I've had 2 jabs, but I defend to the death your right to decline the vaccine.

[ThatSchoolOfficeLady]

I might put my arguments about science and social responsibility, but I'll listen properly to your counter arguments. It's your body and your choice.

@flippertygibbit

I am double vaccinated but have no issue with those who aren't (including my DP) - their body, their choice and not my business to judge. Actually feel a bit of a fool for having it once they started spouting about boosters..........I won't be taking that.

So you thin’ the yearly flu jab is nonsense then? It works. Flu variants get round it. We revaccinate with an adapted vaccine. Nothing unusual or to make you feel a fool there.

Well.. when the long term effects of those billions of people have made themselves known. The vaccine hasn’t been tested for long term effects, unlike other vaccines so I my mind that aspect makes this generation of adults getting it guinea pigs. I’m not saying I won’t get it - but just that any long term impacts haven’t been investigated and so I can certainly see why one might decline. My children will NOT be having it

@ThatSchoolOfficeLady

Folk who decline are a small minority. We can reach herd immunity without them.

This is actually not true at all and that’s what scares me the most for the future. If those declining the vaccine or who genuinely can’t have it made up a small percentage I wouldn’t be overly concerned but it would appear now that it’s not a small percentage and quite frankly that’s quite frightening about the future status of the pandemic.

In fact one reason the UK has a high vaccine take up is precisely because it is not compulsory (weirdly). So actually keeping it voluntary means more people have the vaccine.

@cardibach I'm hoping it's true that they are planning to give the annual flu and covid jabs at the same appointment. It will make life a bit easier. I'm curious about what percentage of the population will decline their covid vaccine offer once it's been offered to everyone. Anecdotally very few folk I know have made the choice not to have it, although I'm sure the spread of those declining varies enormously across the whole country, across age groups etc.

Well.. when the long term effects of those billions of people have made themselves known. The vaccine hasn’t been tested for long term effects

Vaccines don't really work like that. They don't hang around in your system forevermore just floating about until all of a sudden, eight years down the line, you grow a third arm. They come into your system, tell your immune system what they need to do should the virus come a-knocking so it's primed to respond, and then they get filtered out of your system/dissipate. Side effects tend to show up relatively quickly within a few minutes or few weeks of the vaccine being given.

I'm hoping it's true that they are planning to give the annual flu and covid jabs at the same appointment. It will make life a bit easier

I think this will definitely be the case. I also think in a year two it'll be like the flu jab where you can get it from high street pharmacies as well as your GP and those who don't qualify for it free on the NHS will be able to pay a tenner or thereabouts to have it done if they want it. I think in another few years they'll work put how to have them both in the same jab and you'll just get one flu and covid combined shot in your upper arm.

I am double vaccinated but have no issue with those who aren't (including my DP) - their body, their choice and not my business to judge.

Actually if you are an advocate of free speach (which the OP has alluded to in their quote, despite her not knowing about the mutation prospects) then you should also defend the right for people to critise those who are not vacinated.

That is how free speach works.

The usual come back is that free speach does not mean free from consequences, but the difference in this scenario is that those not being vaccinated are potentially introducing the consequences.

I've had the jab.
I can't get that excited about it though. Sooner or later our exploitation of animals will generate an even deadliest pandemic. Would be far more impressed by people taking steps to stop mega farm expansion etc. that will almost certainly lead to the next one, instead of a couple of pricks.

For the record my money's on a western chicken farm for the next one.

I can't get that excited about it though. Sooner or later our exploitation of animals will generate an even deadliest pandemic. Would be far more impressed by people taking steps to stop mega farm expansion etc. that will almost certainly lead to the next one, instead of a couple of pricks.

This is peak veganism!

Well done for shoe horning this into an unrelated topic.

Without wanting to derail, this virus wasn't because of farming or anything of the sort.

Well actually, the USA outsourced mega FF farms to China. Which pushed local farmers out of business. Into the forest. Out of which the exotic meat industry was born.
So yes it is a collective responsibility.
I didn't say veganism was the answer. Even reducing and campaigning for decent welfare would help prevent the next one.
And there will be a next one.

As I said, my money's on chickens.

Well actually, the USA outsourced mega FF farms to China. Which pushed local farmers out of business. Into the forest. Out of which the exotic meat industry was born.

