Do I make DD give up rainbows/brownies because of school?

[RainbowsBrowniesLove]

DD is 6, very nearly 7 (end of July). Year 2.

Every week she has spellings and 2 pieces of homework to do.

If they get less than 50% on their spelling test on a Friday morning they lose 15 minutes of golden time on Friday afternoon.

If homework isn’t handed in on Thursday they lose 15 minutes of golden time on Friday to do the homework – so can lose half an hour.

They can also lose up to 15 minutes for bad behaviour throughout the week, so in theory they can lose the entire hour of golden time.

DD never does her homework. We do the reading and spellings but never the homework so she only ever gets at most 30 minutes of golden time.

1 night a week she swims for a half hour lesson immediately after school, we come home and she’s often tired but will attempt reading and sometimes spellings. If she’s too tired we read again in the morning, and I try and test her spellings on the walk to school but she doesn’t always want to.

1 night a week we go from school, have a quick bite to eat, change into rainbows uniform and off we go. This is currently a few nights after swimming but when she moves to Brownies after October Half Term it’ll be the night before swimming (Swimming is Tuesday and Rainbows Thursday, Brownies will be Mondays)

She will have to spell between 8 and 12 spellings, she usually gets between 0 and 3 right. School are saying she needs extra practice an extra night a week. Spellings are given out Monday after Fridays test so can’t even do extra practice over the weekend.

Part of me thinks she should give up Rainbows/Brownies to help school work as she can’t give up swimming for safety and medical reasons – we live in a town with a fast flowing river, a canal and a small lake, and she has a medical issue that’s greatly improved by swimming, school do 1 term of swimming in year 4 that’s it due to where the pool is compared to school (it’s not easily walkable so they have to charge parents to go and they never get 100% payment so it’s not financially feasible to do it more often) so she needs to learn to swim and the effect on her medical condition means I will not be stopping those lessons.

But then another part of me thinks that she was behind when she started school in 2018* and she benefits so much from Rainbows – she talks about it for days afterwards, has invited some of the girls from there to her party in July (she doesn’t know they’re coming though, as I haven’t told her yet) and it’s the one place she’s not with classmates (like at swimming) so not comparing herself to others. It’s one of the few places she’s her for her and not for her difficulties – she does everything at the same time as all the other girls, wears the same clothes/uniform and no-one but the group leader knows of her difficulties (none of the other leaders/helpers know as group leader felt it was need to know only). So I don’t want her to give that up. Also selfishly I was never allowed to join guiding as a child and always wanted to so the fact DD loves it also makes me incredibly happy.

*When she started school in 2018 she was 12 months behind and spent parts of the day in Reception out of the classroom with a TA trying to “plug the gaps”. Because of lockdown and her being unable to engage with most of the home learning (and school refusing her a place despite me, DDs paediatrician and DDs teacher begging for a place for her) and some medical treatment before Christmas where she missed a few weeks she’s now around 18 months behind. She has a communication disorder caused by joint problems that also cause mobility issues, she can also have issues with making it to the toilet on time. School also think she might be dyslexic and/or have hearing issues but won’t refer her for dyslexia assessment until the Christmas of year 3. She is also not currently getting targetted support school say due to covid, and it's obvious she's struggling with the actual work as well as spellings.

My ramblings come after we walked back from rainbows and I was testing her spellings for the week and she can’t spell any of them. We’ve practiced 3 times this week and she’s not got any right despite the practice.

For added context I am a single parent and she goes to ExH EOW, he will not take her to any activities, and she often misses parties of her friends if they fall on his weekend. He will not do schoolwork with her so an extension for the homework would only help on my weekends as I get her back from him too late on Sunday to do anything.

So do I stop rainbows/brownies or keep her there? Basically WWYD if it was your DD?

I apologise in advance if I drip feed I don’t know what other information people might want from me

I would be going absolutely nuclear at the SENCO.

You have a child who was identified as having difficulties at the start of reception, who has a joint problem, a communication disorder, and query dyslexia. On anybody's account this is a child with additional needs. The school are being uncommunicative and they are punishing her for being behind, when they are making absolutely bugger all effort to make reasonable adjustment for her and won't even give you a communication book and / or let you email the teacher.

I would be making an appointment to see the teacher and SENCO directly. Can't do that? The headteacher. No again? The governors. And I would want to know what steps they are taking, if they're not supporting an EHCP, to address the child's needs without one, other than by taking away golden time which evidently isn't an effective means of progressing her.

If you need help with the EHCP request / appeal, speak to Sunshine Support. They were absolutely invaluable when I was applying for my DD.

