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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to let my boyfriend and his daughter sleep over

324 replies

FeelingUnsureNow · 08/06/2021 00:04

Just that really. Been seeing bf for 8 months. Because of our jobs and distance, we only see each other once or twice a week and we are really great together. My 16 year old son is cool with sleepovers, his 12 year old is cool with it but my 14 year old daughter is not happy. She likes him, is indifferent to his daughter and doesn't want them to sleepover because she feels like it's an invasion of her space. Fair call, I think but not sure how to tell him without offending. I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable for letting them stay. Be kind please. Just trying to get perspective and do the right thing.

OP posts:
soreenqueen21 · 09/06/2021 12:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KurtWilde · 09/06/2021 12:42

@Whythesadface

Yes, people are saying the children stopped the mums having a life. Which is why in a post before I said you explain, if a child can have sleepovers so can the mum. 90% of us are not going to be having loads of men , we will be inviting someone we care about to visit, after getting into a relationship of many months.
Absolutely not the same as a child having a sleepover. At all.
ChequerBoard · 09/06/2021 12:59

@Whythesadface

Yes, people are saying the children stopped the mums having a life. Which is why in a post before I said you explain, if a child can have sleepovers so can the mum. 90% of us are not going to be having loads of men , we will be inviting someone we care about to visit, after getting into a relationship of many months.

This is such a dumb post. On what planet do you think a child having a friend to sleepover is the same as a mother introducing a new man to her kids and having him share her bed?

If you really can't see how these two events are completely incomparable then I despair of you and question your ability to make good choices.

PolkadotFlamingos · 09/06/2021 15:16

@QuentinBunbury

Are you for real? You've tried to google studies about the effects of a parent imposing new partners into children's lives against their wishes and came up with nothing??

Yes I did. You keep telling me that this is scientifically accepted consensus, and empirically proven psychology. I was interested to see the evidence. All I could find was information about step parents, which doesn't seem at all applicable to OPs scenario. (And FWIW it also appears that outcomes for children in step parent set ups are damaging when the other parent isn't involved, and single parents in the same situation are only slightly better in terms of outcomes).

So. I think if you are going to accuse the OP of potentially damaging their child you should be able to back that up. Otherwise, yeah, you are being arrogant and unpleasant.

No. What posters have been objecting to is introduction of a new partner at a very early stage in the relationship because the relationship has not yet stood the test of time as being stable. This often leads to the introduction of multiple partners over time and is very destabilising for children. This is particularly bad if the new partner is imposed into the family dynamic and home when the children have said they are uncomfortable with it.

See Dunn et. al. (1998) for evidence that repeated changes in family structure lead to more negative outcomes for children following family separation.

Roberts (2002) showed that children with a stable home environment with a single parent had better outcomes than those whose resident parent went on to have new partners.

And many more. It's not new reaearch, the differences in outcomes based on these factors were established in the scientific literature decades ago.

PolkadotFlamingos · 09/06/2021 15:18

@Whythesadface

What about a mums right to a life? People say their mums imposed boyfriends on them, but what harm is done to a mother who gave up her youth and love life for neatly 20 years, for children who then leave her alone and almost never visit. Lots of women on MN have second partners because a marriage broke down leaving the husband free to be Disney dad's who then have no guilt thrown at them when they marry and carry on life.
As has been stated by many posters, a resident parent can have "a life" and a nee partner without bringing them into the family home, especially when that makes the children uncomfortable.
PolkadotFlamingos · 09/06/2021 15:23

Roberts (2002) showed that children with a stable home environment with a single parent had better outcomes than those whose resident parent went on to have new partners.

To clarify, that is when new partners were introduced into the family. If the relationship was kept separate to the children and family home then there is no negative impact.

KeepingTrack · 09/06/2021 15:49

What sort of life has the woman have then Polka?

Look at the OP and her partner. Their different shifts means meeting is difficult. They might not have money for a hotel as it has been proposed many times of this thread.
It is not always possible for single parent to separate their ‘private life’ and family. For women who have their dcs with them dull time, aka no EOW etc..it basically means no life.

And I think that’s crap.

I would also argue that studies NEVER reflect what is happening in individual cases.
So one parent never see their partner with the dcs, never introduce them but said partner is still crap and abusive. The parent is getting anxious, stressed etc... that will have an I pact in the dcs.
One parent sees their partner and then said partner moves in. They move from poverty and financial ability to a more settled situation. The Relationship between the partner and the dc is good, good communication. I’m pretty sure the impact is going to be positive.

Etc etc

It’s like people saying that children are ALWAYS better off to see their parents divorced, forgetting the impact that warring parents have or what happens when one of the parent is abusive and is using the dcs as a weapon against the other parent.

Studies are good, but even in medicine, it’s not because studies have shown that medication A is great for tension headache or s contraception, that said medication Awill be suitable for everyone.

KurtWilde · 09/06/2021 16:02

KeepingTrack of course it's possible to keep your love life and your parenting separate, many of us with DC full time manage it!

