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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Friend and I not speaking - who should apologise?

306 replies

AudacityBaby · 04/06/2021 11:10

I’ve NC for this but a regular user.

I’m infertile and my friend has a toddler and a baby.

I was complaining to her about a work policy that was introduced in March 2020 that allowed those with caring responsibilities to halve their hours on full pay, whilst expecting those without caring responsibilities to pick up the normal workload and additional work created by COVID for no extra pay. A great policy but a pretty unbalanced impact.

The trade off we were told was that everyone working half hours would have to use their annual leave so that those working overtime could be prioritised for longer periods of rest. The problem is that this wasn’t enforced by the employer and now those who are back are insisting on using their annual leave for large stretches of the summer to cover childcare. Which is fair enough, but once again those without are being told that they’ll need to cover and that their break can be September onwards.

Anyway… I was saying to my friend that I’m knackered now and don’t know whether it’s time to look for another job. She said that in her view people with kids are doing something useful for society and therefore the role of those without is to assist them in doing that. I was surprised and said that I didn’t consider my role in life was to help parents, particularly - I’ll help others of course, that’s part of being in a society, but that’s not my purpose! I have my own things too.

She said that childless people aren’t contributing to society long-term and therefore they should be expected to help out like this in times of crisis and not try and attack parents who are doing the best they can and providing for everyone’s future. She also said it’s anti-feminist to refuse to help out as the COVID burden fell mostly on women with children.

I told her how hurt I was at how she apparently viewed my life and we’re not currently speaking. AIBU to be so upset? Is this just something I should chalk up to everyone having had a horrible year and perhaps saying insensitive things? Or is this a sign that we’ve outgrown each other? We’re not as close as we used to be and maybe we just don’t see things the same way.

And no, this isn’t a reverse - I hate the bloody things!

YABU - friend has a point / you’re being petty and need to just let it g
YANBU - friend was insensitive and should be the first to reach out

OP posts:
Triffid1 · 04/06/2021 12:09

Also when people without kids moan at me about being tired I do struggle sometimes to relate when I’ve been up multiple times in the night and still have to be up and Adam at 6am with the kids. It’s another level of tired. Maybe you said that when she was feeling absolutely on her knees with exhaustion.

Bollocks. I've never struggled to relate to other people being tired, just because I was exhausted (and I had DS who didn't sleep through the night until he was 7!) This is a similar attitude to OP's friend ie that non parents can't possibly understand/feel as bad/experience life with the same degree of difficulty and it's total BS.

diggingatrench · 04/06/2021 12:12

@OrangeRug

I think what she said was awful.
Me too. Even if that's what she believed she should have kept her nasty mouth shut
Crimeismymiddlename · 04/06/2021 12:13

Friends do disagree, however what a shit policy and we all contribute equally to society-what a very odd why of looking at the world. I don’t have children so I don’t help society and also I should expect to shoulder some of the burden for others life choice-er no. I would deffo get a new job-it’s only going to get worse-if your boss is that keen on it they can do the cover!

MumUndone · 04/06/2021 12:14

@pigeonpocket

The way your friend went about wording it was incredibly insensitive, what kind of friend says that to someone who is unable to have kids? She's also unreasonable by saying that childless people are obliged to help out parents.

I do agree with her about having children being a contribution to society - without a healthy and educated new generation, childless people would be screwed when they reach old age with no younger taxpayers, doctors, emergency services, scientists etc.
But that's not a reasonable point to make in the context of your work policy, which seems hugely unfair to me.

And who's educating and keeping healthy that new generation? It's not just people with kids you know.
garlictwist · 04/06/2021 12:16

What an awful policy. What would they do if everyone without kids left? I think your friend is in the wrong and has ludicrous opinions. However you if that's what she thinks, that's what she thinks and you won't change her mind. Sometimes friends disagree on things and it's up to you both if you can live with this difference of opinion for the sake of the friendship.

cansu · 04/06/2021 12:18

Your friend sounds very thoughtless. If she knows about your infertility this makes it particularly thoughtless. I think if someone truly wants to be a friend, they should be supportive where they can be and avoid commenting on issues which may cause disagreements especially when they have no relation to the friendship. Your friend's role when you said the policy felt unfair and you were thinking of finding a new job was to commiserate with you and encourage you. If she felt that moving companies was a bad idea there were lots of other ways she could have made that point without bringing your childlessness into it.

DifferentHair · 04/06/2021 12:18

Ridiculous policy. What did they think would happen?! What a recipe for resentment among colleagues.

Your friend was insensitive, but I'd be inclined to give her a break because it's been an all round shitty time and she's probably not at her best. Few of us are.

Whyhello · 04/06/2021 12:19

I have 5 DC and think your friend is an absolute twat, I wouldn’t bother trying to resolve the issue with her at all. She is wrong and incredibly insensitive. I’d also find a new job, their policy is discriminatory.

CokeDrinker · 04/06/2021 12:19

YANBU Your friend is a smug narcissist. Tell her you are helping society and the planet by not over-populating it when we have a climate change and environmental crisis.

BlueDucky · 04/06/2021 12:21

Your friend sounds horrible

DifferentHair · 04/06/2021 12:21

Actually if she knew you are unwillingly childless and still gave you a little speech about how your role in society is to serve the life-givers, then screw her if she hasn't apologised. What an arse.

