hopefully he won't be in the business of having babies as a child himself

I do think from everything you’ve said your daughter has been very indulged. She has wanted for nothing, been promised everything, I notice that these children often do struggle with that transition to true adulthood.

We also said we will be helping him financially through uni, if he goes

@checkyourpops

We also said we will be helping him financially through uni, if he goes

Even just saying things like that. The kids have it in their heads that you are always behind them paying for everything. So they live pseudo adult lives with mummy and daddy funding it.

@checkyourpops you're doing a good thing, I can hardly see how cutting her off with no financial support would help given the current housing market and level of government support.

I'm sorry if I sounded critical. Your daughter sounds very capable on many fronts. Will she be able to cope with living alone; might she be at risk of abusive relationships in future? If she doesn't settle down with this boyfriend it's more likely she will date people who also have children and her life will become more complicated - the boyfriend will have parental rights for example.

Parents can't solve everything for their children - money will solve many of her challenges, and she will probably cope fine financially on her current income if not paying private sector rents or saving for a deposit. But there are others to come.

Good luck OP.

I'd be very careful about buying her an apartment. When the bf sees pound signs and the fact you seem to be rewarding your dd for getting pregnant he may well pop the question before too long. By all means buy an apartment but keep it in your names, as otherwise he could walk with half the value in a few years time, leaving you paying him off as dd won't want to sell up.

It seems yourself and Dh are running away with yourselves a bit coming up with expensive plans for your dd. Calm down, take a few weeks and figure something out that doesn't involve you spending your retirement funds on your dd. It's one thing to gift a deposit for an apartment but quite another thing to buy it outright for her. And if you and Dh fund this, how will she ever learn to stand on her own feet? Her expectations going forward will be huge.

Even just saying things like that. The kids have it in their heads that you are always behind them paying for everything. So they live pseudo adult lives with mummy and daddy funding it.

I get that. But the thing is, when the support is done it's done. So we will help set them up, but that's it. No coming for cash for things etc. No more help once they're set up

We're doing our very best. Obviously DD is in a dire situation now and I don't want it to be even more of a shit show than it currently is. And I also don't want DS resentful - He can have some financial help too if that's what he needs

Have you asked her what her plan is financially?

All good and well saying you will buy her a flat etc, but I would be asking her what her own plan is to financially support this child she has purposefully conceived.

After she has given you her plan, then you can tell her you will help with a flat.

If you tell her upfront, she doesn’t have to grow up and look at her options for providing her child with a home, does she?

So we will help set them up, but that's it. No coming for cash for things etc. No more help once they're set up

This isn’t true though. You’ll continue to fund her indefinitely, as you won’t see her face any hardship or consequence, especially if it impacts your DGC.

the pram, the cot, the buggy,,the high chair, all cost, can be extortionate,
you will be funding these no doubt, no way will you want your dgc to go without.
she may as well stay at home rather than play at houses

@YesDisney That's a good idea. We won't be telling her up front anyway without asking what her plans are now, going forward since we've made it clear she can't stay here

you need to properly throw her out, so she can be rehoused!

A word of warning about buying a property. My parents did this for my brother. He lives in a house converted into 2 flats. There have been some financial issues eg he doesn’t seem to be able to apply for additional top up housing benefit . There have been problems when bills arrive for joint service expenses eg a new roof . Things that wouldn’t arise if he rented and that he had no hope in paying. At 53 he is still dependent on them .

We bought all of these second-hand for less than £150, but I suspect she isn’t going to be used to a frugal lifestyle, and the OP won’t want her to not be happy.

I think you should be quietly and privately confident that you have the financial resources in reserve if things go drastically wrong.

Before alluding to any of that I would be encouraging and supporting her practical independence.

I would also ensure that you and your DH were emotionally secure and ready for this because I don’t think it will be as necessarily plain sailing, blissful and the answer to all of her traumas.

I suspect that she might become very emotionally overwhelmed once the reality sets in. She didn’t actually choose this path - this wasn’t her life plan - she accidentally got pregnant and the TTC was only a secondary impulse to relieve the pain of her miscarriage. This is a reaction to what happened to her.

Expect to ride a bit of an emotional roller coaster - hang on tight and trust that with your love and consistent emotional support she will become a strong independent mother.

It’s finding the sweet spot between throwing her to the wolves emotionally, logistically and financially and indulging and enabling dependency.

Think of every thing you do and say as will this help her grow in confidence and independence in the longer term.

Is it "helping" her to rescue her and swoop in to solve all her problems, shielding her from real budgeting decisions, before she even attempts to formulate her own plan? She hasn't even had a chance to try yet.

Is a cliff edge approach where you do all the adult thinking and decision-making and funding for her then suddenly step back and expect her to be responsible for all of it - with no prior experience - and no safety net if she hits a bump in the road the best approach?

Will you really turn her away if she got made redundant or whatever in future and needed support? "Oh sorry we did everything for you before so now we do nothing, go and live in a b&b." ?

You've gone from being very firm that if she wants to make adult decisions to plan to have a baby then she has to take adult responsibilities to plan how she will house and care for herself and that baby, to suddenly deciding to do all of it for her so she doesn't have to.

I understand she's your daughter and you want to protect her but personally I think this idea, whilst well-meaning, is misguided. Take a step back, slow down.

Much better to stick with the original position that she needs to take responsibility for her own life, and for the two of you as her parents to support her in the background. Give her the chance to succeed, catch her if she stumbles. Don't take away the opportunity for her to succeed by doing it all for her.