PolkadotFlamingos · 09/06/2021 16:05

@KeepingTrack

What sort of life has the woman have then Polka?

Look at the OP and her partner. Their different shifts means meeting is difficult. They might not have money for a hotel as it has been proposed many times of this thread.
It is not always possible for single parent to separate their ‘private life’ and family. For women who have their dcs with them dull time, aka no EOW etc..it basically means no life.

And I think that’s crap.

I would also argue that studies NEVER reflect what is happening in individual cases.
So one parent never see their partner with the dcs, never introduce them but said partner is still crap and abusive. The parent is getting anxious, stressed etc... that will have an I pact in the dcs.
One parent sees their partner and then said partner moves in. They move from poverty and financial ability to a more settled situation. The Relationship between the partner and the dc is good, good communication. I’m pretty sure the impact is going to be positive.

Etc etc

It’s like people saying that children are ALWAYS better off to see their parents divorced, forgetting the impact that warring parents have or what happens when one of the parent is abusive and is using the dcs as a weapon against the other parent.

Studies are good, but even in medicine, it’s not because studies have shown that medication A is great for tension headache or s contraception, that said medication Awill be suitable for everyone.

Of course there are rare cases that are statistical anomalies, like with everything. But that is why studies follow scientific method so that they prove a statistically significant difference^^ in outcomes that is attributable to the specific factors being investigated.

Ignoring such research because it may not apply in your specific case or you know someone who was lucky and it worked out fine for is comparable to somebody saying "well studies show that smoking is dangerous but my grandma smoked and lived to 105 so it's fine". Anecdotes don't trump data.

Of course people ideally would consider the evidence and make an informed choice based on their own situation and risk assessment. But I don't think simply ignoring the evidence, or denying it exists because it is unpalatable or inconvenient, is a good approach. I'd always rather make evidence-based decisions personally, particularly when it comes to my children, but that's me.

There are always ways to organise things if the will is there from both parties. Babysitters, evenings out etc etc. The idea you can't have a relationship without bringing a man into your children's home really isn't true. These children are teenagers so will likely have left home by the time the relationship matures sufficiently for moving in together to become a sensible option, if it does stand the test of time and indeed if the OP and her partner even want to do that!

I think that though it may be inconvenient, as a resident parent it's reasonable to accept that a new relationship will need to go at a slower pace than if one were single. And I say this as a single parent of young children who will need to make such compromises for their wellbeing for far longer than the OP will need to do so.

PolkadotFlamingos · 09/06/2021 16:10

So one parent never see their partner with the dcs, never introduce them but said partner is still crap and abusive. The parent is getting anxious, stressed etc... that will have an I pact in the dcs. One parent sees their partner and then said partner moves in. They move from poverty and financial ability to a more settled situation. The Relationship between the partner and the dc is good, good communication. I’m pretty sure the impact is going to be positive.

I suppose the key point is that the evidence shows that these outcomes are outliers. If the majority of situations worked out this way, rather than the introduction of new partners having a negative impact on the children, then the conclusions of the studies would have been the opposite!

KeepingTrack · 09/06/2021 16:43

With differing shifts @KurtWilde?

Could you explain to me how this works?

KeepingTrack · 09/06/2021 16:44

When women are given the pill and they have side effects such as weight gain, depression etc... are they outliers too?

Research is showing what statistically seems to be working. It says nothing about the fact it might or might not be working in a specific case.

KurtWilde · 09/06/2021 16:57

@KeepingTrack

With differing shifts *@KurtWilde*?

Could you explain to me how this works?

You talk like none of us have ever had to do it! I'm a mum and a step mum. When I first got involved with my step children's dad we saw each other during the school day if we could manage it, for lunch, sometimes. We booked occasional days off so we could spend more time together. There was absolutely no rush to start playing happy families or speed things up. We enjoyed our random meet ups. Also baby sitters exist. It was at least 12 months before we met each other's DC, and even then we didn't do overnights until it felt ok with everyone! I still have a lovely relationship with my now adult step children even though my relationship with their dad ended - on good terms I might add, it just ran it's course but we remain good friends.
PolkadotFlamingos · 09/06/2021 17:04

@KeepingTrack

When women are given the pill and they have side effects such as weight gain, depression etc... are they outliers too?

Research is showing what statistically seems to be working. It says nothing about the fact it might or might not be working in a specific case.

Lol! Those are common side effects of the pill based on research. So of course it us expected that a significant proportion of women taking that medication develop them.

Nobody has said that new relationships will have negative outcomes for children in every single case. The point is that it is highly likely that the impact will be negative if you mix a new relationship with your children and home life. Why would you take this risk to your children's wellbeing in the hope you might just be lucky enough to be the exception? You have no way to know this in advance. And given that the OP's daughter is already unhappy with the situation, it's even more likely that in this particular case it will be damaging like it usually is.

The issue here seems to be a lack of understanding of statistics.

