AIBU to let my boyfriend and his daughter sleep over

[FeelingUnsureNow]

Just that really. Been seeing bf for 8 months. Because of our jobs and distance, we only see each other once or twice a week and we are really great together. My 16 year old son is cool with sleepovers, his 12 year old is cool with it but my 14 year old daughter is not happy. She likes him, is indifferent to his daughter and doesn't want them to sleepover because she feels like it's an invasion of her space. Fair call, I think but not sure how to tell him without offending. I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable for letting them stay. Be kind please. Just trying to get perspective and do the right thing.

Putting children first is not making their needs exclusive to all other needs. That's what creates the issues that are discussed on other threads.

Not forcing a 14 year old girl to have an adult male she barely knows stay overnight in her home when she's specifically told her mother it makes her uncomfortable is not making her needs "exclusive to all other needs".

Selfish behaviour is not a consequence of being happy or wanting to be happy. Selfish parents are selfish irrespective of their level of happiness.

Selfish behaviour by definition is prioritising your needs over the needs of others. We all do this to different extents: some of it is healthy (not putting up with abuse from another adult); some of it is understandable (prioritising one's own family over the needs of strangers); and some of it is wrong (prioritising one's desires over the needs of one's children).

@PolkadotFlamingos

Putting children first is not making their needs exclusive to all other needs. That's what creates the issues that are discussed on other threads.

Not forcing a 14 year old girl to have an adult male she barely knows stay overnight in her home when she's specifically told her mother it makes her uncomfortable is not making her needs "exclusive to all other needs".

Well taken out of context. That was a response to the posts that saying children are happy when their parents are happy, was just self serving for the parents. Nothing to do with the specifics of any situation.

I'm keen for him to spend a bit more time here because he's a fantastic role model which is something her father wasnt. I want her to know how a man should treat a lady so she knows what to accept and what not to accept when she's older.

This has disaster written all over it. There is no way she would see him as a father figure. I’m glad you’ve decided to tell him no.

I'm happy to tell him no but it will be awkward. His last relationship was abusive (to him) and he's a sensitive soul. I think he'll understand but it will hurt his feelings if I'm honest about it.

I wonder how often he gets away with things because he’s a sensitive soul and softy who can rarely be told no.

Well taken out of context. That was a response to the posts that saying children are happy when their parents are happy, was just self serving for the parents. Nothing to do with the specifics of any situation.

It wasn't taken out of context at all. If you actually believe that children are happy when their parents prioritise their own happiness over their children's happiness then you're wrong and you need to read some scientific studies on psychology.

Every need or action that makes you happy doesn't need to be to the detriment of someone else be it your children or another adult.

Did I ever say 'prioritise over their own children's happiness' of course not. Maybe parents and children can all be happy. Maybe the children being happy makes the parents happy. Maybe the parents being happy makes the children happy.
Maybe nobody should be happy.

@ClareBlue

Every need or action that makes you happy doesn't need to be to the detriment of someone else be it your children or another adult.

Of course it doesn't. But when it is - because often interests do conflict - the relative benefit/ harm to the individuals involved needs to be considered.

A 14 year old girl who is made to feel miserable and uncomfortable in her own home through this crucial developmental stage may have long-term harm from this. If the OP instead meets her boyfriend 30 mins away in between where they live and doesn't impose him on her DD's family home against her will, it will be mildly inconvenient for a few years (if the relationship which is a few months long actually endures). I think the balance of potential benefit/ harm is pretty clear.

@ClareBlue

Did I ever say 'prioritise over their own children's happiness' of course not. Maybe parents and children can all be happy. Maybe the children being happy makes the parents happy. Maybe the parents being happy makes the children happy. Maybe nobody should be happy.

Sometimew children and parents can both be happy.

Sometimes they are not.

Sometimes children are happy and parents make do.

Sometimes parents pursue their own happiness to the detriment of their children's happiness.

Is this a lesson in tautologies? What's your point?

@ClareBlue

Did I ever say 'prioritise over their own children's happiness' of course not. Maybe parents and children can all be happy. Maybe the children being happy makes the parents happy. Maybe the parents being happy makes the children happy. Maybe nobody should be happy.