I would suggest you spend even a quick 10 mins donig basic google searches instead of trying to state the chinese exotic meant industry was born out of USA outsourcing, I will give you hint, start with 'great leap forward'

This is derailing the thread, but still well done for baiting me.

Or I could just look at national geographic.

I give it till 2030 maximum.

Or I could just look at national geographic.

Obvious troll is obvious.

Your reading comprehension is lacking I see, still if you can cite a national geographic article that states Chinese exotic meat industry is a direct result of the US outsourcing I would love to read it.

I also agree that it should be a choice. Not quite sure why, given that we legislate against many forms of stupidity (usually relating to driving) but there you go.

@murbblurb

I also agree that it should be a choice. Not quite sure why, given that we legislate against many forms of stupidity (usually relating to driving) but there you go.

I guess I'm trying to say that dismissing people as stupid, or patronising them by calling them Honey as a pp did isn't right. By all means put the argument for vaccination but also actively listen to the reasons people don't want it without being insulting to them. This would encourage rational debate and discussion around the subject. Calling someone stupid is likely to stifle discussion as people with different views just won't engage and I don't blame them.

@Justanotherlurker

I am double vaccinated but have no issue with those who aren't (including my DP) - their body, their choice and not my business to judge.

Actually if you are an advocate of free speach (which the OP has alluded to in their quote, despite her not knowing about the mutation prospects) then you should also defend the right for people to critise those who are not vacinated.

That is how free speach works.

The usual come back is that free speach does not mean free from consequences, but the difference in this scenario is that those not being vaccinated are potentially introducing the consequences.

It's not a weakness to discover new information through discussion and debate, it's a strength. Critical thinking allows one to examine new information and consider its merits.

I also agree that it should be a choice. Not quite sure why, given that we legislate against many forms of stupidity (usually relating to driving) but there you go.

I am disregarding your 'Not sure why' part of your statement as you don't seem to have a grasp of why the world has been in lockdown for over a year.

But if you agree that it is a choice then you should also agree that people have the right to critise that choice?

Because this 'free speach' angle is not being presented in the usual 'not being free from consequences' way.

Well of course.

You have the right to make your own decisions, including stupid ones. You have the right to call googling ‘doing research’ and to make decisions based on no understanding of science at all.

Why would this even need to be said? Nobody has suggested otherwise. It’s a constant event if you work in health care - people make silly decisions but they’re competent adults and allowed to. Really not a new situation at all.

Well it really depends.

What impact will the unvaxxed have on the hospital system?

Because if that turns out to be significant and the rest of us face a choice of more lockdowns or a non functioning health service because of those who won’t be vaxxed, then, I won’t too happy about that situation.

And before anyone says don’t worry that won’t happen, we really don’t know that yet.

You have the right to decline, but you don't have the right to zero consequences of declining. If choosing to not get the jab means losing your job and not being able to visit (insert country), tough luck.

I support the right to choose but I also support businesses etc right to insist that employees are vaccinated to protect other employees, customers etc, so if you choose not to be then you can forgo employment (obviously with caveats for those genuinely unable to be vaccinated)

It's not a weakness to discover new information through discussion and debate, it's a strength. Critical thinking allows one to examine new information and consider its merits.

I was highlighting your white knighting for something that you clearly didn't understand the complexity of, I also note you haven't really answered or stood by your free speech quote, you should equally stand by those who wish to critise those who don't take the vacine.

It seems you have taken a stance on a niche situation that you don't even fully understand and tried to call out the opposing side under the guise of free speech, which you clearly don't understand.

@UnfriendlyFriendly

I agree. I'm double vaccinated and I support anyone's right to decline the vaccine. I also support anyone's right to criticise those who do decline the vaccine for being selfish and uninformed (99.9% of the time).

Is it uninformed when I ask my GP what interactions the vaccine could have with my current medication and they decline to answer?

@motogogo

I support the right to choose but I also support businesses etc right to insist that employees are vaccinated to protect other employees, customers etc, so if you choose not to be then you can forgo employment (obviously with caveats for those genuinely unable to be vaccinated)

You don’t support the right to choose.

Ps vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting the vaccine or passing it on. Testing and social distancing is protecting everyone.