QuentinBunbury · 09/06/2021 18:23

Thanks for the links polka
See Dunn et. al. (1998) for evidence that repeated changes in family structure lead to more negative outcomes for children following family separation.

Is it this one? Because you've totally misunderstood the findings if so
acamh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/1469-7610.00413

The study compared step families, biological families and single parents.
I can only read the abstract which says

higher levels of problems and lower prosocial scores [were] reported for those in single- and step-parent families than those in non-stepfamilies. Individual differences within each family setting were marked. With the exception of single parenthood, which remained a risk indicator for the 4-year-olds, the contribution of family type to differences in adjustment and prosocial behaviour largely disappeared when account was also taken of negativity in family relationships, maternal age, education level, depressive symptomatology, and history of previous live-in relationships, mothers' support networks, and the family's current financial and housing circumstances

OP isn't in a step family or a setting with a history of repeated live in relationships so this doesn't at all support your assertion she's putting her daughter at risk Confused

I can't find a Roberts, 2002 peer reviewed citation that even looks like it covers this topic. Working off Google still as don't have access to academic literature. Perhaps you could provide more details?

Whythesadface · 09/06/2021 19:43

Pointing out to the child that having some stay over at a home effects everyone IS a valid point of view.
This teen needs to see if the mum is willing to allow a friends over which in a few years will possible mean the partner of that child, legally less than 2 years before that child could be the one who wants their sexual partner in the house.
Or are we going to pretend that in this case only the teen will NEVER want this.

PolkadotFlamingos · 09/06/2021 20:20

@QuentinBunbury

Thanks for the links polka See Dunn et. al. (1998) for evidence that repeated changes in family structure lead to more negative outcomes for children following family separation.

Is it this one? Because you've totally misunderstood the findings if so
acamh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/1469-7610.00413

The study compared step families, biological families and single parents.
I can only read the abstract which says

higher levels of problems and lower prosocial scores [were] reported for those in single- and step-parent families than those in non-stepfamilies. Individual differences within each family setting were marked. With the exception of single parenthood, which remained a risk indicator for the 4-year-olds, the contribution of family type to differences in adjustment and prosocial behaviour largely disappeared when account was also taken of negativity in family relationships, maternal age, education level, depressive symptomatology, and history of previous live-in relationships, mothers' support networks, and the family's current financial and housing circumstances

OP isn't in a step family or a setting with a history of repeated live in relationships so this doesn't at all support your assertion she's putting her daughter at risk Confused

I can't find a Roberts, 2002 peer reviewed citation that even looks like it covers this topic. Working off Google still as don't have access to academic literature. Perhaps you could provide more details?

I use JSTOR to look at academic research. Or you could just go to the library. There is a wealth of research on these topics over many decades. I've already cuted twi specific studies you could start with if you don't have the research skills to look for yourself. Not sure what you are expecting, do you expect me to pay subscriptions to academic journals for you? Why are you pretending to have knowledge in this area if you don't even have access to the academic resources on the subject matter? Confused
KurtWilde · 09/06/2021 20:35

@Whythesadface

Pointing out to the child that having some stay over at a home effects everyone IS a valid point of view. This teen needs to see if the mum is willing to allow a friends over which in a few years will possible mean the partner of that child, legally less than 2 years before that child could be the one who wants their sexual partner in the house. Or are we going to pretend that in this case only the teen will NEVER want this.
Don't be ridiculous there's absolutely no comparison whatsoever.
QuentinBunbury · 09/06/2021 22:21

Why are you pretending to have knowledge in this area if you don't even have access to the academic resources on the subject matter?
Because you appear to be talking arse. You provided two citations, one of which doesn't say what you said it did, one of which doesn't exist.
I never said I had knowledge but I do have an academic background and can spot bad science when I see it. And I hate people spouting bollocks when people are asking for help.

PolkadotFlamingos · 09/06/2021 23:54

@QuentinBunbury

Why are you pretending to have knowledge in this area if you don't even have access to the academic resources on the subject matter? Because you appear to be talking arse. You provided two citations, one of which doesn't say what you said it did, one of which doesn't exist. I never said I had knowledge but I do have an academic background and can spot bad science when I see it. And I hate people spouting bollocks when people are asking for help.
Both exist and it's clear you've read neither.
PolkadotFlamingos · 09/06/2021 23:55

And of you have an academic background presumably you'd have access to the academic literature and be able to access it? Or by "academic background" do you really mean "I studied something once". 😂

PolkadotFlamingos · 10/06/2021 00:35

What a sensible post

As a response to one of the most deluded posts on the entire thread. 🤷🏻‍♀️🤣

PolkadotFlamingos · 10/06/2021 00:39

Because you appear to be talking arse

What a mature and well-informed response. 🙄🤣

PolkadotFlamingos · 10/06/2021 00:41

I'm really done with this thread now. Tried to post factual information to help with informed choices and have a rational discussion but it's met with insults. Good luck everyone, and please protect your children.

MrsBongiovi · 10/06/2021 00:48

Why on earth are the kids being involved so early in the relationship? Crazy.

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