Not to support DD TTC Part 2

[checkyourpops]

Hi, just starting over from last thread.

Thank you for the ongoing support I haven't any updates yet. DD hasn't told her boyfriend yet because he's got a sickness bug apparently. She says she's definitely telling him Monday after work. She seems to have calmed down and is talking to me again, although we haven't spoken really about the pregnancy

DH has seen a few flats and actually thinks it might be a good idea to gift a 2 bed to her... And nothing else. No help in any other area. Then she will have no excuse really as she won't have living costs and can put her wage to mostly buying baby things and sorting stuff for herself. It makes me feel a lot better at night knowing she can be safe and have her home sorted without possibility of eviction etc. It is something I'm open to doing

She is still my baby at heart, to me, but it feels a lot better now I feel like there's a plan. I have calmed down quite a bit and dare I say it, felt a tinge of excitement this afternoon in my head.... quickly replaced by worry but there you go!

But she still has those A level grades and can go to uni at a later date, as a mature student. She really is only 19.

The thing is, you don’t have to come up with any plans right now - she does! SHE planned this baby. It’s up to her to look after it.

You can provide guidance and support along the way, but she needs to actually think about how she’s going to provide for this child she chose to have.

I fell pregnant with DS at 20. I had a total “oh shit” moment where I instantly knew I would have to move out, because I couldn’t stay at home with a baby. It was honestly just never in the question. I found the cheapest flat I could afford. I asked the father for help with the deposit. I worked full time in a dead end physical job until I was 36 weeks and saved my ass off. I lived on benefits and child maintenance for 4 months and then went back to work part time.

My parents helped along the way with a second hand pram and small baby gifts, but his father and I bought everything else ourselves. Because it was OUR baby. Wasn’t planned but we still knew we had to provide for it.

We did make the relationship work in the end and moved in together when DS was 1, but honestly it could have gone either way. So I don’t think she needs to move in with the boyfriend right away or anything. But she does need a plan that doesn’t involve you bailing her out.

OP, I think your original plan of offering to help with a flat was a good one.

Do not rush into anything like buying a flat.

Give her the chance to grow and be independent and responsible.

You offered to help with university, just because she hasn't bothered doesn't mean the money is hers.

If she is so bright, given the space to mature she could well rethink university in a few years.
Lots do.

Slow down and let her move into a rented flat first.

One step at a time.

Handing everything to her now will never give her the gumption to try a get things for herself.

It is part of why she is where she is.

as I now feel as if maybe planning to give her a flat, that's our property or otherwise, is the wrong choice. As she will not see the weight of her responsibility now etc

I suspect she'll feel every moment of the weight of her responsibility.

She'll have been moved out of her home and her support system. She'll be a single parent to an infant. She'll have to pay for everything - food, utilities, baby's things, council tax, nappies, baby clothes, pram, etc. - herself, either on benefits or on a small wage. She'll have to deal with negotiating access for her boyfriend. She'll have to deal with not being able to join her friends for nights out or travel or the various things that make one's 20s quite a lot of fun.

You sound quite angry. I understand that. But I don't think seeking to penalize her is a good way forward. Your original solution was a good one: you have the safety and security of knowing your child and grandchild have a roof over their heads, with the added bonus of not having your daughter show up at your door in desperation because her housing situation is unsafe or untenable or unaffordable.

If you were already planning to get her on the housing ladder, and you were always planning to be financially helpful in this way, then not doing it seems rather more like you're trying to punish her than like you think it's practically a bad idea.

I understand you want to support your daughter as best you can, but this isn't going to teach her to be independent and responsible, which are essential for parenthood. It's not about punishing her, but she can't expect Mum and Dad to sort out all of her crap decisions for her. She'll never grow up.

The main priority has to be to get her out of your house ASAP or you'll never be able to.

And before the bonkers liberals jump in, OP has made it 100% clear that DD is NOT going to be staying in her home with a baby.

In order to ensure that, moving her out quickly is absolutely essential now before it becomes impossible.

I think you’ll find the “bonkers liberals” have moved on @SofiaMichelle. What’s the urgency? The baby won’t be here until March.

Your DD is suffering from grief, guilt, loss and emotional problems. A new baby cannot fix her ; it WILL place additional stress on a very vulnerable immature girl who's in no state to cope with the 24/7 needs and responsibility of being a single parent.

She needs time to grieve, time to heal,  time to grow up,   and perhaps counselling to understand herself.  

Please don't do anything that encourages or enables her to think a baby will solve everything. As a mother, you know it won't.

So don't give her a free flat ( where she will be alone; prey to every flattering feckless heartless cocklodger in search of free sex and no rent).

Keep her close until she grows up.  Help her get the help she needs. So long as she's in YOUR home, you can  shield  her from invaders  trying to who take advantage of her neediness.