Brefugee · 04/06/2021 12:25

Sounds like a mess, OP. Make sure to work only contracted hours and ask people with children to now pick up the slack...

MitheringSunday · 04/06/2021 12:25

The work policy is incredibly badly thought through. It was always going to happen that people with children were going to complain they couldn't use their annual leave March-May. Also, those without have been treated incredibly badly and taken for granted.

Your friend - sounds a bit as if she is afflicted by the sort of self-absorption that sometimes descends upon new and newish parents. They often get over it - it may be that she looks back in a few years and cringes. Sometimes they don't, though. The fact is that people don't have children as some sort of altruistic contribution to the perpetuation of society. To a degree, it's quite the opposite. Part of me feels a little bit guilty about my third in particular (who is wonderful, as they all are) because by the time she was born I should really have seen the climate change writing on the wall, and I can't, in all good conscience, recommend that any of my children have children themselves.

partyatthepalace · 04/06/2021 12:26

If she actually said that non parents aren’t contributing to society long term, then she is a moron. However you can still be fond of a thick friend Grin not sure an apology is meaningful though...

Your company sounds like a shit show, so yep I would look for something else, but in the meantime just be bolshy and take some leave (or fake an illness)

3beforeme · 04/06/2021 12:30

I have 3 children and my work used this policy. We didn't have to use annual leave for the half days we took. It was impossible for me to work full days with 3 children running round - one was only 18 months so I was really grateful for it. They did this as they didn't want to furlough us - said they'd rather have us doing some work than none. I do realise how lucky we were. And how difficult it must've been for those left picking up the slack. I'm not sure what the right solution would be though.

Anotherlovelybitofsquirrel · 04/06/2021 12:39

She said that childless people aren’t contributing to society long-term and therefore they should be expected to help out like this in times of crisis and not try and attack parents who are doing the best they can and providing for everyone’s future. She also said it’s anti-feminist to refuse to help out as the COVID burden fell mostly on women with children.

She's a twat. Not a friend. Ditch the biatch.

CloudPop · 04/06/2021 12:41

I'm a parent and spent a small fortune on childcare over the years. Always annoyed me when people expected special treatment / extra paid time off just because they can't / won't arrange suitable childcare. As you say, there was a need for all hands on deck at the beginning, but we are 15 months on from that so people need to get their acts together and do the job they are being paid for. Flexibility cuts both ways.

AtrociousCircumstance · 04/06/2021 12:42

She’s a nasty mixture of stupid and malicious OP. If I were you I would never speak to her again.

Oh and I have been an exhausted mother, zombiefied by sleepless nights when I had a baby and a toddler. And I would have never, ever said anything critical or insensitive to my child free friends, who I love. We all walk our own path.

whereislittleroo · 04/06/2021 12:52

I'm a parent and think your friend is a) wrong and b) an insensitive jerk.

Original poster
AudacityBaby · 04/06/2021 12:56

I haven’t had requests for annual leave turned down but my employer has made it clear that given ongoing issues with summer schools etc. that parents are going to be given priority for annual leave over the summer, so that kids aren’t left alone and/or there isn’t a big issue with people WFH with kids around.

I may have to get bolshy but I’ve never been in this kind of situation so it’s all a bit difficult.

OP posts:
PurpleBiro21 · 04/06/2021 12:59

My employer (10-15k staff) had a similar policy for anyone with caring responsibilities. Within my team 1 person took the piss but other parents inc myself worked as many hours as we could. I and another colleague moreso worked around the DC, in appreciation of the flexibility I actually took extra work on.

AL has been first come first served. Employers gave a lot of goodwill with such policies, some people took the piss.

I found infertility and MC for nearly a decade, I now have a child, your friend’s approach is batshit. I assume one of those ‘parenting is the hardest job’, actually I wouldn’t fancy being a surgeon or a carer which I think is harder.

She’s right IMO re Covid burden disproportionately affecting women, but the levels of entitlement and batshittery are strong.

HeyMona · 04/06/2021 13:03

I don't understand why you'd want to remain friends with such a twat?
I mean there are people in my family I'd never choose to be friends with but for the sake of harmony I can be civil to them. But I wouldn't feel any such obligation towards staying friends with someone who's so far up their own arse.

PurpleBiro21 · 04/06/2021 13:03

Further more, parents didn’t necessarily have it harder, Covid struggles were not and should not be considered a competition in my mind.

I can think of many groups (isolated folk, disabled, elderly, teenagers) who have suffered just as much, more or in different ways.

I’d let this friendship go to be honest. When I was battling infertility I didn’t need such attitudes around me then or even now.

Having children is not the be all and end all and I say that as a parent.

redcarbluecar · 04/06/2021 13:04

I’d be irritated by her arguments, but would probably look for a way to get past the disagreement if I thought the friendship was generally worth holding onto- you seem unsure about this though.

memberofthewedding · 04/06/2021 13:25

Your friend need to be reminded that childless/childfree people pay taxes too which help to subsidise her child benefit, maternity pay and all the other subs and handouts parents get.

If I worked for a company where childfree/less people pick up the slack for parents I would lash back pretty hard. Childfree people may also have caring and domestic responsibilities which are no less important to them than children are to parents.