Yeah they can be. But often they are not. Parents being happy is not enough - on its own - to make a child happy for very obvious reasons as the child has other basic needs that must be met, and higher level emotional needs that all parents with a conscience would wish to meet.

So, when the needs conflict, should the parent put themselves first, or make some small sacrifices (e.g. tolerate the minor inconveniences of meeting for dates halfway between their house and their boyfriend's house, or hiring a babysitter and going to a hotel for the night) rather than make their child feel uncomfortable in their own home?

It's astonishing that some people seem to find this such a difficult question to grapple with when the answer is so obvious.

It's your daughter's home. She needs to feel happy and safe. It's not fair on her.

It starts early, the whole 'make yourself uncomfortable to make a man happy' indoctrination

Equally, so does the "you must prioritise your child's every whim, regardless of context and your own needs, or you an awful, selfish person who is going to scar them for life" indoctrination. Let's not pretend OP only wants him to stay so as not to upset him, after all, she wants him to stay for her.

There is a middle ground to be found here and it is seldom reached on MN.

No...she’s mostly worried about how offended he’s going to be and how his sensitive soul will cope.

I’ve got no time at all for mummy martyrdom. But OP’s daughter has told her that she does not feel comfortable and that should be respected.

Exactly. I have my kids 100% of the time. You pay for babsitters, grab moments where you can and you have less sex than you would like. I am pretty surprised so many people feel it's ok for a boyfriend of 8 months and his child to sleep over when one child, at a really vulnerable age is not happy about it. Home has to be a safe place and putting the child first means that sometimes these things take longer to get going than we'd like

Thank you. I'm glad lots of posters have posted sane views on this. I agree with you completely.

@aSofaNearYou

It starts early, the whole 'make yourself uncomfortable to make a man happy' indoctrination

Equally, so does the "you must prioritise your child's every whim, regardless of context and your own needs, or you an awful, selfish person who is going to scar them for life" indoctrination. Let's not pretend OP only wants him to stay so as not to upset him, after all, she wants him to stay for her.

There is a middle ground to be found here and it is seldom reached on MN.

It is not a "whim" for a 14 year old girl to be uncomfortable with an adult man who is pretty much a stranger staying in her home. And no doubt she's concerned that if she endures this once it sets a precedent and then this will become a regular thing.

I would never do this to my DD. I find people defending the idea really upsetting actually, remembering how it made me feel living this as an early teen.

I’ve got no time at all for mummy martyrdom. But OP’s daughter has told her that she does not feel comfortable and that should be respected.

Exactly!

@PolkadotFlamingos

Exactly. I have my kids 100% of the time. You pay for babsitters, grab moments where you can and you have less sex than you would like. I am pretty surprised so many people feel it's ok for a boyfriend of 8 months and his child to sleep over when one child, at a really vulnerable age is not happy about it. Home has to be a safe place and putting the child first means that sometimes these things take longer to get going than we'd like

Thank you. I'm glad lots of posters have posted sane views on this. I agree with you completely.

Agree with this.

I find people defending the idea really upsetting actually, remembering how it made me feel living this as an early teen.

By this I meant that I assumed people's attitudes and values had changed, but from this thread it seems many still think in the same way.

Having attachment figures is healthy for everyone, in children this is usually a parent, in teens their friends and in adults their partner.

You are actually asking op to do something emotionally damaging to her, on the basis of your pop psychology "empire evidence" pseudo woo.
Go and find me one piece of evidence to back up your claim that OPs DD could suffer long term harm from her mums boyfriend staying over one night.