I think helping her with the deposit on a rented flat would be the most reasonable course - she'll have 8 months to learn to live independently, manage her money, and plan how she'll look after the baby.

But handing her a free flat won't provide the same sense of urgency to consider her finances as renting would.

I have family members who lived with their parents or in parents' properties well into their 40s because the parents couldn't deal with them struggling in any way - these people have never fully matured and a couple of them absolutely crumbled when their parents passed away because they were so reliant on them. Squandered the inheritance because they never had to manage money before.

The most kind thing to do is give a child the tools to look after themselves, not make the codependent. A little short-term stress may help OP's daughter re-evaluate her life and come up with a plan to improve her situation and that of her child.

You’re conviction and courage are both very commendable @checkyourpops. Your daughter knows she is loved and supported I don’t doubt, but you’re right to be as clear as you are being about the consequences of what she’s chosen to do. I hope when my own daughters are this age I’m as sensible as you’re being.

I hope everything goes well with your DD's pregnancy this time.

I think re: university she still has plenty of time to do that. She could well in the future decide she wants to progress and get a degree. Both my brother and I went to Uni as mature students. I had 2 children and my own home with a mortgage and got financial help with childcare etc. Financially it was very doable. But I would stick to the financial help with Uni only if she goes to Uni and not give it to her now on the basis she has not gone as otherwise it stops being an incentive to go to Uni as you originally planned.

I think help with housing is fine as long as you do the same for your DS. Whether that is help with a deposit for a rented flat, help with a mortgage deposit or actually buying a flat for them yourself. If you buy the flat yourself you should get her to pay the cost of the mortgage and then when she can to buy it from you or move on and buy her own place with financial help from you, again as long as DS received the same support.

I also think it would be fine to buy her for example a brand new pram as that is quite normal for prospective GPs to do but just the one big item and a few smaller things like babygros, blankets etc

Then help her to learn to be an adult. How to budget for all the things she will need to pay for - mortgage/rent, bills, food, nappies, toiletries, cleaning supplies etc . as well as the things she will need to buy in preparation for the baby. Talk to her about the reality of having a baby and what help she will expect from her boyfriend financially and practically. I would also put a proviso on the help with a home that she must continue to work so she is bringing in her own money.

I wish you all well for the future.

Keep her close until she grows up. Help her get the help she needs. So long as she's in YOUR home, you can shield her from invaders trying to who take advantage of her neediness.

RTFT.

Or just completely ignore OP's own wants, then.

OP you're in a difficult spot at the moment but it will become easier to see what the best course of action is in time. Only you can really decide how much or how little support she needs. Look into different options. She could rent and you could offer to pay half while she is on mat leave to help her out. She has made this decision based on grief, it is less than ideal but it is now your reality. It is too late to try and put her off the idea by showing her how tough it is to do it alone. It is now time to guide her and teach her how to manage her money, run a house and how to be a mother.

You could perhaps save the gifting of a flat for further down the line when she has shown you how responsible she can be with money and running a home, or at a time when she is trying to advance career prospects. She is still young amd will quite possibly decide to pursue a different career or advance the one she has when the financial weight of a family becomes clear.

You sound like you very much have her best interests at heart. Achieving the balance of not letting her struggle too much but still facilitating financial responsibility and independence wll be a tough one to manage but I'm sure you'll get there.

On the contrary, the pregnant teenagers I've known have wanted to continue their pregnancies.

But there were probably quite a few others that you never knew about because they terminated right away and didn't let it be widely known. Most teenage girls who get pregnant do terminate. Most terminations in all age groups are very early.

I'm glad your last update shows you recognise that moving her out to a house you fund is pretty much no different to her staying with you - she is still not acting as a responsible adult who chose to have a baby.

If you sort the house, she will expect the uni money, too - as you promised it.

When you said she would move out - I assumed she would do this on her own steam with help from you in paying the first month's deposit for rent - not buying her a home! She will never learn anything other than you will bail her out whatever choices she makes.

The fact she has not told her boyfriend is quite disgusting and manipulative, actually. I doubt he wanted this and although it's his choice to use protection, I doubt he thought he would end up being a dad like this. You've got to wonder if she said she was on the pill or whether she said, don't worry we can both live with my parents. They made the choice and they can fund the situation and their baby - not you.

The most kind thing to do is give a child the tools to look after themselves, not make the codependent. A little short-term stress may help OP's daughter re-evaluate her life and come up with a plan to improve her situation and that of her child.

Completely agree with this. Also based on family experience, unfortunately.

I know if seems like a huge deal, and it is. But she has, God willing, decades of life ahead of her. This really isn't the end. When the child is 18 she will still be in her thirties. Things will settle and become the new normal. Her life isn't over, she can still do so much even if later.

