I've had 2 jabs, but I defend to the death your right to decline the vaccine.

[ThatSchoolOfficeLady]

I might put my arguments about science and social responsibility, but I'll listen properly to your counter arguments. It's your body and your choice.

I feel like this is a double-win for vaccinated people: 1) protected from covid, 2) protected from whacko-scammers.

I wish mumsnet had a like button

@callmemaybee

I’m early 20s so haven’t been offered the vaccine yet. However I am a keyworker and could get it through work but I haven’t yet.

I’m not anti-vax at all, but hearing claims that certain vaccine brands could be more potentially harmful to me than COVID itself doesn’t fill me with confidence

Hopefully when my turn comes with the NHS, more research is available so I don’t feel like a guinea pig

Guinea Pig?? Honey, more than 2 billion vaccines have been given. You are nothing special.

ThatSchoolOfficeLady

Toottooot
What’s your take on ‘alternative therapists’ who will no longer see clients who are vaccinated?
Depends. How many of them are there? What therapies? Again, sounds like a tiny number of folk.

I’m wondering where you’ve got this from? Who’s declining to treat clients? I haven’t heard this at all, and it sounds a bit scare-mongery. At the least they’ll be rowing themselves out of treating the majority of adults, which just doesn’t sound like good business sense to me. I suppose there could be the odd crackpot, but I’m not buying it’s a large number.

Thank you. Same here (though I'm still waiting for my second dose).

Bit like voting Tory too - I might judge you for doing it but I'll defend your right to.

This all feels a bit too try hard, op.

Would you actually fight to death? Reel it in a bit.

I defend people’s right to decline the vaccine but I also think that if the consequence of that is you can’t do certain things or go certain places then that should be accepted too

@Totallydefeated

ThatSchoolOfficeLady

Toottooot
What’s your take on ‘alternative therapists’ who will no longer see clients who are vaccinated?
Depends. How many of them are there? What therapies? Again, sounds like a tiny number of folk.

I’m wondering where you’ve got this from? Who’s declining to treat clients? I haven’t heard this at all, and it sounds a bit scare-mongery. At the least they’ll be rowing themselves out of treating the majority of adults, which just doesn’t sound like good business sense to me. I suppose there could be the odd crackpot, but I’m not buying it’s a large number.

I saw it on their own Instagram page. It’s a place in Glasgow, can’t remember the name and won’t go looking for it to give them more publicity.

Oh bravo. I'm clapping for you. Such a hero freedom fighter.

@ThatSchoolOfficeLady

It's a quote about the principles of freedom of speech - Evelyn Beatrice Hall on Voltaire.

Hate to be pedantic I don't, I love it but it's not a quote. It's paraphrasing.

@belimoo

Oh bravo. I'm clapping for you. Such a hero freedom fighter.

It's this kind of aggression, the lack of civility in the debate, that prompted me to post actually. People don't seem to be able to discuss issues with respect, to argue it out without getting personal or angry. I find it quite sad.

No you wouldn’t. You might, at most, defend it so far as a public protest or strongly worded petition.

As I've had Covid and both vaccinations I don't particularly care if other people choose not to.

They aren't (presumably) putting me at risk, so I don't really care if they want to risk catching it themselves. I think it's up to individuals to choose what they put in their body.

If you are unable to have the vaccination yourself due to whatever reason, I don't think you can insist that everyone else does so instead.

Fair play

I have liver disease and I am worried about the impact of the vaccine on my health rightly or wrongly - I've had covid and didn't feel ill or have any major issues. I know the argument about herd immunity so I'm torn.

I've never had a flu jab before, but people who are vulnerable to getting ill from the flu can make the choice whether to get it or not.

I'm grateful the death rate is so low and I'm not sold on risking my own health for the wider benefit of herd immunity. The vaccine had been approved for emergency use - and rightly so but the only study on the Long term effect is ongoing now.

I get the reasons behind the fast roll out but I feel like older people around the world would benefit more from a vaccine than people without medical conditions under 40 in the U.K. ?

@User27392

No you wouldn’t. You might, at most, defend it so far as a public protest or strongly worded petition.

It's a quote paraphrasing an author about the principles of freedom of speech.

I understand the origin of the phrase. I just don’t like silly hyperbole.