@Namechangeforthis88

I'm shocked that she is punished for finding spelling difficult. Potentially for having a learning difficulty. Appalling.

This. You need to advocate for your daughter. That policy is disgusting and discriminatory . They are discriminating against your daughter for having a disability. It's completely unacceptable.

Also an awful policy for those children who are just not as academically bright. What a way to turn young children off education altogether.

I am a teacher. I haven’t read it all but there is no way on earth you should stop any extra curricular. If she cannot manage the spellings they should be reduced or differentiated for her. You should be able to fit the homework in but if it’s too hard you must demand a change.

I would never ever ever ever punish a child for no homework. Just reward for doing it.

Spellings taught and tested this way don’t work but that’s another argument. If they did then spelling wouldn’t have got progressively worse every year I have taught!

People have mention EHCP and I don’t know the details of your child but I imagine they wouldn’t qualify. You need to be pretty much unable to make any progress in a mainstream these days to get one. They just seem a tool for people to get kids into special schools these days

You also need to go down the formal complaint route at this point.

Put it all in writing and send it to the Head and the governing body. There will be one , even if it's an academy. Perhaps cc the local authority special needs department.

This is appalling. And I'm a TA in a primary school. Absolutely appalling.

That's very poor on part of the school, not targeted support because of covid? She obviously needs extra support and also a different level of spellings differentiated to her ability.

I've been a school psychologist all my working life. If I've understood right, she is too young to be responsible for policing her own homework. She is a child and needs a childhood. Also down time.
She has some physical difficulties and possibly some minor special needs as well as a new school to cope with. She is getting very tired. From what you say school is not differentiating work for her. All children learn at different paces. School has an absolute responsibility to provide appropriate work for her and no one in that or any school should be punished because they can't do work that has been set too hard for them. Your job is to feed her nutritionally, get her to bed early and oversee homework. Look at Topping style paired reading (the one where the kids are in charge) and do 10 mins every night. If she's too tired you read alone and ask her to follow you. Let her choose the book. That's all. It works. Don't just wait for an assessment and someone else to fix things. Ask for a meeting with the classy teacher and special needs coordinator and try and work together.

NO don't stop her fun activities go down to the school and insist she gets differentited spellings and stop punishing the kids for not getting enough right. I'd be bloody fuming at that.

Agree with the consensus. Keep her at rainbows/brownies.
Taking away time for an inability to spell is unreasonable, unfair and potentially discriminatory given that the school has already implied dyslexia.
School need to be supporting you with getting her the help she needs. I'd be pushing back to them on this.

Battle for the EHCP.

Change schools.

If doing some worksheets gets golden time then - as an interim measure - do them and give your DD the answers so she just writes in what you tell her.

The school's approach is in the dark ages

People have mention EHCP and I don’t know the details of your child but I imagine they wouldn’t qualify. You need to be pretty much unable to make any progress in a mainstream these days to get one. They just seem a tool for people to get kids into special schools these days sad

No, some LAs take this attitude, unfortunately, but there is a legal framework and LAs can't just decide to opt out.

If she has a disability that means they shoukd make reasonable adjustmebts for her under equality laws. To me that would mean that as she is struggling with spellings due to potential dyslexia (or something else) then they should allow her longer to learn them if that would help.

If she doesnt have an ehcp or equivalent then apply for one. Sendiass will advise

Didn't read it all. I don't think what the school is doing sounds normal. My year 2 child doesn't get homework just the expectation that he will play on the paid for spelling and timestable apps. There's no prize or incentive to do them from the school although luckily she's mostly aggreable to it. It's just a local state primary. Maybe get together with some other parents and approach the school about this

Is transferring to another school an option? This school sounds horrendous, like they really don't know what they're doing. I'd be quite worried about the lasting effect this has on your daughter and her attitude to learning. This isn't good, seriously OP, this sort of crap really damages motivation and self confidence.

Absolutely not. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy, as the saying goes, and if she enjoys Brownies/Rainbows, which she clearly does from what you say, she should keep up with it. It's the school who are being ridiculous. She's fucking SEVEN. Do they make allowances for special needs kids?

No, don't make her world smaller.

This is ridiculous, shocking and infuriating. Personally, I'd be moving my DD's school. Losing 15 minutes of Golden Time despite dyslexia fears, FFS.

I understand the pressure, but you must be your DD's advocate. She needs support and she needs to realise life doesn't stop if you can't spell. She needs more in her life, not less. More brownies, more swimming, more stuff that isn't about what she struggles with.

If you start like this now, by the time she's on A levels she will have to give up breathing.