A previous poster suggested you owning the property and letting to your daughter/her partner. This would seem a much more sensible option to be honest.

I think if you're able to buy the flat but rent it to her (perhaps at reduced market rate but still a reasonable amount) then she learns to be independent but also has a level of security.

You could also put the rent into a fund for your DGC if you didn't want to profit of this current situation, given you sound financially very comfortable and won't actually need the rent money.

The best you can do is support her emotionally but encourage her to be independent as best you can.

for you as it's so tough having to stand by and watch her take this road when you know the difficulties she will face and the opportunities she is walking away from.

Was so nice to read your more positive post at the start of the thread Op.

Setting your DD up with her own place seems like a good way forward regardless of her pregnancy. I don't think comments about her lack of maturity are fair. She seems perfectly capable of holding down her job and can be relied on to step in as necessary around the house. She also seems to know her own mind and act accordingly. The next step is managing her own household and most people only learn to do this by having to.

I agree with pp that there is no rush and it is best to seek advice on the best ownership structure. Thoughts around parents owning to start with and a plan to gift in the future make sense.

I know lots of people with Uni student DC doing similar partly in their case because it isn't so tying for the DC if they want / need to move on graduation and in a couple of cases because it gives an opportunity to put things in place options with younger siblings coming through.

My Uni aged DD costs just as much for us to house in halls as she would for us to buy her somewhere local to us if it's any consolation and she still comes home in the holidays and reorders my house around herself.

I changed my username and was very critical on last thread. Gift the flat and then offering your ongoing support emotional, help when you can... sounds lovely and what I would do if I could.

I feel back to square one again, as I now feel as if maybe planning to give her a flat, that's our property or otherwise, is the wrong choice.

I can see how gifting her a flat would potentially be tricky. But buying a flat to keep as an investment for you and your DH and agreeing to timescales on when rent will become due might be a good avenue to explore?

For example, you say you'd have supported her through uni, so perhaps something like 'You can live in the flat rent-free for 3 years. Then we'll start charging you at market rates which are currently per month' or something along those lines. That way she has a year to get set up, a year to raise the baby, and a year to focus on preparing for full independence from your support. I guess it's difficult though because she could eventually turn round and go 'Sorry, haven't got the money this month' and you're unlikely to evict her... But based on your description of your DD it sounds like (broadly speaking) she's actually very switched on and capable so is this a likely risk?

Also I know there's a very famous saying that 'Fair doesn't always mean equal', but I would definitely be very conscious of your DS over the coming year/years. My father regularly says how he would never give me anything / worry about me because I'm all sorted, but he does worry about my younger sister and may need to support her more. Whilst he's right, it doesn't half sting when he says it. Not because of money, but because I have always had higher expectations set for me and any struggles I have/had are not acknowledged because "Curiosity will figure it out, she's capable". So long as your DS understands any support you've given and why then I'd hope it wouldn't be an issue.

I think your idea to buy a flat, keep it in your own name but let her live there is a good one. You'll be helping her save for a deposit , which she can use to buy that flat, or a place she finds herself. But she'll be responsible for managing her life in every other way like any other adult.

I'd also set a time limit on how long you'll let her live there for free, say when her child starts school, then she needs to find a job to fill the gap and pay you rent or move out.

At this point I think I'd stand back and let her make her own plans. See what she comes up with and if it's realistic in the long run. If so, let her do it 'her way' and offer the usual help parents offer when a child starts a family; a bit of cash to set up housekeeping, purchase baby things etc. Give her the chance to do it on her own, it'll be much better for her in the long run.

As far as buying a flat, if it goes that way, I certainly wouldn't put it in her name. There's just too much to lose if things go belly up, especially if she marries the wrong man. Keep it in your name and charge her a rent that falls within her means. I don't know how much the stamp duty would be or how it works (I'm not in the UK) but you could always put the rental amount towards replenishing your savings of the extra amount used. Or put the amount in a savings account for her to use if at some point the right time comes for her to buy it from you.

Our DS2 has had to move home due to Covid, the job market, and the sky high rental rates. He's paying us 'room and board' payment that (unknown to him) we're putting in savings for him to use for deposits and home goods once things return to (the new) normal.

I honestly think she could still go to university or at least continue her education and do very well for herself. So I wouldn’t worry about that. Her boyfriend needs to step up and find a way to support his ‘family’. I think I’d be trying to have a word with both of them together and see what their plans are. Perhaps she could move in with his family?

They are going to be relying on you and your husband to solve this for them. I think you need to bat it back and see what their plans are? You could tell then you are happy to offer them a certain amount of months rent to start them off. Or to give the deposit. Don’t be executor though!!! Then at least they could apply for UC help if that time comes which I don’t think would be possible if the house was owned by you.