It honestly doesnt impact those of us who choose to be vaccinated. Those who are not can decide to take the risk of getting COVID or they can shield for the next couple of years ...you do you. At least we can get on with our lives.

@Aquafizzle

It honestly doesnt impact those of us who choose to be vaccinated. Those who are not can decide to take the risk of getting COVID or they can shield for the next couple of years ...you do you. At least we can get on with our lives.

This is true to an extent, but people choosing not to get vaccinated could impact on the rest of us depending on the numbers. Hopefully it will be a sufficiently small number that herd immunity won’t be compromised, but the more people refuse the vaccine the more tenuous herd immunity is, and the greater the risk is of the NHS being overwhelmed. We’ve already seen this year the devastating consequences of people missing out on non-Covid healthcare, and that could continue if NHS resources continue to be required to treat those who have Covid because they’ve refused vaccines (or can’t have vaccines for valid reasons and weren’t protected by herd immunity).

I don’t believe in forced vaccinations because I believe in bodily autonomy, but this is why I find posts like the OP’s about ‘defending’ this choice frustrating. If you have no medical reason for not having the vaccination, it’s a selfish choice that could harm others. Why would anyone want to defend that?

@User27392 it's not the choice I'm defending though, it's the right to make the choice without being shouted down or attacked. I would argue respectfully with people who decline, but I would also listen to their views and think about why they might be saying what they are saying.

I think there's a bit of a misconception here - quite a few people have said that they don't care if other people don't vaccinate because it won't impact them because they are vaccinated - that's not quite how it works.
Each time Covid (or any other virus) is transmitted from one person to the next, it can change slightly and mutate. That's how we ended up with the different variants. So, if you're vaccinated against the current variants and Covid transmits from one unvaccinated person to another unvaccinated person, Covid could mutate into a variant that your vaccine doesn't protect you from. The more people who aren't vaccinated, the more Covid is transmitted and the greater the chance that it will mutate into a variant that you're not protected against. So, unfortunately, being vaccinated doesn't mean that other people not vaccinated won't impact you.

@UnfriendlyFriendly won't covid just become endemic and, as with flu, an annual booster for vulnerables will be given in an attempt to anticipate variants. We won't ever see it completely eradicated will we?

[quote ThatSchoolOfficeLady]@UnfriendlyFriendly won't covid just become endemic and, as with flu, an annual booster for vulnerables will be given in an attempt to anticipate variants. We won't ever see it completely eradicated will we?[/quote]
It depends. If everyone (or almost everyone) gets the vaccine before Covid can mutate into a variant that can beat the vaccine then there'd be no need for a booster and Covid would be eradicated (in very simplified terms). In all likelihood, Covid will mutate before enough people are vaccinated. The reason why flu is needed every year is because not everyone is vaccinated so it transmits through the people who aren't vaccinated and mutates.

[quote ThatSchoolOfficeLady]@UnfriendlyFriendly won't covid just become endemic and, as with flu, an annual booster for vulnerables will be given in an attempt to anticipate variants. We won't ever see it completely eradicated will we?[/quote]
Think about a virus like a lump of play dough - being passed from person to person. As it's thrown from one person to the next, it changes shape very slightly with their touch - that's Covid mutating every time it's transmitted. So, when you're vaccinated, it's like having a chainlink fence around you and the virus is the wrong shape to get through the fence - so you can't touch it and it can't touch you. If everyone is vaccinated then no one is touching the play dough, it can't transmit and it can't mutate because the play dough can't change shape on its own. This is how diseases get eradicated. However, if only some people are vaccinated, everyone else could keep passing the play dough around until the play dough changes shape enough that it can get through the chain link fence and the vaccinated people are no longer protected. The more unvaccinated people there are, the quicker the virus will change shape. That's what happens with the annual flu jab.

I agree that people choosing not to vaccinate does affect others. If the hospitals are full of people sick with Covid others can't get treatment for their cancer, hip replacement etc. Medics and care staff also have to put themselves through physical and emotional discomfort, and risk of transmission, caring for vaccine refusers. I wouldn't physically force anyone but I think it is an anti-social choice and if you choose not to vaccinate I don't care if you cannot access certain leisure, hospitality, tourism etc. People that cannot medically have the vaccine should not be restricted at all though. If everyone that can have the vaccines does we can protect those that can't by reduced transmission.