Don't give up anything. Do everything. School life gets seriously shit at GCSE and A level age, with the time left for living getting cut down to literally nothing by A levels. They work longer hours than a full-time job.

Do everything now and continue to make the most of everything until GCSEs.

One Brownie session is not the different between passing or failing spellings. Make the time somewhere else. Less TV, less screen time etc. Do 30 minutes before school.

Also, if you can afford it, there are lovely online groups for children with dyslexia. It's normalised, there is specialist support at an early stage and you can relax and feel someone else is really helping. One to one specialist support is undeniably expensive but the group sessions can be quite affordable.

Also, please make a complaint about the Golden Time BS.

That should be knocked on the head.

Btw I think it's pretty horrendous of a school to expect a child with suspected dyslexia to meet the same spelling test requirements as a child without suspected dyslexia and to make them miss golden time due to a potential special educational need or disability. That is not ethical and needs pursuing. I remember how gutted my child was to miss golden time, it means a lot to them at that age.

As pp says, contact special needs organisations. There will be a parent carer organisation for your county (definitely a carers organisation - and you should look into getting the support you need as a parent carer (no-one tells you this stuff, you have to make yourself known to them). There is SENDIAS and many other support groups.

Personally I think that you need to fight for her a bit more instead of relying on the teacher to do the right thing.
Email the secretary and insist that her teacher or the head calls you back re her being punished for what you think may well be a learning difficulty.
Also, phone your paediatrician and ask for an assessment in person or for them to give you a referral for an assessment. My daughter has a speech sound delay. I've had to really push to get an assessment and was fobbed off that she didn't require one as she was fine. So I went back to the Dr and insisted that we submit again, pointing out why I contested their decision. Eventually received a basic assessment. Was told that, actually, yes I was right! (Who's have thought that I knew my own child who I spend actual time with over the views of someone who had never actually met her!). Of course, there was been nothing since from the NHS speech and language services. I have now paid for a private assessment (which isn't cheap) and sessions. And I have also been watching YouTube videos/reading online for learning strategies to help her. I have now informed the school that I will be taking her out one afternoon a week for a speech therapy session and also to allow me the time to focus on her speech one to one with her. They were fine with this. Although I didn't seek permission, but simply told them. They obviously want the best for her too and it seems like a sensible decision. I really think that you have to fight, be proactive and push for any assistance. And if you are able to afford any private assessments, then I think that you should. I've had to choose between her speech and a family holiday this year (made slightly easier by covid admittedly), but it just seemed that something needed to be done. The private speech therapist has also been my advocate and set out her professional action plan so that school can also be on board.

Speak to school about needing the weekend to practice. We both worked and so many nights wouldn't get home till 5.30/6.00 with swimming and brownies/cubs on top and so homework/reading/spelling practice happened on a weekend. We were all just to tired mid week to do very much.

This is appalling. I have a dyslexic DD. I have had several meetings with both the teacher and the senco to discuss progress etc. They let her in lockdown school and that’s without the difficulties your DD has!

You need to contact the school and ask for a meeting with the senco. If they don’t reply contact the governor with responsibilities for SN.

Can you pay for a private dyslexia assessment? We did this and they then have to treat it seriously. It is so horrendous that they effectively punish her for a disability. My DD is year three and spelling at year one level. I’d be horrified if she was treated like yours.

Definately dont give up Rainbows or Brownies, Id be seriously complaining at the school!

I haven’t read the whole thread, but I’m a teacher and this made me so sad.

1. Golden Time is very old hat now. Punishing children on a Friday afternoon for misdemeanours collected through the week is pointless. Some 6 year olds will have absolutely no recollection of what it was they did wrong on a Monday morning to lose time on a Friday afternoon. Some 6 year olds will spend those same five days worrying, stressing or feeling ashamed of themselves in the run up to Golden Time. Consequences should be immediate and relevant or restorative.

1. Spelling tests for children who consistently get the majority of the spellings wrong is cruel and detrimental to their confidence. Your DD probably feels miserable getting the words wrong every week, despite putting effort in. Punishing her on top of this is shocking.

1. The school is failing your child. It sounds like she has a learning difficulty and needs learning support. It doesn’t matter how stretched the school is, they have a responsibility to get it right for your child.

1. It sounds like she loves Brownies. Let her go, let her enjoy herself. It will be so important for her confidence and self esteem.

1. Please arrange a meeting with the headteacher to discuss how they plan to support your child. At the very least, she shouldn’t have to endure spelling tests and should be learning simpler words at her level.

Children should be celebrated at school for the effort they put in and the personal progress that they make. They should never be knocked down or shamed for failing, especially in front of their peers.

Agree don’t stop it if she is enjoying it 👍