You won't be able to, because the evidence of harm comes from dysfunctional/disordered families, not a standard family where occasionally the teenager doesn't get their own way

I have no idea why I'm adding to this post but here goes.... A summary:
I have been seeing my bf for 8 months. He stayed here twice between the 5th and 7th months when neither child was here. He stayed over once last month with his daughter after a late dinner and wet weather when it made no sense to drive.
I am not someone who is looking for somewhere to shag. There has been no shagging when kids have been here and even if there was, it would be in the quiet confines of a locked bedroom on the other side of the house.
I don't expect this man to suddenly start fathering my children but comments made by my daughter when she first met him, made me realise that she had not seen a very healthy relationship before. This is something I want for my children. I'm not old fashioned - I just worded it incorrectly.
My daughter is actually not unhappy that I'm seeing him. You can analyse that comment if you like but when you're daughter tells you out of the blue that she likes that I'm smiling again and encourages me to see him, it is said genuinely. My dd is very direct and doesn't sugar coat anything so when she says something, you know it's true.
I haven't and would never parade different men into my house.
I do like this man very much though due to my ex's delusions, I'm very wary of people. I have not let my guard down at all and not once on my posts have I sung about how 'wonderful' he is. I have merely pointed out his admirable qualities.
I don't believe there is any selfishness in wanting to share your life with another adult. I also have no intention of blending our families anytime soon - we are both very aware of the realities with kids of our ages.
I started this relationship on the advice of my counselor as a distraction from my long lasting grief over past events. There was no shagging, sorry to report - just a nice friendship. As it turned out we had a lot in common and we are keen to see where it goes. I was a mess before I met him. And no, I am not telling people to get a man to be happy but for me, meeting him has been good for everyone.
I'm a much better parent when I'm not engulfed with grief.
We have struggled with the distance a little because his shift work means he's sleeping while I'm working and vice versa. Add the fact that he has his daughter every day and night that he doesn't work and it does make it difficult to see each other. Despite that, we feel like best friends - lots of texting and phone chats are also a way to get to know someone.
That should summarise the facts.
My question was simple. I was unsure if I was being reasonable about having them stay. Some of the answers were very helpful, thank you. The mean spirited ones were also interesting but it makes me sad that we live in such a negative, cynical world.

[quote Subbaxeo]@PolkadotFlamingos, I get what you’re saying, but in my circle there are some very happy step-families. My daughter’s friend lost her mother while young-her dad is remarried and they are a lovely, happy family. To follow the advice of some posters, he would have had to treat his new wife like a bit on the side, as if she were something to be ashamed of. Children can adapt to new people in their lives-especially if the new person is kind, friendly and makes an effort to get to know them. Introducing a new partner doesn’t automatically make the home unstable. Different partners paraded through the home are another matter. In some ways, it’s what they’re used to. My children were used to us having friends to dinner and staying over, so when my now husband stayed as my guest, it wasn’t a big deal. They had got to know him before that. So sure, for casual boyfriends, absolutely keep that life separate but a serious partner is different.[/quote]
This is not the same situation at all.

If your DD friend who had tragically lost her mother had expressed anxiety around being invaded in her own home at that time then I really hope that her DF would have listened.

It’s wonderful that she has a happy family unit now. That’s all anyone wants for their DCs. Maybe it took some time and was handled sensitively and paced appropriately by the adults involved to meet the developing or compromised complex emotional needs of the child involved.

@QuentinBunbury

Having attachment figures is healthy for everyone, in children this is usually a parent, in teens their friends and in adults their partner.

You are actually asking op to do something emotionally damaging to her, on the basis of your pop psychology "empire evidence" pseudo woo.
Go and find me one piece of evidence to back up your claim that OPs DD could suffer long term harm from her mums boyfriend staying over one night.

You won't be able to, because the evidence of harm comes from dysfunctional/disordered families, not a standard family where occasionally the teenager doesn't get their own way

Straw man.

Nobody said she'd suffer harm from him staying one night. I mean, she's said she's uncomfortable with it so it may impact her relationship with her mother if her mother does it regardless, but long-term "harm" from that is a bit much and not what anybody has said.

However, if this is a first step to it becoming a regular thing, and she feels uncomfortable in her own home and feels she has to hide in her bedroom regularly or go out to be away from it, that is harmful. Home is no longer a safe space which is essential as an early teen, for mental health. She won't have the same relationship with her mother, won't feel her home is secure and predictable: this is not an age where upsetting stability is a good idea. At all. Particularly as the OP has said already that she is emotionally vulnerable and sometimes clingy; she needs to be made to feel MORE secure, have more one-to-one time, not less. Surely in this situation we'd all do what we could to repair the damage done to the DD by the previous family events, as much as possible, not potentially create even more upset and emotional confusion? Keep the new relationship away from the house and focus on getting her a good counsellor who can help her work through the complicated feelings she seems to have about her family and her father?