@tornadosequins

Is it "helping" her to rescue her and swoop in to solve all her problems, shielding her from real budgeting decisions, before she even attempts to formulate her own plan? She hasn't even had a chance to try yet.

Is a cliff edge approach where you do all the adult thinking and decision-making and funding for her then suddenly step back and expect her to be responsible for all of it - with no prior experience - and no safety net if she hits a bump in the road the best approach?

Will you really turn her away if she got made redundant or whatever in future and needed support? "Oh sorry we did everything for you before so now we do nothing, go and live in a b&b." ?

You've gone from being very firm that if she wants to make adult decisions to plan to have a baby then she has to take adult responsibilities to plan how she will house and care for herself and that baby, to suddenly deciding to do all of it for her so she doesn't have to.

I understand she's your daughter and you want to protect her but personally I think this idea, whilst well-meaning, is misguided. Take a step back, slow down.

Much better to stick with the original position that she needs to take responsibility for her own life, and for the two of you as her parents to support her in the background. Give her the chance to succeed, catch her if she stumbles. Don't take away the opportunity for her to succeed by doing it all for her.

I agree with this.

Prioritise giving her your emotional encouragement and support so that she is able to problem solve and practically manage her life confidently and independently.

I suspect that she might become very emotionally overwhelmed once the reality sets in. She didn’t actually choose this path - this wasn’t her life plan - she accidentally got pregnant and the TTC was only a secondary impulse to relieve the pain of her miscarriage. This is a reaction to what happened to her.

I was thinking something similar yesterday. At some point it's going to sink in for her that a new baby is a different person entirely to the baby she lost, and a new baby isn't going to change or replace her loss.

She will need support, but I still don't think that swooping in and doing everything for her before she has the chance to try is the right answer.

Part of recovery from trauma is feeling in control of her life again. (It's a key part of the approach mental health services take to working with trauma survivors). You swooping in takes away opportunities for her to be in control and is not helpful.

I wouldn't dream of gifting a 19 year old a flat.

She could indeed marry and it would be a marital asset.

I think she should rent and experience standing on her own feet.

You are continuing to baby her OP.

She will NEVER mature if you don't allow her to.

@AbsolutelyPatsy

you need to properly throw her out, so she can be rehoused!

It’s not the 20th century any more. Who’s going to house her? There’s virtually no social housing.

This thread is rapidly becoming very spiteful and God - the judgement! OP’s aim is to help and support her daughter while facilitating her becoming independent, not to punish her which is what a lot of you seem to want.

Regardless of having no housing costs, she’s still going to have to learn to budget for council tax, utilities, food and all the other ongoing expenses we all have. She’ll still have the same shock anyone leaving home has when they discover the fairies don’t bring cleaning materials, soap and toothpaste.

There are huge assumptions that she’ll give up her job, why would she? The NHS has generous maternity leave provision and is a family friendly employer, she couldn’t be in a better place from an employment benefits point of view.

You’re doing your best for her, OP. I was one of your harshest critics on your previous thread but I genuinely think you’re doing well here.

@tornadosequins

Is it "helping" her to rescue her and swoop in to solve all her problems, shielding her from real budgeting decisions, before she even attempts to formulate her own plan? She hasn't even had a chance to try yet.

Is a cliff edge approach where you do all the adult thinking and decision-making and funding for her then suddenly step back and expect her to be responsible for all of it - with no prior experience - and no safety net if she hits a bump in the road the best approach?

Will you really turn her away if she got made redundant or whatever in future and needed support? "Oh sorry we did everything for you before so now we do nothing, go and live in a b&b." ?

You've gone from being very firm that if she wants to make adult decisions to plan to have a baby then she has to take adult responsibilities to plan how she will house and care for herself and that baby, to suddenly deciding to do all of it for her so she doesn't have to.

I understand she's your daughter and you want to protect her but personally I think this idea, whilst well-meaning, is misguided. Take a step back, slow down.

Much better to stick with the original position that she needs to take responsibility for her own life, and for the two of you as her parents to support her in the background. Give her the chance to succeed, catch her if she stumbles. Don't take away the opportunity for her to succeed by doing it all for her.

This!

Thanks for the responses. I feel back to square one again, as I now feel as if maybe planning to give her a flat, that's our property or otherwise, is the wrong choice. As she will not see the weight of her responsibility now etc

It's so hard. I just don't know right now. The thing is, we've always said we would financially support through uni, to encourage them to actually go! And to give them a few years to sort themselves out if they need it. That offer still stands if DS goes yet DD didn't so she probably wonders why we can't use that cash to support her now?

I wish this whole thing would just go away, pregnancy, plans to TTC, this boyfriend. Believe it or not, DD got top marks for A Level and could've applied reasonably to Medicine. Then it's like a switch was turned and she was suddenly interested in boyfriend and his family, spoke about children a lot... Then announced she wasn't going to think of uni at all and wanted to work straight away and not take a gap year either, as planned previously

This thread is rapidly becoming very spiteful and God - the judgement! OP’s aim is to help and support her daughter while facilitating her becoming independent, not to punish her which is what a lot of you seem to want.

I’ve noticed that. They’re overlooking the fact that this isn’t just about the OP’s DD, it’s also about an innocent baby, who will all being well be born in 8 months time. That baby doesn’t deserve to be punished for the mum’s poor decisions following a traumatic loss.