I find it bizarre that so many people are scathing of mothers who work when their children are toddlers but have so little regard for their children's needs when they are teenagers: in many ways that is when they need us most, certainly emotionally. To disregard her feelings and make her feel uncomfortable in her home at this age will be a disaster that will play out down the years. I cannot fathom why anyone would consider this just to make their dates more convenient.

@Ninkanink

No...she’s mostly worried about how offended he’s going to be and how his sensitive soul will cope.

I’ve got no time at all for mummy martyrdom. But OP’s daughter has told her that she does not feel comfortable and that should be respected.

She's mentioned that a couple of times, but it also surely goes without saying that she wants him to stay because she is in a happy relationship with him. I think it's a bit misleading to claim she's doing it just to keep the man happy.

And if her daughter claims to never feel comfortable with it? The tone of the vast majority of the comments on this thread is very much in favour of mummy martyrdom. Where do you draw the line, if you have no time for it?

@FeelingUnsureNow

I have no idea why I'm adding to this post but here goes.... A summary: I have been seeing my bf for 8 months. He stayed here twice between the 5th and 7th months when neither child was here. He stayed over once last month with his daughter after a late dinner and wet weather when it made no sense to drive. I am not someone who is looking for somewhere to shag. There has been no shagging when kids have been here and even if there was, it would be in the quiet confines of a locked bedroom on the other side of the house. I don't expect this man to suddenly start fathering my children but comments made by my daughter when she first met him, made me realise that she had not seen a very healthy relationship before. This is something I want for my children. I'm not old fashioned - I just worded it incorrectly. My daughter is actually not unhappy that I'm seeing him. You can analyse that comment if you like but when you're daughter tells you out of the blue that she likes that I'm smiling again and encourages me to see him, it is said genuinely. My dd is very direct and doesn't sugar coat anything so when she says something, you know it's true. I haven't and would never parade different men into my house. I do like this man very much though due to my ex's delusions, I'm very wary of people. I have not let my guard down at all and not once on my posts have I sung about how 'wonderful' he is. I have merely pointed out his admirable qualities. I don't believe there is any selfishness in wanting to share your life with another adult. I also have no intention of blending our families anytime soon - we are both very aware of the realities with kids of our ages. I started this relationship on the advice of my counselor as a distraction from my long lasting grief over past events. There was no shagging, sorry to report - just a nice friendship. As it turned out we had a lot in common and we are keen to see where it goes. I was a mess before I met him. And no, I am not telling people to get a man to be happy but for me, meeting him has been good for everyone. I'm a much better parent when I'm not engulfed with grief. We have struggled with the distance a little because his shift work means he's sleeping while I'm working and vice versa. Add the fact that he has his daughter every day and night that he doesn't work and it does make it difficult to see each other. Despite that, we feel like best friends - lots of texting and phone chats are also a way to get to know someone. That should summarise the facts. My question was simple. I was unsure if I was being reasonable about having them stay. Some of the answers were very helpful, thank you. The mean spirited ones were also interesting but it makes me sad that we live in such a negative, cynical world.

It's great that your daughter is happy that you are seeing him. In that case surely it's best to respect her wishes about him not staying at your home until such time as she feels comfortable?

I don't think anybody was mean or cynical. And most of the people talking about sex were being disingenuous, as that was not the concern that posters were raising. It was about at what point it's appropriate to involve your children in a relationship and the consensus seems to be that 8 months is waaaayyyy too soon, even on a small scale.

So enjoy seeing him but keep your kids out of it for another year or so, then see where you are? What's the rush? Please listen to your daughter and don't push any boundaries she's not happy with regarding day to day family life or him staying overnight.

I hope it works out for you.

The tone of the vast majority of the comments on this thread is very much in favour of mummy martyrdom. Where do you draw the line, if you have no time for it?

Where? I, and others, specifically said that was a bad thing. Who was posting in favour of martyrdom?